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trying to recover from nuerotoxicity/anhedonia..what should i do?

anhedonia depression nootropics

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#1 Andersen

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 12:41 AM


About a year ago after eating a couple grams of mushrooms I started to experience severe anhedonia and depression after not sleeping for three weeks from what I think was caused by heavy drug abuse in high school. I had never been diagnosed with adhd but frequently took any meds I could find to get through highschool while combining it with various amounts of pot, cigarettes , mdma, and alchohol. I started to notice myself changing and happiness fading away but was to caught up in everything to link it to drug abuse. Mushrooms made me realize this but also triggered my anhedonia. I can tell it if I drink large amounts of caffeine or sweet foods due to brain functioning, but just in general i have a hard time doing things like reading, keeping up a conversation, comprehending and thinking quickly ect.. Over time my perception of life kind of started to fade. After eating these mushrooms I started to have or realize my symptoms as I think they were exacerbated. My symptoms felt very strange at first but have become somewhat normalized as ive been this way for a long time and have a hard time remembering what things used to be like but some things i struggle with are:

Can't remember what I just did, Hard time remembering highschool, and childhood, Have no sense of how I feel or what I want, Feel like there is a hole in my head, Can't judge or make rational decisions, No motivation, When I try to read something I can't remember and have a hard time comprehending, lack of Awareness, Adrenal fatigue, Nervous system feels like it’s in high gear: jump whenever anyone enters the room, Can get good sleep, hard time falling asleep, Can’t react correctly or quick enough to situations, Careless/reckless actions, hard time making decisions and choices, Hard time sticking to job, school, routine No motivation, Can’t feel emotion, and Hard time explaining myself. For about a year I have been trying to recover with diet and exercise but have a hard time sticking to any routine. If I drink coffee which I’m very tempted to do everyday I’ll find myself up for days binging on junk food one thing after another behind the computer screen until I’m so stuffed I contemplate throwing up because I just can’t get satisfied. Getting drunk does not even feel good to me anymore. My doctor has supposedly referred me to a psych that specializes in younger people, although I’m weary about taking medicine as I feel it could hinder the healing process or make my situation worse. Lately i havent been able to stick to a good routine at all. I cant stop binge eating junk food and drinking coffee. I constantly feel i need some sort of stimulation or pleasure. Im having a hard time getting into see a doctor. Im not sure whether to begin trying nootropics or anti depressants. Which do you think would be more effective. Im considering trying the mr happy stack (uridine, dha, vit e, and a multi) and then adding choline in. I fear for taking meds as i may never get off of them. Ive also been told to try to carnivore diet. I just want to feel the world again and have my awareness back.

Has anyone else struggled with something similiar? any information, advice, or stories that you are able to provide would be greatly appreciated. Im ready to get out of this hole any way i can I just want my brain to function completely like it used to.

I was wondering whether carnivore or keto would be better to try and treat symptoms of anhedonia/depression similiar to what im having. Is there any reasearch saying one may be better? Anyone experience anything similiar? Im doing keto right now but find it hard to stick to.



#2 Rotundra

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 11:41 AM

Yeah, experiencing a lot of what you describe:

 

https://en.wikipedia...drawal_syndrome

 

So far: Ashwagandha and L-Theanine for sleep

Yoga every day


Edited by Rotundra, 23 August 2018 - 11:42 AM.


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#3 Dominic F.

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 03:55 PM

Megadosing niacin has been helping me with this



#4 cat-nips

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 11:34 PM

Just wanted to say that I've been through and currently am going through something similar, but from long-term prescription adhd med use. But I've been where you are after a two-year daily love affair with coke and pot and mdma and liquor etc. It took a very, very, long time and a lot of environmental/lifestyle changes to break the anhedonia and even then I was still below baseline. I wish I had an easy answer for you, but it's not so clear cut. It sounds to me like you're experiencing some kind of neurotransmitter dysregulation from your drug use. I know first hand that MDMA causes you to feel pretty horrible for a few days, a couple of days after you come down, after the afterglow effect, due to your serotonin levels being tapped out. The binge eating, coffee, looking for stimulation, for me, has always in the past been a sign that my dopamine levels are low and norepinephrine maybe too high (caffeine) and I'm looking for external stimulation to balance them.

