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Putting together a new cognitive / cardiovascular health focused stack

nootropic antiaging brain health

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12 replies to this topic

#1 brosci

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 10:19 PM


I'm thinking about picking up:

  • Red Reishi 8:1 Extract
  • Ashwagandha KSM-66 Extract
  • Smart PS Phosphatide
  • Magnesium L-Threonate
  • Citicoline
  • Creatine Monohydrate

I'm curious to hear thoughts on potential alterations to this mix that might be synergistic for my goals.



#2 Mind

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 11:48 AM

First and foremost you should be maximizing your "natural stack". Vigorous exercise, good balanced diet (low sugar/carb), and adequate sleep. These are incredibly more powerful and have zero side effects.

 

Then move on to experimenting with a few other things that might marginally improve your cardio/cognitive health.


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#3 Oakman

  • Location:CO

Posted 06 October 2018 - 01:35 PM

Mind Mind's excellent advice, best help you can give yourself.

 

Comments on your ideas:

 

  • Red Reishi 8:1 Extract  - does nothing noticeable, expensive
  • Ashwagandha KSM-66 Extract - never heard of KSM extract - interesting
  • Smart PS Phosphatide - does nothing noticeable, expensive
  • Magnesium L-Threonate - gives internal upset
  • Citicoline - did not like
  • Creatine Monohydrate - maybe helps with exercise

 

My (very different than your) stack H2S / Cardio / Neuro stack taken with an evening meal:

 

1 Capsule
  • ULTRACUR (protein attached curcumin) 300 mg
  • OLIVE EXTRACT 200 mg
  • HYDROXYTYROSOL 8 mg
  • NIACIN 50 mg
  • NMN 50 mg
  • MSM 200 mg 
  • TAURINE 125 mg
1 capsule each
  • EMIQ 0.167
  • ALL-GAR 0.560

 

 



#4 Mind

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 04:25 PM

Subjectively speaking, Magnesium L-threonate is one of the few supps I have tried that had a noticeable effect on my cognitive functioning. Minor, but noticeable.


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#5 brosci

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 05:08 PM

I do what I can from the diet / exercise / sleep front.  It's sometimes difficult to determine what's ideal in terms of diet -- I eat mostly vegetables, some small berries, and a bit of seafood + eggs + wild grass-fed meat, spending most of my day in the fasted state.  With exercise, I think I might look better doing mostly strength training, but it tends to wear me down both in terms of nervous system burnout / muscle soreness, so lately I do mostly endurance activities (which seems to cost me a tiny bit of lean muscle mass.)  With sleep, all I can really do is go to bed on time.

My thought process on reishi is that I'm often looking for an immune boost (particularly against HSV1, where I do get a few flare ups a year.)  In the past, I've used Lion's Mane mushrooms to support BDNF, but it turns out reishi might be more potent in this area.  I've read that it also increases the rate of survival for new neurons while improving the energy supply to the brain cortex -- I've read that you can detect a lowering of brain energy metabolism via FDG-PET in a pretty large chunk of the population as early as their 30s (!) which preceds eventually cognitive decline by decades.  While reishi didn't come up particularly strong in this area, some of the others (like PS / CDP-choline / Creatine) seemed to target this more readily, although perhaps there are better alternatives or synergists (ALCAR?)

Triterpenoids with neurotrophic activity from Ganoderma lucidum.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21671206

Polysaccharides from Ganoderma lucidum Promote Cognitive Function and Neural Progenitor Proliferation in Mouse Model of Alzheimer's Diseae
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5233449/

Neurite outgrowth stimulatory effects of culinary-medicinal mushrooms
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3852280/

Neurometabolic Effect of Altaian Fungus Ganoderma lucidum (Reishi Mushroom) in Rats Under Moderate Alcohol Consumption
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26058418

I like KSM-66, as it's one of the few adaptogens I've tried that seemed to give me both more energy + better rest.  When I've ran thyroid hormones in the past, they were decent but not great.  I've read ashwagandha improves hormonal status (particularly if you border that slightly low T3 / slightly high TSH range), even offering a small boost to testosterone in men.  My LDL also tends to run high, possibly from sub-ideal LDL receptor clearance in the liver.  Ashwagandha increases LDL receptor expressiono in the liver to lower LDL cholesterol via faster metabolism (so less oxidized LDL as well.)  It also increases dendrite growth and neurite extension and slows, stops, reverses or removes neuritic atrophy and synaptic loss.  While I'm not a particularly stressed / anxious / depressive guy, I'm not necessarily very zen / stoic / upbeat either, where ashwagandha seemingly promotes more of the latter state, promoting improved mood / cognition in healthy volunteers.

