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Where to start? Anxiety/BPD. Lab tests inside

bpd methylation anxiety depression

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#1 dzidek794

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 02:26 PM


Hello everyone!

 

First of all I want to apologize for any mistakes. English is not my native language. 

 

I would like to share my story in short and ask you for any recommendation, because I want to help myself get better if it is possible. I am looking for answers by myself, but so often I find misleading or just conflict information. I am amazed of knowledge you have on this forum so I decided to write here, in hope I will get some tips in what direction should I follow. 

 

To beginning of high school I was very happy, full of energy and passion boy. I had good grades in primary and middle school. I also was very active kid with talent to sports like running and swimming. I didn't have problems with making new friends. I was very honest, sometimes too much and I hated to lose. If something didn't go by my way I was very frustrated and full of rage. 

 

My problems began in the high school. Despite the fact I didn't have problems with starting new friendships I rarely was satisfied with myself and my situation in life. I started to have very low self-esteem and began to avoid people. I started to being depressed and I was put on Setraline first time at age 17 yo. I have been on it for 1,5 years. Depression was gone, but I was a bit hypomanic. Nothing extreme, just a bit. I got off it without significant problems, omitting anger. After 2 years I was put on Paroxetine after next depression episode. Since then I am on it so its gonna be 5 years right now. I tried to wean off but I've got extremely anxious, paranoid and depressed. I'm on 20mg. I tried to hold 10mg for a year after reading all horror stories with antidepressants, but I was barely functioning. I was so depressed and suicidal, that I didn't know how long I would hold on. 

 

NOW

 

Since a year I am on therapy. Therapist diagnosis is Borderline personality disorder. After my try to get off Paroxetine I'm fatigued most of the time. I can't focus like I used to. Despite the fact i'm back on 20mg Paroxetine, after good few months depression is back and anxiety is killing me. The worst is in the morning after waking up. Pure panic. It gets better after eating something. I am getting very anxious again when I am getting hungry. Under stress I'm getting so anxious that I can't function. Even when anxiety subside I constantly have that "wired" feeling and I feel strong irritability. Right now I'm extremely sensitive to stimulants like coffeine. Tried B-complex, but my anxiety was through the roof. If I try to smoke weed most of the time I get extremely paranoid and anxious. Feel better when abstain from porn or masturbation.

 

 

IN SHORT

 

  • 24 years old male
  • Since 5 years on Paroxetine
  • Diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder
  • Very empathetic and selfconcious
  • Mild to severe depression
  • Strong anxiety (worst in the morning and bad when hungry. Under stress it's extreme)
  • Chronic fatigue
  • Sensitive to stimulants
  • Extremely adverse reaction to B-complex
  • Paranoid and anxious from weed

 

LAB TESTS

 

  • COMT v158m, h626h and MTR A2756G polyphormism (more in attachment)
  • In hair high sodium 155%, potassium 228% and copper 125% and weird ratios like 521% Na/Mg or 2061% for K/Co (more in attachment). 
  • Estradiol - 38 pg/ml (1 min - 39.8 max)
  • Testosteron - 3.5-5.5 ng/ml (1.75 min - 7.81 max)
  • Free testosteron - 23.56 pg/ml (1 min - 28 max)
  • Homocysteine - 13.5 umol/L (5.1 min - 15.4 max)
  • Vit B12 - 527 pg/ml (211 min - 911 max)

 

I would be very grateful for any help and tips what I can do more to get better. 

 

Best regards

 

Attached Files


Edited by dzidek794, 28 August 2018 - 02:35 PM.


#2 jack black

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 02:48 PM

Dzien Dobry,

 

It's either borderline or bipolar, or combination of those, or some other yet unnamed mood disorder. Complicated by anxiety.

Not unlike myself or my family members. Do you have family members like that who suffer and are angry?