 

Theanine is a good idea. If you can tolerate it, try brewing 1-2 black tea bags per cup at a time (use 2 if you're using cream or milk). You'll get your caffeine kick and your theanine in at the same time. I used to drink at least 4 cups of this a day (8 teabags) with 3 tbsps of sugar for years instead of coffee. It was the only natural thing that could get me to think straight. Based on where you are, I don't think you'll get enough out of single cup of green tea.  If you can handle it without sugar, it's better to do so. Constant sugar will wreak havoc on your body, but I'm sure you're aware. Maybe Stevia at first to help you get accustomed.  Ashwagandha could help with your anxiety levels. 

 

If you're determined to go the natural route then I applaud your courage. But try some supplements to give you the boost. From your entry, I'm guessing you're in your early 20's. Don't lose too much of your life in waiting to get better. When you get better you will kick yourself for wasting so much of your life in anhedonia. Give things a fair trial of 2-3 consistent weeks before abandoning it, or taking everything under the sun and not knowing what causes what.

 

Try the Mr. Happy Stack. Keep the dosages consistent. The last time I looked into it, I gathered that people had success with Uridine Monophosphate taken sublingually (under the tongue). The fish oil you use should be a reputable source with higher EPA vs DHA levels. That will help your acetylcholine levels and perhaps your depression over time (2-3 months). I believe the Uridine stack is purported to help upregulate your dopamine receptors. 

 

If that doesn't work then there are the amino acids. You should have an effect fairly quickly to know if it's good for you. I've heard many have success with high doses of L-Tyrosine 2-3x per day and then gradually reducing it until they no longer need it. I've heard of similar success stories with 5-htp. But try one at a time and take them at different times so they don't compete or cancel each other out.  

 

A psychiatrist will probably put you on a SSRI to start. If you have the patience to let yourself heal, then the SSRI may help you as long as you stick to a low dose and are willing to wait out the side effects for a few weeks and are willing to view it as a little boost and not a total cure. Some are better than others and hopefully you won't be on a psych med merry-go-round like so many do. Prozac at the lowest dose - 10mg helps and the tapering off isn't so bad. Any higher than that then I start to feel the numbing effect of SSRI's of where I'm content to just sit there and stare at the wall. Effexor helped at the starting dose after a month, but when I tried to come off it a month later, I was a miserable wreck with brain zaps and mood swings and feeling sick, so I wouldn't wish or recommend that to anyone. But it wasn't apathy.  And it does go away in a month or two. There are others. Your psych may want to augment with Wellbutrin as well as that will boost your norepinephrine and dopamine as well. But keep your doses low and go slowly. 

 

Ashwagandha, Theanine and EPA/DHA can always stay in your stack and you can use them daily to augment another regime if they help. You can take them at the same time as prescription meds as well without interactions.  Try the Uridine stack for a bit and see if it helps. If it doesn't then go with the amino's to see if there's any benefit.  If there's still little improvement, then maybe another supplement called Sam-E.  This is 2-3 months of experimentation.  If all else fails then go to the psychiatrist to see if he can help you.

 

If you can, try to stay away from the ADHD meds. They will most likely help at first but cause you further damage down the road. If you can break through your apathy enough to exercise, then it does do wonders. HIIT intervals with some steady state cardio helps mood and clears brain fog and increases positive endorphins and at your age, it would probably be really helpful. So does changing your environment. Spending more time outdoors, getting in more sunlight. Sleep! But I know that they are only supports and not significant enough if you're experiencing the level of burnout you're describing. I remember taking a vacation to Vegas and feeling total anhedonia and apathy at even leaving the room and feeling pointless in trying to have a good time.  

 

I have more experiences and more suggestions, but I don't know where you are in your treatment and I don't want to overwhelm with too much info. Congrats if you've made it far enough to read through this post. Best of luck. Feel free to write/PM if you want more suggestions or support.

 

 


Edited by cat-nips, 26 August 2018 - 11:51 PM.


#5 Andersen

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 03:43 PM

Just wanted to say that I've been through and currently am going through something similar, but from long-term prescription adhd med use. But I've been where you are after a two-year daily love affair with coke and pot and mdma and liquor etc. It took a very, very, long time and a lot of environmental/lifestyle changes to break the anhedonia and even then I was still below baseline. I wish I had an easy answer for you, but it's not so clear cut. It sounds to me like you're experiencing some kind of neurotransmitter dysregulation from your drug use. I know first hand that MDMA causes you to feel pretty horrible for a few days, a couple of days after you come down, after the afterglow effect, due to your serotonin levels being tapped out. The binge eating, coffee, looking for stimulation, for me, has always in the past been a sign that my dopamine levels are low and norepinephrine maybe too high (caffeine) and I'm looking for external stimulation to balance them.