 

Examining the effect of Withania somnifera supplementation on muscle strength and recovery: a randomized controlled trial
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26609282

Withania somnifera improves semen quality by regulating reproductive hormone levels and oxidative stress in seminal plasma of infertile males
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19501822

Clinical Evaluation of the Spermatogenic Activity of the Root Extract of Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) in Oligospermic Males: A Pilot Study
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24371462

Effect of standardized aqueous extract of Withania somnifera on tests of cognitive and psychomotor performance in healthy human participants
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3897003/

Search for natural products related to regeneration of the neuronal network
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15956813

An Overview on Ashwagandha: A Rasayana (Rejuvenator) of Ayurveda
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3252722/

Efficacy and Safety of Ashwagandha Root Extract in Subclinical Hypothyroid Patients: A Double-Blind, Randomized Placebo-Controlled Trial.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28829155

A Prospective, Randomized Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study of Safety and Efficacy of a High-Concentration Full-Spectrum Extract of Ashwagandha Root in Reducing Stress and Anxiety in Adults
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3573577/

Withania somnifera reverses Alzheimer's disease pathology by enhancing low-density lipoprotein receptor-related protein in liver
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22308347

Effects of Ashwagandha (roots of Withania somnifera) on neurodegenerative diseases
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24882401

Anti-viral effects of aqueous extracts of Aloe ferox and Withania somnifera on herpes simplex virus type 1 in cell culture
https://www.research...in_cell_culture

I find phosphatidylserine particularly interesting.  I've been wanting to try out the DHA-bound form, but its surprisingly expensive.  For the next best thing, smart-PS is described as having "enhanced-stability" delivering phosphatidylserine, a pinch of phosphatidylcholine, and a tiny amount of phosphatidylethanolamine.  PS looks particularly decent in young children with ADHD, but benefits have been seen in healthy volunteers.  It also looks fairly cardioprotective and potentially useful for achieving small boosts in physical performance / recovery, and as a precursor in the path toward serotonin + glycine synthesis, it seems to improve mood / sleep.

The effects of IQPLUS Focus on cognitive function, mood and endocrine response before and following acute exercise
https://jissn.biomed.../1550-2783-8-16

The effect of phosphatidylserine administration on memory and symptoms of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder: a randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23495677

Soybean-derived phosphatidylserine improves memory function of the elderly Japanese subjects with memory complaints
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21103034

Effects of phosphatidylserine in age‐associated memory impairment
http://n.neurology.o...ontent/41/5/644

Effects of soy lecithin phosphatidic acid and phosphatidylserine complex (PAS) on the endocrine and psychological responses to mental stress
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15512856

Effects of phosphatidylserine on exercise capacity during cycling in active males
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16394955

Safety of phosphatidylserine containing omega3 fatty acids in ADHD children: a double-blind placebo-controlled trial followed by an open-label extension
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23312676

Phosphatidylserine and phosphatidylcholine-containing liposomes inhibit amyloid beta and interferon-gamma-induced microglial activation
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17349923

P.S.* I Love You: Implications of Phosphatidyl Serine (PS) Reversal in Acute Ischemic Syndromes
http://jnm.snmjourna...t/44/3/397.long

Improvement in Regional CBF by L-Serine Contributes to Its Neuroprotective Effect in Rats after Focal Cerebral Ischemia
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3692549/

Effect of Phosphatidylserine on Cerebral Glucose Metabolism in Alzheimer's Disease
https://www.karger.c...Abstract/107142

Possible role of D-serine in the pathophysiology of Alzheimer's disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/14751437

Phosphatidylserine in the Brain: Metabolism and Function
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4258547/

Pilot controlled trial of D-serine for the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19366490

Effects of L-serine ingestion on human sleep
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4155056/

These were just the top hits that were easy to reference, but if you dig in, it's easy to bring up 2x+ the results for similar research.

I've been curious about Magnesium L-Threonate just from reading anecdotal experience boards.  I usually use citrate, malate, or glycinate, where I've read threonate has a rather neutral taste (which appeals to me if I can get it in a bulk jar without other fillers.)

Magnesium L-threonate prevents and restores memory deficits associated with neuropathic pain by inhibition of TNF-α
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24077207

Elevation of brain magnesium prevents synaptic loss and reverses cognitive deficits in Alzheimer’s disease mouse model
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4172865/

Magnesium boosts the memory restorative effect of environmental enrichment in Alzheimer's disease mice
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29125684

Enhancement of learning and memory by elevating brain magnesium
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/20152124

When I look on cronometer, my choline is often less than 100%dv.  I do occasionally wonder if I might have a sensitivity to eggs, as I do often feel like I might experience more frequent headaches or digestive issues when I'm eating more eggs.  So, I tend to buy a case, eat a couple a day until I run out, then take some time off between cases.  Between cases, I'm averaging maybe 300-400mg/d, where the adequate index starts up around 550mg.  The downside to extra choline seems to be TMAO formation (promoting atherosclerosis) and possible negative effects on mood, as a bit of a double-edged sword.  I do eat a high fat diet, and I've read that phosphatidylcholine promotes breaking down fats in the liver, where you do see increases in liver fat accumulation in its absense -- I hadn't really thought about it, but my ALT levels have been trending upwards a bit.  Citicoline looks like a precursor to not only choline, but uridine looks pretty awesome, promoting mylenation and nerve health.  Again, I like that CDP-choline seems to improve cognition even in healthy volunteers with beneficial effects on brain energy metabolism.

