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Just started Wellbutrin

wellbutrin amphetamine adderall vyvanse lexapro lisinopril nebivolol

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#1 John250

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Posted 29 September 2018 - 06:30 PM


Yesterday I had an appointment with my psychiatrist. I told him how my amphetamine tolerance is out of control and he suggested I try Wellbutrin. I’m on 75mg IR 2x/day. He also lowered my Vyvanse from 70mg to 50mg. What’s odd is I don’t really notice a difference from my morning Vyvanse dose of 70mg to now 50mg. I have read conflicting views on how Wellbutrin can increase amphetamine benefits for some but decrease it for others. It’s too early to tell but I feel I have slightly more mental and physical energy but it could be placebo.
Other meds are
10mg Lexapro
40mg Lisinopril
5mg Nebivolol

Edited by John250, 29 September 2018 - 06:31 PM.


#2 Dorian Grey

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 06:33 AM

That's quite a collection of pharmaceuticals John.  I'm 62 and have always avoided open-ended prescriptions.  Are you not plagued with side effects?  

 

I've known a lot of folks on chill pills, and those taking Zoloft have always seemed to be the most content with their med.  If the Lexapro/Wellbutrin combo doesn't work out, you might look into giving mono-therapy with Zoloft a try.  

 

I've always been fascinated how doc's seem to think polypharmacy might be wise.  Sometimes when you're seeing multiple doc's, they all want you on their favorite med, but professional courtesy prevents them from criticizing other doc's prescriptions, or recommending you might drop a med prescribed by someone else.  

 

I'd have a sit-down with all your doc's (one at a time) and ask their honest opinion on whether some consolidation or pruning might be wise.  

 

Pharmageddon: "A dystopian scenario wherein medicine and the pharmaceuticals industry have a net detrimental effect on human health and medical progress does more harm than good."


Edited by Dorian Grey, 30 September 2018 - 06:40 AM.

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#3 Major Legend

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 07:25 PM

I don't think Wellbutrin on top of Vyanese is a great idea. I have a lot of experience in polypharmacy. Wellbutrin is essentially going to act as a super potent potentiator of Vyanese. 75mg IR x2 a day is already a big dose, with very high peak plasma of amphetamine. Wellbutrin is NOT a benign drug it is a powerful Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor (DRI), on its own it is a potent stimulant. Your tolerance is already high, so you may get initial nice effects from Wellbutrin for a while but once your brain undergoes homeostasis you will be like a zombie without both drugs, as you probably already know what Vyanese withdrawal feels like, imagine much much worst, like a meth withdrawal. 

If it doesn't work out, perhaps look at other pathways to attenuate your Vyanese usage and achieve similar effects. I suggest Memantine, a tolerance reducer, cognitive enhancer and a mild D2 agonist, just make sure you read up about titration.

If you want to use Wellbutrin and are determined to cut down Vyanese (a good idea), you can try cycling the two for days you don't really need the Vyanese.

Your brain is designed to automatically detect gigantic surges of dopamine and making sure it doesn't happen again by down-regulation. This is why the euphoria/glow effects of amphetamines disappear so fast. In evolution, a perpetually happy human probably got eaten or killed, so this mechanism is pretty strong.


 


Edited by Major Legend, 02 October 2018 - 07:37 PM.

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#4 John250

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 09:17 PM

Thanks. After two days I decided to stop Wellbutrin. I didn’t notice anything positive from it and I actually felt like it made amp weaker. I Research some more and found this is common as both drugs can compete with DAT therefore making amphetamine positives less effective. Plus my end goal is to be off all medication so I don’t want to start something new and then have to rely on that and go through withdrawl from that as well. What I am doing now to help reduce tolerance is the following. My typical day is 20mg amphetamine from Vyvanse in the morning and 20mg Adderall at noon and 20mg at 3pm. Yesterday I skipped my last dose of Adderall and took 50mg Bromantane instead with 150mg UMP. That night I took 810mg jiaogulan and 1200mg inositol and 750mg tyrosine. This morning with my Vyvanse I took 15mg 9-me-bc with 100mg caffeine, 300mg UMP, b12, 2g fish oil, 3g Taurine and 2mg nicotine. This let my Vyvanse last longer as the 9-me-bc is a MAOI. I’ll take my 20mg Adderall at 1pm and I’ll skip the 3pm dose and use 50-100mg Bromantane with some UMP instead. I’m tired but my 3pm dose I can handle skipping for now. I’ll try this for a week. Then once per week I’ll take 100mg phenylpiracetam at 3pm to upregulate d2 but only once per week as continuous use can downregulate D2. Then I’ll probably gradually reduce the 1pm Adderall dose until it’s gone. Then I’ll stay on 50mg Vyvanse(20mg amphetamine) with the above morning cocktail and gradually decrease the Vyvanse by 10mg per month. I hope this works.

I also decided to sell my nutrition store. When I sit here all day with nothing to do that is when I have my drug seeking behavior. I’m indoors with dim lighting and it’s not productive at all especially for someone with ADHD like myself. A few years ago I was able to completely get off amphetamines with a 10mg reduction of Vyvanse per month. 60mg to 50 to 40 to 30 to 20 and cold turkey at 20mg. I didn’t experience any negatives when I did that and I know the only way I can do that is if I’m busy during the day doing things instead of just sitting in my store all day long.

Unfortunately Memantine for some reason had the opposite for me. It made me seek more amphetamines and other drugs. I only used 5mg every other day then 5mg/day and after about two or three weeks I quit using it because it was making things worse.