 

Theanine is a good idea. If you can tolerate it, try brewing 1-2 black tea bags per cup at a time (use 2 if you're using cream or milk). You'll get your caffeine kick and your theanine in at the same time. I used to drink at least 4 cups of this a day (8 teabags) with 3 tbsps of sugar for years instead of coffee. It was the only natural thing that could get me to think straight. Based on where you are, I don't think you'll get enough out of single cup of green tea.  If you can handle it without sugar, it's better to do so. Constant sugar will wreak havoc on your body, but I'm sure you're aware. Maybe Stevia at first to help you get accustomed.  Ashwagandha could help with your anxiety levels. 

 

If you're determined to go the natural route then I applaud your courage. But try some supplements to give you the boost. From your entry, I'm guessing you're in your early 20's. Don't lose too much of your life in waiting to get better. When you get better you will kick yourself for wasting so much of your life in anhedonia. Give things a fair trial of 2-3 consistent weeks before abandoning it, or taking everything under the sun and not knowing what causes what.

 

Try the Mr. Happy Stack. Keep the dosages consistent. The last time I looked into it, I gathered that people had success with Uridine Monophosphate taken sublingually (under the tongue). The fish oil you use should be a reputable source with higher EPA vs DHA levels. That will help your acetylcholine levels and perhaps your depression over time (2-3 months). I believe the Uridine stack is purported to help upregulate your dopamine receptors. 

 

If that doesn't work then there are the amino acids. You should have an effect fairly quickly to know if it's good for you. I've heard many have success with high doses of L-Tyrosine 2-3x per day and then gradually reducing it until they no longer need it. I've heard of similar success stories with 5-htp. But try one at a time and take them at different times so they don't compete or cancel each other out.  

 

A psychiatrist will probably put you on a SSRI to start. If you have the patience to let yourself heal, then the SSRI may help you as long as you stick to a low dose and are willing to wait out the side effects for a few weeks and are willing to view it as a little boost and not a total cure. Some are better than others and hopefully you won't be on a psych med merry-go-round like so many do. Prozac at the lowest dose - 10mg helps and the tapering off isn't so bad. Any higher than that then I start to feel the numbing effect of SSRI's of where I'm content to just sit there and stare at the wall. Effexor helped at the starting dose after a month, but when I tried to come off it a month later, I was a miserable wreck with brain zaps and mood swings and feeling sick, so I wouldn't wish or recommend that to anyone. But it wasn't apathy.  And it does go away in a month or two. There are others. Your psych may want to augment with Wellbutrin as well as that will boost your norepinephrine and dopamine as well. But keep your doses low and go slowly. 

 

Ashwagandha, Theanine and EPA/DHA can always stay in your stack and you can use them daily to augment another regime if they help. You can take them at the same time as prescription meds as well without interactions.  Try the Uridine stack for a bit and see if it helps. If it doesn't then go with the amino's to see if there's any benefit.  If there's still little improvement, then maybe another supplement called Sam-E.  This is 2-3 months of experimentation.  If all else fails then go to the psychiatrist to see if he can help you.

 

If you can, try to stay away from the ADHD meds. They will most likely help at first but cause you further damage down the road. If you can break through your apathy enough to exercise, then it does do wonders. HIIT intervals with some steady state cardio helps mood and clears brain fog and increases positive endorphins and at your age, it would probably be really helpful. So does changing your environment. Spending more time outdoors, getting in more sunlight. Sleep! But I know that they are only supports and not significant enough if you're experiencing the level of burnout you're describing. I remember taking a vacation to Vegas and feeling total anhedonia and apathy at even leaving the room and feeling pointless in trying to have a good time.  

 

I have more experiences and more suggestions, but I don't know where you are in your treatment and I don't want to overwhelm with too much info. Congrats if you've made it far enough to read through this post. Best of luck. Feel free to write/PM if you want more suggestions or support.