Improved human visuomotor performance and pupil constriction after choline supplementation in a placebo-controlled double-blind study
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4536529/

Choline: An Essential Nutrient for Public Health
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2782876/

Adequate Intake levels of choline are sufficient for preventing elevations in serum markers of liver dysfunction in Mexican American men but are not optimal for minimizing plasma total homocysteine increases after a methionine load
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2637180/

Effect of CDP-choline treatment on mitochondrial and synaptosomal protein composition in different brain regions during aging
https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/8488757

Short-term administration of uridine increases brain membrane phospholipids precursors in healthy adults
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3020593/

Citicoline (Cognizin) in the treatment of cognitive impairment
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2695184/

The choline pathway as a strategy to promote central nervous system (CNS) remyelination
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4625486/

Pivotal role of choline metabolites in remyelination
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25524711

CDP-choline: pharmacological and clinical review
https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/8709678

Neurocognitive effects of acute choline supplementation in low, medium and high performer healthy volunteers
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25681529

Effects of acute CDP-choline treatment on resting state brain oscillations in healthy volunteers
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25700947

Lastly, creatine:

Oral creatine monohydrate supplementation improves brain performance: a double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over trial
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC1691485/

Effect of creatine supplementation on cognitive performance and apoptosis in a rat model of amyloid-beta-induced Alzheimer’s disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5126215/

Effects of creatine supplementation on learning, memory retrieval, and apoptosis in an experimental animal model of Alzheimer disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4715403/

Metabolic Agents that Enhance ATP can Improve Cognitive Functioning: A Review of the Evidence for Glucose, Oxygen, Pyruvate, Creatine, and L-Carnitine
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3257700/

Creatine supplementation and cognitive performance in elderly individuals
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17828627

Beyond muscle: the effects of creatine supplementation on brain creatine, cognitive processing, and traumatic brain injury
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/30086660

Effects of creatine supplementation on cognitive function of healthy individuals: A systematic review of randomized controlled trials
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29704637


Edited by brosci, 06 October 2018 - 05:20 PM.

  • Informative x 1
  • WellResearched x 1

#6 John250

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 05:10 PM

<p>

Mind Mind's excellent advice, best help you can give yourself.

Comments on your ideas:

  • Red Reishi 8:1 Extract - does nothing noticeable, expensive
  • Ashwagandha KSM-66 Extract - never heard of KSM extract - interesting
  • Smart PS Phosphatide - does nothing noticeable, expensive
  • Magnesium L-Threonate - gives internal upset
  • Citicoline - did not like
  • Creatine Monohydrate - maybe helps with exercise

My (very different than your) stack H2S / Cardio / Neuro stack taken with an evening meal:

1 Capsule
  • ULTRACUR (protein attached curcumin) 300 mg
  • OLIVE EXTRACT 200 mg
  • HYDROXYTYROSOL 8 mg
  • NIACIN 50 mg
  • NMN 50 mg
  • MSM 200 mg
  • TAURINE 125 mg
1 capsule each
  • EMIQ 0.167
  • ALL-GAR 0.560

Isn’t HYDROXYTYROSOL olive extract?

#7 brosci

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 05:23 PM

Isn’t HYDROXYTYROSOL olive extract?

 

I had looked at olive leaf extract / hydroxytyrosol in the past, this article kind of bugged me about it:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16873395

 

I do eat a pretty high amount of olive oil as my go to salad dressing, often with a liberal topping of pitted olives or an olive spread.


Edited by brosci, 06 October 2018 - 05:41 PM.


#8 Oakman

  • Location:CO

Posted 06 October 2018 - 06:09 PM

Isn’t HYDROXYTYROSOL olive extract?

 

Olive leaf extract contains Hydroxytyrosol, but it is not Hydroxytyrosol .The recommended dose for my olive leaf extract (Bulk Supplements - non-standardized) is 750mg/day. As I use roughly 1/4 of that (200 mg), I wanted to add a small bit of Hydroxytyrosol (8 mg), which by itself as a supplement has a recommended dose of only 25 mg/day. 