Your best bet is Lithium and/or Lamictal, maybe even low doses and not the full prescription dose. I feel good effects with only 25mg lamictal and 150mg lithium carbonate. Meditation, talking to people, friendship, and love also help IMHO.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

BTW, I have a family member who is homozygous for 2 COMP mutations, like yourself. She is quite a mess. Sadly, she refuses treatment, not sure why, out of stubbornness? Now, females have it worse due to estrogen.

 


Edited by jack black, 29 August 2018 - 02:58 PM.


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#3 jack black

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 02:52 PM

you're  welcome



#4 John250

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 10:55 PM

Dzien Dobry,

It's either borderline or bipolar, or combination of those, or some other yet unnamed mood disorder. Complicated by anxiety.
Not unlike myself or my family members. Do you have family members like that who suffer and are angry?
Your best bet is Lithium and/or Lamictal, maybe even low doses and not the full prescription dose. I feel good effects with only 25mg lamictal and 150mg lithium carbonate. Meditation, talking to people, friendship, and love also help IMHO.
Good luck and keep us posted.

BTW, I have a family member who is homozygous for 2 COMP mutations, like yourself. She is quite a mess. Sadly, she refuses treatment, not sure why, out of stubbornness? Now, females have it worse due to estrogen.


Do you think lithium orotate is beneficial in lower doses for BPD instead of carbonate due to all its side effects?

#5 cat-nips

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 07:11 PM

I have heard a lot have success with Lithium Orotate in higher doses for bipolar disorder, but it's harder to standardize the dosing and manage levels due to it's supplemental status. Consistency is really important in any bipolar treatment, pharm or supplemental and inconsistent management would most likely lead to greater fluctuations. There is a lot out there about Orotate and dosing considerations for bipolar and other mental disorders so maybe some research is warranted for OP in that direction.



#6 John250

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 07:47 PM

I have heard a lot have success with Lithium Orotate in higher doses for bipolar disorder, but it's harder to standardize the dosing and manage levels due to it's supplemental status. Consistency is really important in any bipolar treatment, pharm or supplemental and inconsistent management would most likely lead to greater fluctuations. There is a lot out there about Orotate and dosing considerations for bipolar and other mental disorders so maybe some research is warranted for OP in that direction.


Sorry by BPD I meant borderline personality disorder.

#7 dzidek794

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 09:00 AM

Hello everyone. Sorry for late reply but Ive got my arm sprained after bike crash.

 

 

 Do you have family members like that who suffer and are angry?

 

My mother has similar issues, but lately she got better despite lower dose of Paroxetine. Like me she get angry and anxious under stress. Without stress she is happy, inteligent and functional person. 

 

I tried lithium orotate, but I wasn't consistent with the dose. I will try again in the nearest future. 

 

What Im curious about more is my hair analysis results. Mine ratios of minerals are a lot off healthy scale. Based on http://www.arltma.co...s/RatiosDoc.htm my results indicates:

 

1) 13.3!!! Mg/Ca - "Severe glucose (sugar) sensitivity"

2) 1.8 Na/K - "Moderate inversion - kidney and liver dysfunction, allergies, arthritis, adrenal exhaustion, digestive problems, deficiency of hydrochloric acid."

3) 1 Ca/K - "Moderate fast thyroid activity 25-50% energy loss"

4)  24.84!!! Na/Mg - "Extremely overactive adrenals 50% or more energy loss"

5) 4.2! Zn/Cu - "copper toxicity"

 

What the heck is going on? :( I lead a healthy life style. Just don't get it... My theory is copper toxicity elevates stress and fight or flight mode where with COMT polyphormism it heightens the problem even more and we get to the vicious cycle. 

 

Do you know where can I find people who specialize in hair tissue mineral analysis? What do you think?


Edited by dzidek794, 11 September 2018 - 09:03 AM.


#8 jack black

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 03:20 PM

I think you are barking on a wrong tree. mineral analysis is nice and maybe there is something to the excess copper (some people think we are slowly poisoned by copper pipes), but in your case it's clearly a hereditary condition with possibly a component of difficult childhood because of affected parents.

