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Zinc-use it?

zinc copper

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#1 experimenting

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 09:17 PM


Thinking of starting a small dose of zinc daily for the sexual/hormonal benefits. Anyone have any experience?

I looked at LEF trace minerals but it has copper...and a few other odd ones as well (selenium, manganese) which the jury isn't out on. So maybe just stick to 15mg zinc on its own?

#2 Dorian Grey

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 09:46 PM

Modest zinc supplementation may be wise, particularly if you're not eating meat or seafood which are common sources of dietary zinc.  

 

More is not better...  Thumbs UP to the 15mg dose without copper.  Zinc is only supposed to dangerously antagonize copper at daily doses of 50mg/day or more, which is way more zinc than anyone would ever need provided you are not treating Wilson's Disease.  



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#3 experimenting

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 10:23 PM

Modest zinc supplementation may be wise, particularly if you're not eating meat or seafood which are common sources of dietary zinc.

More is not better... Thumbs UP to the 15mg dose without copper. Zinc is only supposed to dangerously antagonize copper at daily doses of 50mg/day or more, which is way more zinc than anyone would ever need provided you are not treating Wilson's Disease.


Yep low meat/fish diet here. I assume zinc alone is OK at that dose? Do you have any views on selenium manganese etc (the other so called trace minerals)

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#4 Dorian Grey

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 02:25 AM

Acu-Cell

 

https://acu-cell.com/

 

is a good resource for trace mineral information, & they often refer to "ratios" as being more significant with trace min's than deficiencies.  More often than not, it's a surplus of one trace that antagonizes another trace (that may not even be deficient) causing problems.  

 

Under "Mineral Ratios" in the top right section of the main page, click on the trace min's you're interested in (selenium / mang) and see what they have to say.  Of course they recommend hair mineral analysis as the only way to determine which ratios are out of whack.  

 

Personally, I wouldn't fool around with supplementing trace min's, as they are almost never deficient, but rather an excess of one is affecting the balance and function of another trace.  I take mag, because it is the most common macro-mineral deficiency, and mag deficiency has a lot of ominous issues associated with it.  Mag also antagonizes calcium, & calcifications (in blood vessels) are something to be avoided at all cost.  

 

Zinc is the only micro-min I pay attention to, as Acu-Cell reports copper is almost invariably high, but I get prostate inflammation/pain when I supplement even low dose zinc, so I try to get this from dietary sources.  Interesting Acu-Cell is the only site I've found that associates excess zinc with prostatitis.  Zinc antagonizes copper, & copper is one micro-min I don't want to let wreak havoc in my bodkin, so I try to minimize copper and get good dietary zinc. 

 

The other micro-min's typically take care of themselves in most folks, but it's interesting to read about the medical issues associated with imbalances.  If I had a specific medical condition, I'd probably want to dig deeper into the micro's associated with my issue, but I'm pretty healthy, with no chronic health issues to speak of.  


Edited by Dorian Grey, 24 October 2018 - 02:34 AM.


#5 experimenting

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 08:35 PM

Acu-Cell

https://acu-cell.com/

is a good resource for trace mineral information, & they often refer to "ratios" as being more significant with trace min's than deficiencies. More often than not, it's a surplus of one trace that antagonizes another trace (that may not even be deficient) causing problems.

Under "Mineral Ratios" in the top right section of the main page, click on the trace min's you're interested in (selenium / mang) and see what they have to say. Of course they recommend hair mineral analysis as the only way to determine which ratios are out of whack.

Personally, I wouldn't fool around with supplementing trace min's, as they are almost never deficient, but rather an excess of one is affecting the balance and function of another trace. I take mag, because it is the most common macro-mineral deficiency, and mag deficiency has a lot of ominous issues associated with it. Mag also antagonizes calcium, & calcifications (in blood vessels) are something to be avoided at all cost.

Zinc is the only micro-min I pay attention to, as Acu-Cell reports copper is almost invariably high, but I get prostate inflammation/pain when I supplement even low dose zinc, so I try to get this from dietary sources. Interesting Acu-Cell is the only site I've found that associates excess zinc with prostatitis. Zinc antagonizes copper, & copper is one micro-min I don't want to let wreak havoc in my bodkin, so I try to minimize copper and get good dietary zinc.

The other micro-min's typically take care of themselves in most folks, but it's interesting to read about the medical issues associated with imbalances. If I had a specific medical condition, I'd probably want to dig deeper into the micro's associated with my issue, but I'm pretty healthy, with no chronic health issues to speak of.


Sorry, didn't get back to you before. And thank you for a thoughtful response.

Liking my 15mg daily dose, which is the RDA. I'm essentially considering this an anti copper supp, so far so good. Surprised you can't supplement at any dose?

