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Long term use of PEA+MAOi: any problems

phenethylamine monoamine oxidase inhibitor

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#1 jack black

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 04:27 PM


Finally i tried a combo of selegiline 1mg sub-lingual followed by 100mg PEA on empty stomach 30-60 min later. The effects for my ADHD were comparable to low dose legal amphetamines and made me feel like a neurotypical for about 9 hrs. I like that legal alternative to controlled drugs (lets just forget the issues selegiline making false positive drug test results). Unfortunately, next day without PEA was below baseline. 

 

Now, we do know that even low dose amphetamines are neurotoxic. Looks like PEA has the same action as amphetamines (on trace amines receptors):

 

540px-TAAR1_Dopamine.svg.png

 

Should I be concerned about long term use of that?

Anyone using it long term? How do you manage days off that combo? My stupor without was too bad even for a slow weekend.


Edited by jack black, 16 July 2018 - 04:39 PM.


#2 John250

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 06:37 PM

Finally i tried a combo of selegiline 1mg sub-lingual followed by 100mg PEA on empty stomach 30-60 min later. The effects for my ADHD were comparable to low dose legal amphetamines and made me feel like a neurotypical for about 9 hrs. I like that legal alternative to controlled drugs (lets just forget the issues selegiline making false positive drug test results). Unfortunately, next day without PEA was below baseline.

Now, we do know that even low dose amphetamines are neurotoxic. Looks like PEA has the same action as amphetamines (on trace amines receptors):

540px-TAAR1_Dopamine.svg.png

Should I be concerned about long term use of that?
Anyone using it long term? How do you manage days off that combo? My stupor without was too bad even for a slow weekend.

I would love to try selegiline to get off amphetamines but part of me thinks what’s worse? selegiline Is neuroprotective and doesn’t come with all of the cardiac side effects of amps but at the same time I almost feel like it’s something that you have to stay on forever if you plan to take it for a while. It seems like natural dopamine production would never return to normal after discontinuing it. I don’t know a lot about it though.

P.S. do you have a link that low doses of amphetamines are neurotoxic? I’ve never read that. Only animal studies.

Edited by John250, 16 July 2018 - 06:38 PM.


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#3 jack black

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 08:08 PM

do you have a link that low doses of amphetamines are neurotoxic? I’ve never read that. Only animal studies.

 

no human studies. primates only:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...2?dopt=Abstract

 

Edit: maybe i'm paranoid, but the day after (and even today, one day later) did feel like brain injury. sure, there was sleep deficit and mild alcohol consumption night before too. amphetamines on the other hand felt OK day after and more tired on the 3 rd day.


Edited by jack black, 16 July 2018 - 08:23 PM.


#4 John250

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 08:41 PM

no human studies. primates only:
https://www.ncbi.nlm...2?dopt=Abstract

Edit: maybe i'm paranoid, but the day after (and even today, one day later) did feel like brain injury. sure, there was sleep deficit and mild alcohol consumption night before too. amphetamines on the other hand felt OK day after and more tired on the 3 rd day.


This one shows benefits:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...6014752/related

I’m not in denial though I’m sure there is some toxicity. Fortunately there are a ton of supplements that help prevent the striatum toxicity.

#5 kurdishfella

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 08:51 AM

does not selegiline also convert to PEA down the line so what is the point of even taking PEA because the  long half life will keep an constant activity of PEA anyway? also Selegiline is a selective inhibitor of MAO-B in the nigrostriatal pathway of the brain. PEA can be broken down by MAO-A too and is produced not only in the nigrostiatal pathway but other places too. Maybe methylene blue high dose is a better choice as an MAO inhibitor for a broader effect.


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#6 jack black

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 01:17 AM

does not selegiline also convert to PEA down the line so what is the point of even taking PEA because the  long half life will keep an constant activity of PEA anyway?

 

really? i thought it was metabolized to amphetamines, hence the positive drug screen result.

https://en.wikipedia...harmacokinetics



#7 MichaelFocus22

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 07:08 PM

1. We've known for a while that adderall and other stimulants are neurotoxic. You will be fine as long as you take a few days out of the week but the problem is you will attain a lower arousal state which could last for weeks or months on end. That's why I don't fuck with the stuff. I'd rather just tolerate being a robot on concerta and the reuptake inhibitor is not neurotoxic. Granted, I've never had any negative effects other than an occassional susicidal thoughts. If you have to pay bills, then take it. Just be aware of your lower arousal state. It toke me 3 1/2 weeks only on 5 grams of dexerdrine before I felt the same. 


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#8 jacobjerondin

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 03:09 AM

Very interested in this topic, and more importantly, what we can do to prevent such issues. As anyone who's read the reports on this combo knows, PEA + selegiline is basically the epitome of bliss, the purest form of orgasmic euphoria known to man. If we could channel that feeling all the time, sustainably and in a non harmful manner, I believe we'd have a major key to the universe for becoming limitless like Bradley Cooper.

 

Now, I believe much if not all of the actual neurotoxicity of amp comes from oxidative stress, so powerful antioxidants should alleviate much of the damage. PEA + MAOI is also known to be highly stressful to mitochondria so I've read that it is essential to take some mito protectors like CoQ10 (preferably a really absorbable form like CoQsol-CF), PQQ, stuff like that. I've also read that one should take SAMe with the combo but I forget why, let's research that more. Memantine should be able to slow/prevent tolerance.

 

The most important issue is that of any reward system damage which will likely be mediated by the opioid system, particularly kappa and mu opioid. We need to figure out how to avoid getting anhedonia from all the downstream opioid effects. I have bad anhedonia rn and it's absolute hell, I'm not sure how to protect the opioid system but this report about smoking salvia on a meth comedown makes me think that using it after PEA + MAOi could be a similarly good idea: https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=669404

 

Any advice or suggestions on all this would be greatly appreciated!


Edited by jacobjerondin, 20 June 2019 - 03:10 AM.

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