13 replies to this topic

[John250]

Lately my amphetamine tolerance has gotten pretty bad and I’m having the most extreme fatigue ever. Every morning I take my 60mg Vyvanse and about one hour later I actually feel good and normal for about 2-4 hours. The past few weeks it almost feels like I haven’t even taken it. My fatigue is a full body fatigue. I don’t feel like I need actually sleep but at the same time my eyes want to stay closed, my body movements are extremely slow. It feels almost as if I am depleted. Kind of feel similar to taking a sleeping pill and staying awake. I don’t want to increase my amphetamines I’m wondering what supplements anyone who’s had the same issues have found helpful? I am an ultra metabolizer of caffeine so it doesn’t help much. Dmha just makes me feel clammy and jittery. What dopamine/NE receptors do amphetamines work on that would cause this fatigue and what supplements can I take other than more amphetamines to replenish the lost dopamine/NE in whatever receptor it is and counteract this fatigue?

[protoject]

First of all, you could try knocking down your dose by half to see if you could re-adapt to a lower dose. Maybe "replenish" some of what you "lost" during that time. (me putting quotes there because I don't really know if that's relevant).

If you wanted to upregulate dopamine receptors (again, not sure if this would be appropriate), I found Citicholine worked really really good at doing that. In fact, my dopamine sensitivity was actually way too high after taking that stuff for about a year. It changed the way I reacted to everything dopaminergic for a few years. Mind you, I am not a lab subject, so I'm only giving you subjective information which could have confounding variables, but I think starting up on some citicholine could be a good experiment. Maybe not too high of a  dose, and using it long-term, maybe for a month at first and see what happens.

 

And this is also me assuming that receptors have been downregulated which is making you tired, which may or may  not be a scientific fact for your body.

 

I'm not super up to date on how NMDA interacts with amphetamines/dopamine but I do remember back in the day there was this idea floating around about NMDA antagonism enhancing response to amphetamines. The first go-to would be Magnesium. Any form probably works but personally I find chelated magnesium to be a way better supplement than say, citrate. Less side effects, more magnesium effects, and no time and energy wasted on Epsom Salt baths that to this day I have not seen evidence for for raising magnesium levels. Other than that you could try an actual pharmaceutical NMDA antagonist at a low dose, some people 'round here use memantine, though i don't think it's effects are "clean" per se as it hits more than 1 receptor... and it could even cause fatigue or brain fog as a side effect.. however realistically i think a LOW DOSE could probably work good. 5 mg if I recall correctly. Someone chime in on this thread if I'm missing something. 

 

 

[protoject]

Other than that you might want to give us more details about lifestyle, diet, your usual sleep patterns, what are your life stresses,  do you exercise, take other supplements or drugs, reason for taking the amphetamines,  etc

[Dorian Grey]

I'm an ultra metabolizer of caffeine too, & interestingly find it to be very soporific initially.  I'll feel OK when I first tuck into a 24 oz cup of fresh brewed black coffee, but after a few sips, I tend to get the drowsies and an incredible desire for 40 winks.  This only lasts about 10 minutes or so until I'm half way through my cup.  By the time I finish, I'm lit again. My head much clearer, but I can still go home and take a nap (and frequently do!)

 

I'm looking into mitochondrial disorders as a possible reason for my fatigue.  I wake up bright as a button, before the alarm even goes off, but just 4 hours of work has me feeling like the boiler room has flooded.  I'm 62 years old, so this may be par for the course, but my girlfriend can work all day & still want to go out in the evening.  Not me!  

 

The mitochondrial dysfunction theory makes sense to me (in my case) as it's only intense work (surgical technology) that wipes me out.  I start out strong, but run out of steam with astonishing swiftness.  Membrane fluidity is critical to mitochondrial function, & in my case it really feels like they just aren't getting what they need to generate ATP (adenosine triphosphate / the energy of life) continuously.  Mitochondrial membrane fluidity vs viscosity is supposed to have a substantial impact on the energy generating potential.  

 

Glycogen & glycogenesis and insulin resistance is another angle.  The distinct sensation I get of "running out of fuel" swiftly during high (mental) demand has me thinking of what exactly controls the fuel of ATP production in the mitochondria.  

 

It's a fascinating subject that is difficult to comprehend, but I truly believe this is the key to unusual fatigue issues.  I haven't found any answers yet, but feel I'm on the right track.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 04 July 2018 - 05:21 AM.

[Galaxyshock]

Cordyceps should help by increasing ATP-production and DA/NA levels long term:

 

Theinvolvement of cordyceps in adenosine triphosphate (ATP) production also accounts for a decrease in physical fatigue when it is administered. The oral administration of cultured C. sinensis extract (200 mg/kg/day, p.o.) not only improved hepatic energy metabolism and blood flow in dietary hypoferric anemic mice for 4 weeks (Manabe et al. 2000) but also increased significantly the ATP/inorganic phosphate ratio in the liver of normal mice for 3 weeks (Manabe et al. 1996) or for 7 days (Dai et al. 2001) with no steatosis, necrosis, inflammation, or fibrosis in the liver specimens (Manabe et al. 1996 and 2000). Treatment with natural or cultured cordyceps extracts (1 g/kg/day, p.o.) for 3 days enhanced myocardial ATP generation capacity ex vivo in mice by 29% and 32%, respectively, which might be mediated by the enhancement of mitochondrial electron transport (Siu et al. 2004).