 

"There are five groups of identified phenolic compounds in olive tree: oleuropeosides (oleuropein and verbascoside); flavones (luteolin-7-glucoside, apigenin-7-glucoside, diosmetin-7-glucoside, luteolin and diosmetin); flavonols (rutin); flavan-3-ols (catechin) and substituted phenols (tyrosol, hydroxytyrosol, vanillin, vanillic acid and caffeic acid). The oleuropein is the most abundant phenolic compound in olive leaves, followed by hydroxytyrosol, luteolin-7-glucosides, apigenin-7-glucosides and verbascoside."

 

http://www.nutricion...om/pdf/8400.pdf



#9 Oakman

  • Location:CO

Posted 06 October 2018 - 06:42 PM

I do what I can from the diet / exercise / sleep front.  It's sometimes difficult to determine what's ideal in terms of diet -- I eat mostly vegetables, some small berries, and a bit of seafood + eggs + wild grass-fed meat, spending most of my day in the fasted state.  With exercise, I think I might look better doing mostly strength training, but it tends to wear me down both in terms of nervous system burnout / muscle soreness, so lately I do mostly endurance activities (which seems to cost me a tiny bit of lean muscle mass.)  With sleep, all I can really do is go to bed on time.

My thought process on reishi is that I'm often looking for an immune boost (particularly against HSV1, where I do get a few flare ups a year.)  In the past, I've used Lion's Mane mushrooms to support BDNF, but it turns out reishi might be more potent in this area.  I've read that it also increases the rate of survival for new neurons while improving the energy supply to the brain cortex -- I've read that you can detect a lowering of brain energy metabolism via FDG-PET in a pretty large chunk of the population as early as their 30s (!) which preceds eventually cognitive decline by decades.  While reishi didn't come up particularly strong in this area, some of the others (like PS / CDP-choline / Creatine) seemed to target this more readily, although perhaps there are better alternatives or synergists (ALCAR?)

Triterpenoids with neurotrophic activity from Ganoderma lucidum.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21671206

Polysaccharides from Ganoderma lucidum Promote Cognitive Function and Neural Progenitor Proliferation in Mouse Model of Alzheimer's Diseae
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5233449/

Neurite outgrowth stimulatory effects of culinary-medicinal mushrooms
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3852280/

Neurometabolic Effect of Altaian Fungus Ganoderma lucidum (Reishi Mushroom) in Rats Under Moderate Alcohol Consumption
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26058418

I like KSM-66, as it's one of the few adaptogens I've tried that seemed to give me both more energy + better rest.  When I've ran thyroid hormones in the past, they were decent but not great.  I've read ashwagandha improves hormonal status (particularly if you border that slightly low T3 / slightly high TSH range), even offering a small boost to testosterone in men.  My LDL also tends to run high, possibly from sub-ideal LDL receptor clearance in the liver.  Ashwagandha increases LDL receptor expressiono in the liver to lower LDL cholesterol via faster metabolism (so less oxidized LDL as well.)  It also increases dendrite growth and neurite extension and slows, stops, reverses or removes neuritic atrophy and synaptic loss.  While I'm not a particularly stressed / anxious / depressive guy, I'm not necessarily very zen / stoic / upbeat either, where ashwagandha seemingly promotes more of the latter state, promoting improved mood / cognition in healthy volunteers.

 

Examining the effect of Withania somnifera supplementation on muscle strength and recovery: a randomized controlled trial
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26609282

Withania somnifera improves semen quality by regulating reproductive hormone levels and oxidative stress in seminal plasma of infertile males
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19501822

Clinical Evaluation of the Spermatogenic Activity of the Root Extract of Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) in Oligospermic Males: A Pilot Study
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24371462

Effect of standardized aqueous extract of Withania somnifera on tests of cognitive and psychomotor performance in healthy human participants
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3897003/

Search for natural products related to regeneration of the neuronal network
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15956813

An Overview on Ashwagandha: A Rasayana (Rejuvenator) of Ayurveda
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3252722/

Efficacy and Safety of Ashwagandha Root Extract in Subclinical Hypothyroid Patients: A Double-Blind, Randomized Placebo-Controlled Trial.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28829155

A Prospective, Randomized Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study of Safety and Efficacy of a High-Concentration Full-Spectrum Extract of Ashwagandha Root in Reducing Stress and Anxiety in Adults
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3573577/

Withania somnifera reverses Alzheimer's disease pathology by enhancing low-density lipoprotein receptor-related protein in liver
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22308347

Effects of Ashwagandha (roots of Withania somnifera) on neurodegenerative diseases
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24882401

Anti-viral effects of aqueous extracts of Aloe ferox and Withania somnifera on herpes simplex virus type 1 in cell culture
https://www.research...in_cell_culture

I find phosphatidylserine particularly interesting.  I've been wanting to try out the DHA-bound form, but its surprisingly expensive.  For the next best thing, smart-PS is described as having "enhanced-stability" delivering phosphatidylserine, a pinch of phosphatidylcholine, and a tiny amount of phosphatidylethanolamine.  PS looks particularly decent in young children with ADHD, but benefits have been seen in healthy volunteers.  It also looks fairly cardioprotective and potentially useful for achieving small boosts in physical performance / recovery, and as a precursor in the path toward serotonin + glycine synthesis, it seems to improve mood / sleep.