Thanks so much. Im trying to get back to basic clean eating, then will probably try keto and fasting. If that does not help, i will try the happy stack. Feel free to message me if you like. Im curiious as to if you ever fully recovered. This is the hardest thing ive ever had to do and its so hard to stick to when you feel the same everyday. I cant drink caffiene or else i cant sleep but it may be better with tea.



#6 cat-nips

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 07:31 PM

I did recover, but it took a long time and I had other interventions and factors come into play. Afterwards, when I went through anything remotely similar to that, I was much better equipped to handle it, although I made too many mistakes along the way. What I regret is wasting too much time in trial and (mostly) error thinking that I would eventually get better without anything, or seeking any other support or help.  I did get better, and arguably even better than prior to chronic usage, but I was altered in a way I wouldn't have been if I had never partaken.  Chronic use does cause damage undoubtedly, but luckily you are still at an age of great plasticity in your brain development, so when you do fully readapt you'll be all the wiser for it. 

 

My opinion: go with Tyrosine 2-3x a day to start, along with your current regimen for a few weeks to see if you have any improvement. It's a pretty safe thing to start with that is effective for a lot of folks. Then move on to other potential stacks. But of course, you know yourself the best and personal healthcare decisions are strictly your own to make.  Best of luck.  :)



#7 Andersen

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 03:25 PM

I did recover, but it took a long time and I had other interventions and factors come into play. Afterwards, when I went through anything remotely similar to that, I was much better equipped to handle it, although I made too many mistakes along the way. What I regret is wasting too much time in trial and (mostly) error thinking that I would eventually get better without anything, or seeking any other support or help. I did get better, and arguably even better than prior to chronic usage, but I was altered in a way I wouldn't have been if I had never partaken. Chronic use does cause damage undoubtedly, but luckily you are still at an age of great plasticity in your brain development, so when you do fully readapt you'll be all the wiser for it.

My opinion: go with Tyrosine 2-3x a day to start, along with your current regimen for a few weeks to see if you have any improvement. It's a pretty safe thing to start with that is effective for a lot of folks. Then move on to other potential stacks. But of course, you know yourself the best and personal healthcare decisions are strictly your own to make. Best of luck. :)


Does one build a tolerance to tyrosine? How much should the doses be? And where’s a reliable source to get it from? I have ordered the mr happy stack so I’m planningg I’m trying that. My biggest problem is drinking coffee and binge eating junk food. I’m going to die if I don’t figure out a way to stop. I think it’s from lack of dopamine

I did recover, but it took a long time and I had other interventions and factors come into play. Afterwards, when I went through anything remotely similar to that, I was much better equipped to handle it, although I made too many mistakes along the way. What I regret is wasting too much time in trial and (mostly) error thinking that I would eventually get better without anything, or seeking any other support or help. I did get better, and arguably even better than prior to chronic usage, but I was altered in a way I wouldn't have been if I had never partaken. Chronic use does cause damage undoubtedly, but luckily you are still at an age of great plasticity in your brain development, so when you do fully readapt you'll be all the wiser for it.

My opinion: go with Tyrosine 2-3x a day to start, along with your current regimen for a few weeks to see if you have any improvement. It's a pretty safe thing to start with that is effective for a lot of folks. Then move on to other potential stacks. But of course, you know yourself the best and personal healthcare decisions are strictly your own to make. Best of luck. :)


Does one build a tolerance to tyrosine? How much should the doses be? And where’s a reliable source to get it from? I have ordered the mr happy stack so I’m planningg I’m trying that. My biggest problem is drinking coffee and binge eating junk food. I’m going to die if I don’t figure out a way to stop. I think it’s from lack of dopamine

#8 John250

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 06:32 PM

https://www.nutrabio..._l_tyrosine.htm

#9 cat-nips

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 09:05 PM

I don't know enough to comment. I'm using the Now Brand of L-Tyrosine @ 750mg 1 pill - 2 per day in my stack and it's effective for me. There are better vendors than NOW and so you'll have to take a leap there and find something. That's probably a decent dose for you to start with and maybe increase it if necessary as much as 3 times a day or even 2 at a time. It may make your blood pressure go up I believe, so monitor for adverse affects with the smallest dose, of course, to start. Stack with some Omega's and a bit of coffee for better results if it's not working, maybe 1/2 a cup, or better yet, a cup of green tea - decaf if you have to. Otherwise, take it on an empty stomach so you can absorb it, or at least 2 hours after a meal.  You'll get the slight theanine and caffeine boost there, as well.    