→ source (external link)

 

Also check: https://www.neuronoo....com/cordyceps/

 

I take 2-4 capsules of Doctor's Best Ultra Cordyceps daily.

[funkdakarma]

Cordyceps should help by increasing ATP-production and DA/NA levels long term:

 

Theinvolvement of cordyceps in adenosine triphosphate (ATP) production also accounts for a decrease in physical fatigue when it is administered. The oral administration of cultured C. sinensis extract (200 mg/kg/day, p.o.) not only improved hepatic energy metabolism and blood flow in dietary hypoferric anemic mice for 4 weeks (Manabe et al. 2000) but also increased significantly the ATP/inorganic phosphate ratio in the liver of normal mice for 3 weeks (Manabe et al. 1996) or for 7 days (Dai et al. 2001) with no steatosis, necrosis, inflammation, or fibrosis in the liver specimens (Manabe et al. 1996 and 2000). Treatment with natural or cultured cordyceps extracts (1 g/kg/day, p.o.) for 3 days enhanced myocardial ATP generation capacity ex vivo in mice by 29% and 32%, respectively, which might be mediated by the enhancement of mitochondrial electron transport (Siu et al. 2004).

→ source (external link)

 

Also check: https://www.neuronoo....com/cordyceps/

 

I take 2-4 capsules of Doctor's Best Ultra Cordyceps daily.

 

What do you feel from the Cordyceps?

[funkdakarma]

Cordyceps should help by increasing ATP-production and DA/NA levels long term:

 

Theinvolvement of cordyceps in adenosine triphosphate (ATP) production also accounts for a decrease in physical fatigue when it is administered. The oral administration of cultured C. sinensis extract (200 mg/kg/day, p.o.) not only improved hepatic energy metabolism and blood flow in dietary hypoferric anemic mice for 4 weeks (Manabe et al. 2000) but also increased significantly the ATP/inorganic phosphate ratio in the liver of normal mice for 3 weeks (Manabe et al. 1996) or for 7 days (Dai et al. 2001) with no steatosis, necrosis, inflammation, or fibrosis in the liver specimens (Manabe et al. 1996 and 2000). Treatment with natural or cultured cordyceps extracts (1 g/kg/day, p.o.) for 3 days enhanced myocardial ATP generation capacity ex vivo in mice by 29% and 32%, respectively, which might be mediated by the enhancement of mitochondrial electron transport (Siu et al. 2004).

→ source (external link)

 

Also check: https://www.neuronoo....com/cordyceps/

 

I take 2-4 capsules of Doctor's Best Ultra Cordyceps daily.

 

What do you feel from the Cordyceps?

[micro2000]

Lately my amphetamine tolerance has gotten pretty bad and I’m having the most extreme fatigue ever. Every morning I take my 60mg Vyvanse and about one hour later I actually feel good and normal for about 2-4 hours. The past few weeks it almost feels like I haven’t even taken it. My fatigue is a full body fatigue. I don’t feel like I need actually sleep but at the same time my eyes want to stay closed, my body movements are extremely slow. It feels almost as if I am depleted. Kind of feel similar to taking a sleeping pill and staying awake. I don’t want to increase my amphetamines I’m wondering what supplements anyone who’s had the same issues have found helpful? I am an ultra metabolizer of caffeine so it doesn’t help much. Dmha just makes me feel clammy and jittery. What dopamine/NE receptors do amphetamines work on that would cause this fatigue and what supplements can I take other than more amphetamines to replenish the lost dopamine/NE in whatever receptor it is and counteract this fatigue?

If you're a bodybuilder like in your avatar, have you been tested for sleep apnea? The larger you get the greater the risk for obstructive sleep apnea.

[John250]

If you're a bodybuilder like in your avatar, have you been tested for sleep apnea? The larger you get the greater the risk for obstructive sleep apnea.

Yes you are correct. I had one of the worst cases the doctor has ever seen. I have been on a CPAP for about six years now. Helped a lot but my fatigue now is definitely from amphetamine use

[Galaxyshock]

What do you feel from the Cordyceps?

 

Calm energizing male-confidence feeling. Taking it during winter and going for a walk feels euphoric even, as Area1255 has mentioned. One of my all-time favourite herbs.

[funkdakarma]

Calm energizing male-confidence feeling. Taking it during winter and going for a walk feels euphoric even, as Area1255 has mentioned. One of my all-time favourite herbs.

 

That's precisely what I look for! 

 

That in itself helps with libido, I'm sure

[William Sterog]

Calm energizing male-confidence feeling. Taking it during winter and going for a walk feels euphoric even, as Area1255 has mentioned. One of my all-time favourite herbs.

I love the proandrogenics effects of Cordyceps, but it elevates my prothrombin time way too much, it increases it in about 3 seconds, which it is a lot. From 15s, which is normal, to 18s, according to my last test.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5142411/

[John250]

I love the proandrogenics effects of Cordyceps, but it elevates my prothrombin time way too much, it increases it in about 3 seconds, which it is a lot. From 15s, which is normal, to 18s, according to my last test.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5142411/

Does Cordyceps increase hemoglobin and hematocrit?

[zorba990]

Glutathione ( liposomal or acetyl), alcar, and pantethine are things to look at. You may wish to measure blood sugar and see if it corresponds to the fatigue. Extra workout day rests with only stretching and walking may be indicated.