The effects of IQPLUS Focus on cognitive function, mood and endocrine response before and following acute exercise
https://jissn.biomed.../1550-2783-8-16

The effect of phosphatidylserine administration on memory and symptoms of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder: a randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23495677

Soybean-derived phosphatidylserine improves memory function of the elderly Japanese subjects with memory complaints
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21103034

Effects of phosphatidylserine in age‐associated memory impairment
http://n.neurology.o...ontent/41/5/644

Effects of soy lecithin phosphatidic acid and phosphatidylserine complex (PAS) on the endocrine and psychological responses to mental stress
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15512856

Effects of phosphatidylserine on exercise capacity during cycling in active males
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16394955

Safety of phosphatidylserine containing omega3 fatty acids in ADHD children: a double-blind placebo-controlled trial followed by an open-label extension
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23312676

Phosphatidylserine and phosphatidylcholine-containing liposomes inhibit amyloid beta and interferon-gamma-induced microglial activation
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17349923

P.S.* I Love You: Implications of Phosphatidyl Serine (PS) Reversal in Acute Ischemic Syndromes
http://jnm.snmjourna...t/44/3/397.long

Improvement in Regional CBF by L-Serine Contributes to Its Neuroprotective Effect in Rats after Focal Cerebral Ischemia
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3692549/

Effect of Phosphatidylserine on Cerebral Glucose Metabolism in Alzheimer's Disease
https://www.karger.c...Abstract/107142

Possible role of D-serine in the pathophysiology of Alzheimer's disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/14751437

Phosphatidylserine in the Brain: Metabolism and Function
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4258547/

Pilot controlled trial of D-serine for the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19366490

Effects of L-serine ingestion on human sleep
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4155056/

These were just the top hits that were easy to reference, but if you dig in, it's easy to bring up 2x+ the results for similar research.

I've been curious about Magnesium L-Threonate just from reading anecdotal experience boards.  I usually use citrate, malate, or glycinate, where I've read threonate has a rather neutral taste (which appeals to me if I can get it in a bulk jar without other fillers.)

Magnesium L-threonate prevents and restores memory deficits associated with neuropathic pain by inhibition of TNF-α
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24077207

Elevation of brain magnesium prevents synaptic loss and reverses cognitive deficits in Alzheimer’s disease mouse model
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4172865/

Magnesium boosts the memory restorative effect of environmental enrichment in Alzheimer's disease mice
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29125684

Enhancement of learning and memory by elevating brain magnesium
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/20152124

When I look on cronometer, my choline is often less than 100%dv.  I do occasionally wonder if I might have a sensitivity to eggs, as I do often feel like I might experience more frequent headaches or digestive issues when I'm eating more eggs.  So, I tend to buy a case, eat a couple a day until I run out, then take some time off between cases.  Between cases, I'm averaging maybe 300-400mg/d, where the adequate index starts up around 550mg.  The downside to extra choline seems to be TMAO formation (promoting atherosclerosis) and possible negative effects on mood, as a bit of a double-edged sword.  I do eat a high fat diet, and I've read that phosphatidylcholine promotes breaking down fats in the liver, where you do see increases in liver fat accumulation in its absense -- I hadn't really thought about it, but my ALT levels have been trending upwards a bit.  Citicoline looks like a precursor to not only choline, but uridine looks pretty awesome, promoting mylenation and nerve health.  Again, I like that CDP-choline seems to improve cognition even in healthy volunteers with beneficial effects on brain energy metabolism.

Improved human visuomotor performance and pupil constriction after choline supplementation in a placebo-controlled double-blind study
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4536529/

Choline: An Essential Nutrient for Public Health
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2782876/

Adequate Intake levels of choline are sufficient for preventing elevations in serum markers of liver dysfunction in Mexican American men but are not optimal for minimizing plasma total homocysteine increases after a methionine load
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2637180/

Effect of CDP-choline treatment on mitochondrial and synaptosomal protein composition in different brain regions during aging
https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/8488757

Short-term administration of uridine increases brain membrane phospholipids precursors in healthy adults
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3020593/

Citicoline (Cognizin) in the treatment of cognitive impairment
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2695184/

The choline pathway as a strategy to promote central nervous system (CNS) remyelination
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4625486/

Pivotal role of choline metabolites in remyelination
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25524711

CDP-choline: pharmacological and clinical review
https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/8709678

Neurocognitive effects of acute choline supplementation in low, medium and high performer healthy volunteers
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25681529

Effects of acute CDP-choline treatment on resting state brain oscillations in healthy volunteers
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25700947

