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Mucana, Green Tea & Armodafinil

mucana artvigil dopamine upregulation adhd dexedrine

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#1 cat-nips

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 07:17 PM


Does anyone have experience with stacking Mucana Pruriens and Armodafinil as a long term treatment alternative for ADHD. I'm aware of the dysregulation that happens with agonists, but after treating ADHD with Dexedrine, even therapeutically, that was bound to happen anyway, and I don't know if there's a way back to normalcy without them.

 

Moved to a new city and changed insurance and then decided not to go through the hassle of trying to continue treatment and started armodafinil regimen with some success, but it's been difficult.  Adaptogen, Racetams, Cholinergics, Vitamins/Minerals, help marginally and may be helpful with other health related issues, but in regard to depressive ADHD, anxiety and just being able to function, the only thing that has been remotely helpful is Armodafinil. But not nearly as well as the Dex and with a lot more restlessness and not nearly enough focus to complete any meaningful tasks. 

 

Backstory: [Taken Dexedrine off and on for the last 5 years (mainly on) and trying multitudes of combinations of treatment options with my psychiatrist, I finally stabilized at 15mg BID of Dexedrine. As adjuncts, after trying too many, I settled on Prozac at 10mg off and on to try to offset the negative symptoms whenever I got them, because of it's long half-life, as well as Clonazepam PRN, which I hardly ever used.  Nothing else really was as effective and all the crazy combinations I subjected my psych to let me try would be exhausting to even think of.] 

 

8 months off Dexedrine, and I finally stumbled onto something that is somewhat effective in the short term, but I have my concerns: 

 

75mg Armodafinil on waking

1 tablet of Now Foods Dopa Mucana with Green Tea after lunch.

Multi's, EPA's, Ashwagandha, Magnesium, Melatonin on a mostly nightly basis and Aniracetam/Alpha GPC occasionally to help deal with the headaches and help mood and anxiety.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions on the Armo and Mucana by those who have tried it long term? My whole time on ADHD treatment, once I found my proper dosage, I never had to titrate or take more, or ran out of my prescription early.  My neurotransmitters may have been dysregulated, but they were stable, although I did have more severe mood fluctuations, functioning was never a problem and I was able to be consistent for the first time in my life.

 

Pat answers aside, any comments or opinions on this would be appreciated. My last University class a few years back was a grad level course in Neuroscience, in which I studied my ass off and received an A. But that was a former life, and while the background, is still there, the attention to focus on it is largely missing, or hidden by a cloud of depression, anxiety, inattention, restlessness, or apathy.  Nearly 8 months later, I may have to resume treatment, but wanted to give it a last shot before throwing in the towel and going the pharmaceutical route.

 

Thank you for your consideration. I'm a little sleep-deprived and slightly in autopilot right now, so apologies if this writing has any element of incoherence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2 cat-nips

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 07:07 PM

Update: Been having fairly good results with stacking Armodafinil 75mg and L-Tyrosine 750mg (1-2x per day).  There is something about the anxiolytic effects of Mucana Pruriens that I find too reinforcing for me to safely consider it as part of a daily stack. That being said, if anyone has more pharmacological data including binding affinities, liver effects, interactions, co-administration with a Modafinil product, long-term usage experiences, or in relation to treating ADHD or a non-Parkinson's related condition, I'd love to hear it. For now though, it will go on my shelf as an occasional usage and continue to research thing.

 

Thanks to anyone who gave it a thought.  :)



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#3 psych0therapist

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 12:22 AM

Update: Been having fairly good results with stacking Armodafinil 75mg and L-Tyrosine 750mg (1-2x per day).  There is something about the anxiolytic effects of Mucana Pruriens that I find too reinforcing for me to safely consider it as part of a daily stack. That being said, if anyone has more pharmacological data including binding affinities, liver effects, interactions, co-administration with a Modafinil product, long-term usage experiences, or in relation to treating ADHD or a non-Parkinson's related condition, I'd love to hear it. For now though, it will go on my shelf as an occasional usage and continue to research thing.

 

Thanks to anyone who gave it a thought.  :)

I don't exactly have the literature or pharmacological MOA information you're looking for, but can offer my subjective experience of this as someone who used to take Dexedrine regularly and found a lasting way to get off it (as I found it too reinforcing). What worked for me was copious amounts of Neurofeedback training at a reputable clinic, which got me to a point where I actually felt my focus was impaired by the same dose of Dexedrine (which makes sense, as NF training has been shown to increase density of grey matter in the frontal lobe, augmenting dopaminergic activity). 

 

I thought of going down the route of Modafinil recently as I am finishing graduate school myself and it hasn't been easy, but I opted for true nootropics (by definition) instead due to side effects/possible abuse potential of smart drugs. I'll preface this by saying that NF training made this possible for me, but for me this works well: 

  • High DHA Fish Oil (this is HUGE for people with ADHD - also good to get EPA but DHA is critical
  • NALT (N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine)
  • DLPA (DL-Phenylalanine) 
  • Phenlypiracetam (works very well as a ADHD medication replacement, but some find rapid tolerance and thus I only use this 2-3x/week and cycle it with the nootropics listed below) 
  • Piracetam
  • Noopept
  • Qualia Original Stack - which covers a TON of bases and includes almost everything listed above with the exception of the Racetams - this is a great place to start, since it's powerfully stimulatory and extremely comprehensive and got me started with making my own stacks 

There are also other Racetams that work quite well for me in ways other than strictly focus or as ADHD medication replacements, and individual response to these can vary quite a bit so they may work better for you in the focus department, but for me they're less workhorses and more for enhancement of mood: 

  • Coluracetam 
  • Aniracetam 

I hope this help! 


Edited by psych0therapist, 07 October 2018 - 12:25 AM.


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#4 cat-nips

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 12:45 AM

Neurofeedback training?  Way cool.  Awesome to see something like that work for ADHD treatment.  

 

Thanks for your suggestions and experience.  I've been through a few of them and will look into a few others you mentioned.  

 

Congratulations on your upcoming graduation.  Must be nice to see the end in sight.  My best wishes for your continued success.   :)







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: mucana, artvigil, dopamine upregulation, adhd, dexedrine

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