 

It's an amino acid, so I don't think tolerance is quite the issue. I think for most, it's subtle and like anything, you could have bad side effects, positive results, or none at all. But it's worth a shot, especially since you're not taking anything else right now to try to alleviate your symptoms. I have read that people take it for a while and need less and less gradually until they stop needing it at all, or only use on occasional basis. Just start slow and go up slow and eventually you may feel the need to go back down or even start to take breaks.  

 

I don't think there are any serious safety issues except for blood pressure, but if there are, I hope someone more knowledgeable in Tyrosine can give a better reply.  As far as in combination with the Uridine, it think it could be safe as long as you didn't start it all at the same time and kept dosages reasonable, but I know there's a more informative answer to the Uridine/Tyrosine combo than what I just gave.  More later if it hasn't been answered.  

 


Edited by cat-nips, 29 August 2018 - 09:08 PM.


#10 Andersen

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 12:13 AM

I don't know enough to comment. I'm using the Now Brand of L-Tyrosine @ 750mg 1 pill - 2 per day in my stack and it's effective for me. There are better vendors than NOW and so you'll have to take a leap there and find something. That's probably a decent dose for you to start with and maybe increase it if necessary as much as 3 times a day or even 2 at a time. It may make your blood pressure go up I believe, so monitor for adverse affects with the smallest dose, of course, to start. Stack with some Omega's and a bit of coffee for better results if it's not working, maybe 1/2 a cup, or better yet, a cup of green tea - decaf if you have to. Otherwise, take it on an empty stomach so you can absorb it, or at least 2 hours after a meal. You'll get the slight theanine and caffeine boost there, as well.

It's an amino acid, so I don't think tolerance is quite the issue. I think for most, it's subtle and like anything, you could have bad side effects, positive results, or none at all. But it's worth a shot, especially since you're not taking anything else right now to try to alleviate your symptoms. I have read that people take it for a while and need less and less gradually until they stop needing it at all, or only use on occasional basis. Just start slow and go up slow and eventually you may feel the need to go back down or even start to take breaks.

I don't think there are any serious safety issues except for blood pressure, but if there are, I hope someone more knowledgeable in Tyrosine can give a better reply. As far as in combination with the Uridine, it think it could be safe as long as you didn't start it all at the same time and kept dosages reasonable, but I know there's a more informative answer to the Uridine/Tyrosine combo than what I just

gave. More later if it hasn't been answered.




Should I try an all meat diet before nootropics?

#11 cat-nips

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 04:26 PM

You can try it at the same time. Sounds like you're brain is craving energy, in the form of glucose and caffeine because of the stimulation they bring.  It will take awhile, but in the meantime, you can help it along with Tyrosine, Uridine, EPA, an all meat diet, a quality magnesium supplement in the evenings, and possibly something to help soften the edges of your mood.  I don't think tolerance is much of an issue with any of those things and don't expect an instant cure, but a slow, gradual ascent upwards if you remain consistent, while allowing yourself the time and space to heal. 


Edited by cat-nips, 31 August 2018 - 04:29 PM.


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#12 Hip

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 10:30 PM

About a year ago after eating a couple grams of mushrooms I started to experience severe anhedonia and depression after not sleeping for three weeks from what I think was caused by heavy drug abuse in high school. I had never been diagnosed with adhd but frequently took any meds I could find to get through highschool while combining it with various amounts of pot, cigarettes , mdma, and alchohol. I


Not denying the possibility that the mushrooms may have played a role in your development of anhedonia and depression, but did you notice any infection symptoms in the months just prior to the first appearance of the anhedonia and depression? Infection symptoms such as a sore throat, or a gastrointestinal upset for one or two days with vomiting and/or diarrhea? 

 

The reason I ask is that my own anhedonia, depression, anxiety and other mental symptoms were caused by a virus I caught, whose symptoms I detail on my website: https://chronicsoret...t.wordpress.com

 

As this virus I caught spread to friends and family, it seemed to precipitate these same anhedonia, depression and/or anxiety symptoms in around 10% of the people who caught it, and produced more minor mental symptoms as well as increased fatigue in the other 90%.


Edited by Hip, 31 August 2018 - 10:32 PM.





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