Lastly, creatine:

Oral creatine monohydrate supplementation improves brain performance: a double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over trial
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC1691485/

Effect of creatine supplementation on cognitive performance and apoptosis in a rat model of amyloid-beta-induced Alzheimer’s disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5126215/

Effects of creatine supplementation on learning, memory retrieval, and apoptosis in an experimental animal model of Alzheimer disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4715403/

Metabolic Agents that Enhance ATP can Improve Cognitive Functioning: A Review of the Evidence for Glucose, Oxygen, Pyruvate, Creatine, and L-Carnitine
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3257700/

Creatine supplementation and cognitive performance in elderly individuals
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17828627

Beyond muscle: the effects of creatine supplementation on brain creatine, cognitive processing, and traumatic brain injury
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/30086660

Effects of creatine supplementation on cognitive function of healthy individuals: A systematic review of randomized controlled trials
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29704637

 

I appreciate the research you've done, not doubting any of it. In fact, it is by in large very promising. The problem I have is that when I, personally, try these compounds I get very little, if any, effect that I can attribute to them. What do I make of that? Confusion, of course, and I feel somewhat betrayed by the marketing that companies put into selling them. Beyond the $$ that they cost, why don't I feel all that different  or even good after using them?  I have no idea, maybe I'm from a different planet, with a different metabolism, is a thought that crosses my mind.. So studies aside, I stop when I get no benefit. You know what they say about insanity...doing the same thing againa nd again and getting the same (non) result.


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#10 brosci

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 07:06 PM

I appreciate the research you've done, not doubting any of it. In fact, it is by in large very promising. The problem I have is that when I, personally, try these compounds I get very little, if any, effect that I can attribute to them. What do I make of that? Confusion, of course, and I feel somewhat betrayed by the marketing that companies put into selling them. Beyond the $$ that they cost, why don't I feel all that different  or even good after using them?  I have no idea, maybe I'm from a different planet, with a different metabolism, is a thought that crosses my mind.. So studies aside, I stop when I get no benefit. You know what they say about insanity...doing the same thing againa nd again and getting the same (non) result.

 

I have to agree.  By and large, a stack like this comes out to $100+, and it may move me from an 8/10 to something like an 8.2/10 +/- 0.2.  I have tried many of these in slightly different combinations / forms.  I do notice that sometimes the same supplements seem to yield different results, which could be placebo but often seems more situational.  I am curious to explore other combinations with similar goals in mind.



#11 John250

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 09:51 PM

Olive leaf extract contains Hydroxytyrosol, but it is not Hydroxytyrosol .The recommended dose for my olive leaf extract (Bulk Supplements - non-standardized) is 750mg/day. As I use roughly 1/4 of that (200 mg), I wanted to add a small bit of Hydroxytyrosol (8 mg), which by itself as a supplement has a recommended dose of only 25 mg/day.

"There are five groups of identified phenolic compounds in olive tree: oleuropeosides (oleuropein and verbascoside); flavones (luteolin-7-glucoside, apigenin-7-glucoside, diosmetin-7-glucoside, luteolin and diosmetin); flavonols (rutin); flavan-3-ols (catechin) and substituted phenols (tyrosol, hydroxytyrosol, vanillin, vanillic acid and caffeic acid). The oleuropein is the most abundant phenolic compound in olive leaves, followed by hydroxytyrosol, luteolin-7-glucosides, apigenin-7-glucosides and verbascoside."

http://www.nutricion...om/pdf/8400.pdf


Why not just use Oleamide? LiftMode has it.

#12 Oakman

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 11:21 PM

Why not just use Oleamide? LiftMode has it.

 

I don't get your point? It's not olive leaf extract for starters.

 

"Oleamide is a derivative of Oleic Acid (major omega-9 fatty acid form Olive oil with a nitrogen group, and appears to be naturally associated with sleep; injections induce sleep and activate the same receptors as Marijuana"



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#13 LongeCity123

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 07:07 PM

I do what I can from the diet / exercise / sleep front.  It's sometimes difficult to determine what's ideal in terms of diet -- I eat mostly vegetables, some small berries, and a bit of seafood + eggs + wild grass-fed meat, spending most of my day in the fasted state.  With exercise, I think I might look better doing mostly strength training, but it tends to wear me down both in terms of nervous system burnout / muscle soreness, so lately I do mostly endurance activities (which seems to cost me a tiny bit of lean muscle mass.)  With sleep, all I can really do is go to bed on time.

My thought process on reishi is that I'm often looking for an immune boost (particularly against HSV1, where I do get a few flare ups a year.)  In the past, I've used Lion's Mane mushrooms to support BDNF, but it turns out reishi might be more potent in this area.  I've read that it also increases the rate of survival for new neurons while improving the energy supply to the brain cortex -- I've read that you can detect a lowering of brain energy metabolism via FDG-PET in a pretty large chunk of the population as early as their 30s (!) which preceds eventually cognitive decline by decades.  While reishi didn't come up particularly strong in this area, some of the others (like PS / CDP-choline / Creatine) seemed to target this more readily, although perhaps there are better alternatives or synergists (ALCAR?)