I know there is very little proof of neurotoxicity from amphetamines in humans unless doses are well over 100mg but I am still using an arsenal of antioxidants and neuroprotective agents. Alcar,na-r-ala, 7,8 dihydroxyflavone, 350mg pomella, EGCg, Curcumin, 8-10g Omegas(2:1 DHA/EPA), 200mcg selenium, 900-1800mg Pharma NAC, 6g vitality C, OptiZinc, tons of magnesium, Lions Mane, etc...

Another thing is my nitric oxide levels are very depleted. This could be coming from my supplementation of HydroxoCobalamin which I just read inhibits NO so I ditched that. Also my mutations show I lack the conversions for Bh4 and other methyls so I added 400mg SamE and I may supplement with oral Bh4. Added 5g fermented beet root powder as well to boost NO.

Edited by John250, 02 October 2018 - 09:31 PM.


#5 Major Legend

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 12:07 PM

1) No neurotoxicity for sure, this is more about dopamine downregulation long term, and how it takes a long time for that to recover.
2) Yeah that's a lot of anti-oxidants, personally, that's a lot of work to swallow every day.

3) All this stuff must be costing you a bomb, if you can afford it it's not a problem I guess.

4) Too bad about Memantine, have you considered CDP Choline (regenerates dopamine receptor).
5) Brain entrainment + Other stimulants using other pathways may help cutting your dose down, e.g Vinpocetine/Rhodiola/Ginkgo Bibloa. 

6) Cycling addictive chemicals e.g. caffeine, amphetamines works like magic ime. (3 days seems to be the magic number)

7) Alpha GPC and DL-Phenylalanine helps a lot with amphetamine comedowns.

 

Good luck, you are approaching this scientifically so you should be able to do it. : )

 



#6 John250

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 06:52 PM

1) No neurotoxicity for sure, this is more about dopamine downregulation long term, and how it takes a long time for that to recover.
2) Yeah that's a lot of anti-oxidants, personally, that's a lot of work to swallow every day.
3) All this stuff must be costing you a bomb, if you can afford it it's not a problem I guess.
4) Too bad about Memantine, have you considered CDP Choline (regenerates dopamine receptor).
5) Brain entrainment + Other stimulants using other pathways may help cutting your dose down, e.g Vinpocetine/Rhodiola/Ginkgo Bibloa.
6) Cycling addictive chemicals e.g. caffeine, amphetamines works like magic ime. (3 days seems to be the magic number)
7) Alpha GPC and DL-Phenylalanine helps a lot with amphetamine comedowns.

Good luck, you are approaching this scientifically so you should be able to do it. : )


I use Jarrows CDP at 250-500mg daily never noticed much. Maybe I need to dose it higher.

I tried Memantine maybe 4 months ago and after a few days I felt much more compulsive so I stopped. Then around a month ago I gave it another shot at 5mg and the next night I had my first case of akathisia which was awful. At the same time I increased my Lexapro from 10mg to 15mg so I don’t know the culprit. I reduced the Lexapro back to 10mg and quit the Memantine but still had the akathisia for 2-3 more days. What’s odd is I’ve used much higher doses of Lexapro in the past without side effects and the first time I used Memantine I didn’t get the akathisia so I’m not sure what happened.

#7 Major Legend

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 03:44 AM

With the number of psychotropics running in your blood, it may be some kind of interaction that is going wrong, bad side effects with Memantine when you start is totally normal, but 5mg is very low, and should not cause side effects like that. Unfortunately, I'm not aware as a drug as supreme as Memantine when it comes to amphetamine tolerance.

 

You really don't "feel" CDP choline's effects, you just have to trust it is creating new dopamine receptors, bearing in mind generating new receptors is a very time-consuming task which is why it takes so long for tolerance to be restored, sometimes years, sometimes never.

https://stardust.bio...amine-tolerance


Edited by Major Legend, 08 October 2018 - 03:58 AM.


#8 John250

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 03:32 PM

With the number of psychotropics running in your blood, it may be some kind of interaction that is going wrong, bad side effects with Memantine when you start is totally normal, but 5mg is very low, and should not cause side effects like that. Unfortunately, I'm not aware as a drug as supreme as Memantine when it comes to amphetamine tolerance.

You really don't "feel" CDP choline's effects, you just have to trust it is creating new dopamine receptors, bearing in mind generating new receptors is a very time-consuming task which is why it takes so long for tolerance to be restored, sometimes years, sometimes never.

https://stardust.bio...amine-tolerance


Maybe I’ll try more than 250-500mg. Examine states 2g was optimal so maybe my dose was too low.
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#9 airplanepeanuts

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:27 PM

2g of CDP-choline is a lot of choline, which might impact your mood. You might want to use uridine instead.



#10 John250

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:41 PM

2g of CDP-choline is a lot of choline, which might impact your mood. You might want to use uridine instead.


Yes I was just reading about how choline converts to Uridine. I take 200mg UMP sublingual so it would probably be overkill.

#11 Rocket

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 04:34 PM

Did you give the wellbutrin enough time to work? I have been surrounded by addiction in my family and in my friendships. Its nothing to mess around with. It destroyed a part of my family and one of my friendships. Its not my place to give advice, but why not give it a fair shot?



#12 John250

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 04:36 PM

Did you give the wellbutrin enough time to work? I have been surrounded by addiction in my family and in my friendships. Its nothing to mess around with. It destroyed a part of my family and one of my friendships. Its not my place to give advice, but why not give it a fair shot?


Only used for two days and discontinued it. Reasons are

1.) it dulls the positives of my Vyvanse and Dexedrine

2.) my overall goal is to be off all medicine so I didn’t want to continue something that I would potentially have withdrawal effects from when discontinuing it.

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#13 Rocket

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 12:18 AM

I would love to be off all medicines too, but lets face it, the stuff most of us take (on this site) could be called medicines. Better living through chemistry, right!?

Edited by Rocket, 11 October 2018 - 12:19 AM.






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