#6 John250

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 10:53 PM

It’s always smart to use it if you are getting sick but as a daily supplement your best bet is to figure out if you even need here:

https://www.walkinla...rserumtest.html

#7 experimenting

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 03:35 PM

I've been moving closer to 30mg/day. Any issues with this? Again I suspect it's heavily antagonized by copper.

#8 pamojja

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 04:00 PM

I've been moving closer to 30mg/day. Any issues with this? Again I suspect it's heavily antagonized by copper.

 

Not if you do monitor serum zinc and copper. Myself in the course of 10 years have titrated up to now 70 mg/d, but even after a year that high, serum zinc is still bottom low. Hope don't have need to go as high as Dr. Walsh, who in this recent interview said, that he needed 100 mg/d long term to keep his zinc levels sufficient due to genetic reasons: https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/dr-william-walsh-lab-tests-for-mental-health-issues/



#9 experimenting

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 06:42 PM

Not if you do monitor serum zinc and copper. Myself in the course of 10 years have titrated up to now 70 mg/d, but even after a year that high, serum zinc is still bottom low. Hope don't have need to go as high as Dr. Walsh, who in this recent interview said, that he needed 100 mg/d long term to keep his zinc levels sufficient due to genetic reasons: https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/dr-william-walsh-lab-tests-for-mental-health-issues/


You don't notice learning deficits at such high doses? Since zinc antagonized NMDA

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#10 pamojja

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 06:50 PM

You don't notice learning deficits at such high doses? Since zinc antagonized NMDA

 

No. Guess my serum levels are too low for such an effect.



#11 smithx

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 08:29 AM

Mag also antagonizes calcium, & calcifications (in blood vessels) are something to be avoided at all cost.


I know it's off the topic of zinc, but do you have any references regarding magnesium being dangerous to supplement?

#12 experimenting

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 12:07 PM

I know it's off the topic of zinc, but do you have any references regarding magnesium being dangerous to supplement?


Mag is NOT dangerous. Overdoses will do little more than upset stomach. He meant calcification is the danger.
  • Agree x 1

#13 smithx

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 04:11 AM

The quote was "Mag also antagonizes calcium & calcifications (in blood vessels) are something to be avoided at all cost."

 

I'm not sure what that means, but it sounds like it means that magnesium, according to Dorian, makes calcifications worse. If he was saying that, I would like to get a reference to the evidence for it, since, as you point out, it's widely believed that supplementing magnesium is NOT dangerous :)

 

 

 

Mag is NOT dangerous. Overdoses will do little more than upset stomach. He meant calcification is the danger.

 



#14 Dorian Grey

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 05:08 AM

No, mag "antagonizes" calcium, preventing an imbalance towards hypercalcemia, which can lead to calcium deposits in arteries.  

 

Magnesium deficiency is more common than calcium deficiency, and in my humble opinion a mag/calcium imbalance toward calcium is more dangerous than tipping the scale towards the magnesium side.  

 

Pregnant women with pre-eclampsia are given mag sulfate IV, dosed at 4 grams to start & then one gram per hour for 24 hours (total 28 grams/day), & this is safe for both mother and baby.  Don't know what would happen if you gave someone 28 grams of IV calcium in a day, but I reckon it wouldn't be pretty.  

 

I supplement mag citrate moderately (100mg/day) to keep the scales tipped towards the mag side, & rely on dietary sources of calcium.  Arterial calcifications are something I definitely want to avoid, and calcium deficiency is not something I'm particularly worried about.  



#15 John250

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 08:49 AM

No, mag "antagonizes" calcium, preventing an imbalance towards hypercalcemia, which can lead to calcium deposits in arteries.

Magnesium deficiency is more common than calcium deficiency, and in my humble opinion a mag/calcium imbalance toward calcium is more dangerous than tipping the scale towards the magnesium side.

Pregnant women with pre-eclampsia are given mag sulfate IV, dosed at 4 grams to start & then one gram per hour for 24 hours (total 28 grams/day), & this is safe for both mother and baby. Don't know what would happen if you gave someone 28 grams of IV calcium in a day, but I reckon it wouldn't be pretty.

I supplement mag citrate moderately (100mg/day) to keep the scales tipped towards the mag side, & rely on dietary sources of calcium. Arterial calcifications are something I definitely want to avoid, and calcium deficiency is not something I'm particularly worried about.


Would the magnesium and calcium testing that comes in a standard metabolic profile be adequate to judge the ratios? And is there a specific ratio to look for? Thank you

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#16 Dorian Grey

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 03:47 PM

I'm not well read on minerals in the standard metabolic panel,but I believe serum min's are quite fluid from day to day depending on dietary intake.  The guru's often opine hair mineral analysis is the best method, but this mostly pertains to trace min's and not the macro's.  







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