Triterpenoids with neurotrophic activity from Ganoderma lucidum.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21671206

Polysaccharides from Ganoderma lucidum Promote Cognitive Function and Neural Progenitor Proliferation in Mouse Model of Alzheimer's Diseae
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5233449/

Neurite outgrowth stimulatory effects of culinary-medicinal mushrooms
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3852280/

Neurometabolic Effect of Altaian Fungus Ganoderma lucidum (Reishi Mushroom) in Rats Under Moderate Alcohol Consumption
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26058418

I like KSM-66, as it's one of the few adaptogens I've tried that seemed to give me both more energy + better rest.  When I've ran thyroid hormones in the past, they were decent but not great.  I've read ashwagandha improves hormonal status (particularly if you border that slightly low T3 / slightly high TSH range), even offering a small boost to testosterone in men.  My LDL also tends to run high, possibly from sub-ideal LDL receptor clearance in the liver.  Ashwagandha increases LDL receptor expressiono in the liver to lower LDL cholesterol via faster metabolism (so less oxidized LDL as well.)  It also increases dendrite growth and neurite extension and slows, stops, reverses or removes neuritic atrophy and synaptic loss.  While I'm not a particularly stressed / anxious / depressive guy, I'm not necessarily very zen / stoic / upbeat either, where ashwagandha seemingly promotes more of the latter state, promoting improved mood / cognition in healthy volunteers.

 

Examining the effect of Withania somnifera supplementation on muscle strength and recovery: a randomized controlled trial
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26609282

Withania somnifera improves semen quality by regulating reproductive hormone levels and oxidative stress in seminal plasma of infertile males
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19501822

Clinical Evaluation of the Spermatogenic Activity of the Root Extract of Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) in Oligospermic Males: A Pilot Study
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24371462

Effect of standardized aqueous extract of Withania somnifera on tests of cognitive and psychomotor performance in healthy human participants
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3897003/

Search for natural products related to regeneration of the neuronal network
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15956813

An Overview on Ashwagandha: A Rasayana (Rejuvenator) of Ayurveda
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3252722/

Efficacy and Safety of Ashwagandha Root Extract in Subclinical Hypothyroid Patients: A Double-Blind, Randomized Placebo-Controlled Trial.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28829155

A Prospective, Randomized Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study of Safety and Efficacy of a High-Concentration Full-Spectrum Extract of Ashwagandha Root in Reducing Stress and Anxiety in Adults
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3573577/

Withania somnifera reverses Alzheimer's disease pathology by enhancing low-density lipoprotein receptor-related protein in liver
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22308347

Effects of Ashwagandha (roots of Withania somnifera) on neurodegenerative diseases
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24882401

Anti-viral effects of aqueous extracts of Aloe ferox and Withania somnifera on herpes simplex virus type 1 in cell culture
https://www.research...in_cell_culture

I find phosphatidylserine particularly interesting.  I've been wanting to try out the DHA-bound form, but its surprisingly expensive.  For the next best thing, smart-PS is described as having "enhanced-stability" delivering phosphatidylserine, a pinch of phosphatidylcholine, and a tiny amount of phosphatidylethanolamine.  PS looks particularly decent in young children with ADHD, but benefits have been seen in healthy volunteers.  It also looks fairly cardioprotective and potentially useful for achieving small boosts in physical performance / recovery, and as a precursor in the path toward serotonin + glycine synthesis, it seems to improve mood / sleep.

The effects of IQPLUS Focus on cognitive function, mood and endocrine response before and following acute exercise
https://jissn.biomed.../1550-2783-8-16

The effect of phosphatidylserine administration on memory and symptoms of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder: a randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23495677

Soybean-derived phosphatidylserine improves memory function of the elderly Japanese subjects with memory complaints
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21103034

Effects of phosphatidylserine in age‐associated memory impairment
http://n.neurology.o...ontent/41/5/644

Effects of soy lecithin phosphatidic acid and phosphatidylserine complex (PAS) on the endocrine and psychological responses to mental stress
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15512856

Effects of phosphatidylserine on exercise capacity during cycling in active males
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16394955

Safety of phosphatidylserine containing omega3 fatty acids in ADHD children: a double-blind placebo-controlled trial followed by an open-label extension
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23312676

Phosphatidylserine and phosphatidylcholine-containing liposomes inhibit amyloid beta and interferon-gamma-induced microglial activation
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17349923

P.S.* I Love You: Implications of Phosphatidyl Serine (PS) Reversal in Acute Ischemic Syndromes
http://jnm.snmjourna...t/44/3/397.long