 

you are polish, right? Poland is the europe's champion of neuroticism. probably hereditary and also possibly due to very difficult and brutal history (epigenetics), but also culture/parenting issues, addictions, Catholic religion etc.

 

read more about it and test your personality for neuroticism, free online tools are available.

 

I find this guy very helpful: Jordan B Peterson, plenty of his video on YouTube. I can tell you from my own personal experience, the best treatment is love, stable relationship, and sex.  Proper nutrition (vitamins B, omega 3, low calories, no junk food, little sugars/gluten), low impact exercise, Meditations, Mindfulness, and CBT help too.

 

now, in your specific case, you brain was exposed to SSRI when young, and it will be very hard for you to rewire your brain to be able to function without it. I think it's possible, but you have to educate yourself on the post SSRI syndrome.

 

SSRI are bad (toxic band aid put on huge infected wound, so to speak) and psychiatrists managed to put 25% of unsuspecting population on it, even some pregnant ladies take it. Bad news for the new generation.

 

Instead of SSRI we need real life with real family, real friendships, and real love. Social media, internet, streaming movies, and online games are part of problem, because they pull us away from reality. Religion and tight groups help a lot, but you can substitute passionate selfless and platonic love if you have no religion.


Edited by jack black, 11 September 2018 - 04:14 PM.


#9 jack black

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:09 PM

see this video and see if this helps:

 


Edited by jack black, 13 September 2018 - 01:10 PM.


#10 dzidek794

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 03:16 PM

@jackblack I strongly disagree. I appreciate your try to help but you judge too early about my family or my childhood. I find it offensive. I love my mother, hardly argue with her, she is very intelligent and cheerful person. My childhood was very very happy. I had everything I should have to be happy kid. Loving parents, hobbies, friends and enough money to never complain. I had a lot of friends and still have, but my anxiety now put a strong wall between me and outside world. If i said to you that without stress I function without problems it indicates THERE IS a problem with stress reaction and how my body convert something. I don't believe in motivational speeches. I'm sorry. It's like if you say to severe depressed person "COME ON, YOU CAN DO IT" and it would work. It wouldn't ;)


Edited by dzidek794, 13 September 2018 - 03:17 PM.

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#11 jack black

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:37 PM

@jackblack I strongly disagree. I appreciate your try to help but you judge too early about my family or my childhood. I find it offensive. I love my mother, hardly argue with her, she is very intelligent and cheerful person. My childhood was very very happy. I had everything I should have to be happy kid. Loving parents, hobbies, friends and enough money to never complain. I had a lot of friends and still have, but my anxiety now put a strong wall between me and outside world. If i said to you that without stress I function without problems it indicates THERE IS a problem with stress reaction and how my body convert something. I don't believe in motivational speeches. I'm sorry. It's like if you say to severe depressed person "COME ON, YOU CAN DO IT" and it would work. It wouldn't ;)

 

sorry if i offended you and I'll recuse myself from answering to you posts in the future.

 

but the fact that you said:

 

i said to you that without stress I function without problems it indicates THERE IS a problem with stress reaction and how my body convert something.

 

is totally compatible with a neurotic personality, you have to read up more about it. unless it's more than that and you are a full blown borderline.

 

that video was not just motivational. it's a lecture by a neurotic professor to young people who are lost in life (and often angry and neurotic too). maybe that doesn't apply to you, because you are "perfect?" that would be another sign of neuroticism.

 

the fact how you angrily reacted to someone trying to help is telling a lot.

 

good luck and good bye.

 

 

 


Edited by jack black, 13 September 2018 - 04:45 PM.

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#12 dzidek794

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 05:27 PM

Lol im not mad, but recommending someone sex, love and stable relationship with problems like mine kind of funny. Don't be so serious  ;) I thing it shoud be in opposite order - first try to stabilize, then try to find someone to live with. I am not so egoistic to find someone only to feel better, because I am with somebody. Neurotic not neurotic I am looking for a way to elevate my symptoms, but your advice was'nt helpful. That's all. Now im getting mad cause you still judging me. Have a nice day. 


