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Theory behind Modafinil+ Amphetamine

modafinil adderall amphetamine

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#1 John250

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 05:37 PM


Correct me if I am wrong on this theory.

Besides Modafinils effects on other neurotransmitters lets just talk about dopamine. Modafinil is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor meaning when the brain normally boosts dopamine it will then block an excess of dopamine. So Modafinil interferes with this blockade allowing more natural dopamine to be present.

Amphetamine will basically push dopamine out of the synapse.

So if you take Modafinil first and your brain naturally has more dopamine available wouldn’t taking an amphetamine push even more dopamine out so you get a better effect?

So perhaps the best method of action to get the most out of dopamine would be to take Modafinil in the morning, then amphetamine a few hours later and perhaps some precursors at night like tyrosine?

#2 prunk

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 10:09 AM

They synergize almost too well - a caution is more than adviced! I had a prescription for both a while ago, and after a month using both simultaneously, I went to a mild psychosis. Lack of sleep was probably one major contributing factor.

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#3 Galaxyshock

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 10:32 AM

Modafinil is complicated as it seems to avoid being addictive despite the DRI mechanism. When combined with cocaine, modafinil actually blunts the effects of it.

 

Modafinil also works through glutamate, histamine and orexin which probably make it such a clean eugeroic.



#4 jack black

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:15 PM

if it take a small dose of mod and coffee in one day, huge headache from too much stimulation. Mod+amph would probably give me a stroke. Never tried it though.

don't forget amphetamins are neurotoxic.


Edited by jack black, 13 September 2018 - 01:17 PM.


#5 John250

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 07:53 PM

There is definitely some sort of cross tolerance if you take Modafinil after amphetamines. Yesterday I took my normal Vyvanse in the morning and a few hours later I took a low-dose 100mg Modafinil and not only did I get no extra energy but I felt brain fog and spacey all day. I might play around with it one more time and try Modafinil first to see if that makes a difference.

#6 jack black

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 09:13 PM

this is what I mean, too much stimulation can give you brain fog. remember the inverted bathtub shape of dopamine receptors response.



#7 cat-nips

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 04:47 PM

I remain curious on this.  They could be competitive mechanisms, and the reversal of the dosing could have different effects.  If Modafinil inhibits reuptake, while amps enhances release, dosing amps first could be causing NT's to be depleted before trying to store their use.  Whereas if the other way, storing it before releasing could prove more synergistic?  It's a simplistic theory and I haven't tried. Let us know if you ever do and it changes anything.    



#8 John250

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 05:18 PM

It’s odd because Wellbutrin I can tell dulls amphetamines positive effects and it’s a reuptake inhibitor but amphetamine is also a reuptake inhibitor. The positives from amphetamine is that it pushes DA out of the cleft and I assume there is some competition for DAT when Wellbutrin is introduced but what I find odd is if amphetamine is also an inhibitor I wonder why Wellbutrin and Modafinil(another inhibitor) can dull its effects.

Edited by John250, 02 December 2018 - 05:20 PM.


#9 cat-nips

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 06:08 PM

There's probably a very good answer for this based in neuroscience including the pharmacological data on the rates of inhibition vs. reuptake / releasing rates of different neurotransmitters based on half-lives for the substances, as well as how things are metabolized.  

 

If someone has this data, please share.



#10 John250

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 06:42 PM

There's probably a very good answer for this based in neuroscience including the pharmacological data on the rates of inhibition vs. reuptake / releasing rates of different neurotransmitters based on half-lives for the substances, as well as how things are metabolized.

If someone has this data, please share.


Yes that would be great to know.

#11 CWF1986

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 09:44 PM

I know adrafinil blunts the effects of adderall for me.  It's like I didn't take the adderall.  I do wonder if there are metabolic factors instead/in addition to the blunted effect.  



#12 cat-nips

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 10:12 PM

Possibly because of the same effect, as Adrafinil is related to Modafinil. 

 

Similarly, you could try the Adrafinil a few hours before the Adderall and see if it makes a difference, cause you'd be inhibiting D reuptake before releasing or pushing out of the synaptic cleft. 

 

In theory, it could be synergistic, but past experiences from DRI's and Amps tell me that it probably won't be.  


Edited by cat-nips, 10 December 2018 - 10:17 PM.


#13 cat-nips

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 10:25 PM

this is what I mean, too much stimulation can give you brain fog. remember the inverted bathtub shape of dopamine receptors response.

 

is there a reference for this?  not aware of the bathtub shaped response you're referring to.



#14 jack black

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 09:12 PM

is there a reference for this?  not aware of the bathtub shaped response you're referring to.

 

i said reverse bathtub. Can't find anything by google on this specific term now. weird.

 

but, here it is:

 

 

Certain stimulants will enhance cognition in the general population (e.g., direct or indirect mesocortical DRD1 agonists as a class), but only when used at low (therapeutic) concentrations.[48][49][50] Relatively high doses of dopaminergic stimulants will result in cognitive deficits.[49][50]

https://en.wikipedia...pamine_receptor


Edited by jack black, 12 December 2018 - 09:15 PM.


#15 cat-nips

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 09:29 PM

You did say inverted bathtub.  So would that make it a dome typed shape to graph the response to escalating doses of stims?  Cool. Thanks for the reference.  More reading when I'm feeling a bit more clarity.



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#16 cat-nips

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 04:49 PM

JackBlack: Saw the inverted curve and collected a few papers.  Interesting research going forward.  Prefer that they had just called it a dome, though.  Mental rotation just further confuses the terminology for me.   







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