Improvement in Regional CBF by L-Serine Contributes to Its Neuroprotective Effect in Rats after Focal Cerebral Ischemia
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3692549/

Effect of Phosphatidylserine on Cerebral Glucose Metabolism in Alzheimer's Disease
https://www.karger.c...Abstract/107142

Possible role of D-serine in the pathophysiology of Alzheimer's disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/14751437

Phosphatidylserine in the Brain: Metabolism and Function
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4258547/

Pilot controlled trial of D-serine for the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19366490

Effects of L-serine ingestion on human sleep
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4155056/

These were just the top hits that were easy to reference, but if you dig in, it's easy to bring up 2x+ the results for similar research.

I've been curious about Magnesium L-Threonate just from reading anecdotal experience boards.  I usually use citrate, malate, or glycinate, where I've read threonate has a rather neutral taste (which appeals to me if I can get it in a bulk jar without other fillers.)

Magnesium L-threonate prevents and restores memory deficits associated with neuropathic pain by inhibition of TNF-α
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24077207

Elevation of brain magnesium prevents synaptic loss and reverses cognitive deficits in Alzheimer’s disease mouse model
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4172865/

Magnesium boosts the memory restorative effect of environmental enrichment in Alzheimer's disease mice
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29125684

Enhancement of learning and memory by elevating brain magnesium
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/20152124

When I look on cronometer, my choline is often less than 100%dv.  I do occasionally wonder if I might have a sensitivity to eggs, as I do often feel like I might experience more frequent headaches or digestive issues when I'm eating more eggs.  So, I tend to buy a case, eat a couple a day until I run out, then take some time off between cases.  Between cases, I'm averaging maybe 300-400mg/d, where the adequate index starts up around 550mg.  The downside to extra choline seems to be TMAO formation (promoting atherosclerosis) and possible negative effects on mood, as a bit of a double-edged sword.  I do eat a high fat diet, and I've read that phosphatidylcholine promotes breaking down fats in the liver, where you do see increases in liver fat accumulation in its absense -- I hadn't really thought about it, but my ALT levels have been trending upwards a bit.  Citicoline looks like a precursor to not only choline, but uridine looks pretty awesome, promoting mylenation and nerve health.  Again, I like that CDP-choline seems to improve cognition even in healthy volunteers with beneficial effects on brain energy metabolism.

Improved human visuomotor performance and pupil constriction after choline supplementation in a placebo-controlled double-blind study
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4536529/

Choline: An Essential Nutrient for Public Health
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2782876/

Adequate Intake levels of choline are sufficient for preventing elevations in serum markers of liver dysfunction in Mexican American men but are not optimal for minimizing plasma total homocysteine increases after a methionine load
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2637180/

Effect of CDP-choline treatment on mitochondrial and synaptosomal protein composition in different brain regions during aging
https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/8488757

Short-term administration of uridine increases brain membrane phospholipids precursors in healthy adults
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3020593/

Citicoline (Cognizin) in the treatment of cognitive impairment
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2695184/

The choline pathway as a strategy to promote central nervous system (CNS) remyelination
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4625486/

Pivotal role of choline metabolites in remyelination
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25524711

CDP-choline: pharmacological and clinical review
https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/8709678

Neurocognitive effects of acute choline supplementation in low, medium and high performer healthy volunteers
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25681529

Effects of acute CDP-choline treatment on resting state brain oscillations in healthy volunteers
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25700947

Lastly, creatine:

Oral creatine monohydrate supplementation improves brain performance: a double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over trial
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC1691485/

Effect of creatine supplementation on cognitive performance and apoptosis in a rat model of amyloid-beta-induced Alzheimer’s disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5126215/

Effects of creatine supplementation on learning, memory retrieval, and apoptosis in an experimental animal model of Alzheimer disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4715403/

Metabolic Agents that Enhance ATP can Improve Cognitive Functioning: A Review of the Evidence for Glucose, Oxygen, Pyruvate, Creatine, and L-Carnitine
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3257700/

Creatine supplementation and cognitive performance in elderly individuals
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17828627

Beyond muscle: the effects of creatine supplementation on brain creatine, cognitive processing, and traumatic brain injury
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/30086660

Effects of creatine supplementation on cognitive function of healthy individuals: A systematic review of randomized controlled trials
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29704637

 

Solid list of info.

A while back a study came into focus about treating HSV with intramuscular ozonated blood injections. Not wanting to mislead but I think it cleared the virus in a portion of the patients.  The term appears to be ozone major autohemotherapy (MAH).  There's not much known about the specifics on this end but maybe it's a starting point for research.  The only study that could initially be found after a brief search was Italian but maybe the right site could be google translated.


Edited by LongeCity123, 31 December 2018 - 07:24 PM.






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