Edited by dzidek794, 13 September 2018 - 05:29 PM.

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#13 cat-nips

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 07:04 PM

Just read your post again.  You were on SSRI treatment for a few years. They're a mixed bag. On the one hand, we're told they can regrow neurons in the hippocampus of the brain and facilitate healing, but then we're also told that they work by downregulating serotonin receptors (first they upregulate them and then once your brain adapts, it produces less naturally). Getting off, then switching and then back off and on again may have caused some issues. It does for many.  Adjustment times off and on meds can take a few months to stabilize and I've also heard that Paxil can cause a lot of fatigue.  You may need a switch or dosage change, but if you're looking to get off them, then I guess those aren't an option.

 

Few thoughts: It sounds like your cortisol levels are too high, by your description of morning stress and stimulant reactions. Going in that direction, maybe you could get your cortisol levels checked as well as high blood pressure and/or diabetes?  

 

If your cortisol levels are too high and causing anxiety, maybe consider Phosphyltidylserine or Ashwagandha to lower cortisol levels and to take alongside your Paxil, and eventually trying to lower the Paxil if it works, alongside therapy.  Be careful of interactions with your meds and shy away from anything that contains norepinephrine or things that are stimulating as it seems like that's not a good mix with where you are now.  

 

 

 

 


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#14 dzidek794

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 07:12 PM

Ok I will check those things and write an update. Last days seems to be better. After giving up B6 i finally get good sleep. Only B6 made me sleep only 2-3 hours per night. Its ridiculous :D But again something to remember. I am taking now zinc chelate + methyl b12 for test and feel calmer and better. Regardig to Paxil I will try to wean off slighly when things will be stabilzed a bit more. I changed work so it also was kind of pressure on me but I am getting used to it. Thanks for the reply!



#15 cat-nips

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 07:25 PM

Add magnesium to your stack!  Easy addition and it's known to be calming when taken at night and may help your mornings as well.  Glycinate, taurate, malate and threonate, I think are the best kinds. Look it up and choose a good quality one based on your needs.  Don't get the oxide or citrate forms as they are just laxatives and poorly absorbed.   Best of luck!  :-D  



#16 Imaillusion

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 04:16 AM

It sounds to me like u might b undermethylated due to the poor reaction to weed and adverse reaction to b complex. I wud get your urinary histamine levels tested as this will tell u if u r overmethylated or undermethylated. If they come out either too low or too high, I wud then buy a book by Eva Edelman called natural healing for bipolar disorder. It explains exactly wat supplements r good and bad for high histamine and low histamine.
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#17 dzidek794

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 06:44 AM

Thanks Imaillusion for the reply!

Ok I will make that test! I checked my histamine levels in blood serum and it was rather low. I have got result lower than 0,5 and range was 0-6 so it was looking weird, but I will try to test it again this time from my urine. In reference to my methylation status I am strongly confused, because I have a lot of features for undermethylation like competitiveness, high tears and saliva production, perfectionism and many more. But it goes the same to overmethylation as well. High histamine from what i read indicateds rather overmethylation than undermethylation, but again I will check that urine histamine and compare all results for methylation status next to each other so we will think what could be a next move.

 

Again thank you for your time and some tips!


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#18 Imaillusion

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 10:29 PM

Undermethylation is also called high histamine. Overmethylation is also called low histamine.
Whole blood histamine is also a valid test. Often a person will have signs of both undermethlation and overmethylation even though they r just one of the biotypes. And sometimes the labs will show up as normal even tho the person is not.

If u suspect low histamine/overmethylation, another test results that cud help confirm this r Absolute basophils count. Normal is 30-50. Under 30 suggests low histamine/overmethylation. Over 50 suggests high histamine/undermethylation.

Another way you could test for undermethlation/high histamine is by doing a two week trial of SAMe. Clear improvement by one-2 weeks helps confirm undermethlation. Deterioration (e.g anxiety, insomnia, irritability, mania, phychosis, or violence) indicates overmethylation.





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