13 replies to this topic

[faxmulder]

Posted Today, 10:04 AM

 

Hi folks,

 

I'm 33, diet in check, walking a lot but not lifting at the moment, suffering from hay fever and autoimmune disease (lichen planopilaris on scalp). My main issues are: lack of focus, brain fog, mild OCD symptoms (some repetitive thoughts and behaviours in the evening), and constant overthinking/rumination. 

Do you see any potential bad interaction, side effect or "overlap" (I'd like to keep it as simple as possible) between the following supps?

 

• fish oil 2000mg

• magnesium 200 - 400mg (still experimenting with the best dosage to take mag during the day, taking in the night is disrupting my sleep)

• vit D3 4000UI

• vit K2 MK-4 100mg

• NAC 1800 - 2400mg

• ONE of the following adaptogens: bacopa (focus, OCD, anxiety), reishi (immune system modulation, hay fever, mood, but I'm concerned about its presumed anti-androgenic effects), rhodiola (energy, mood, focus), gotu kola, schisandra, gynostemma (I've read good reviews about these and I'm considering trying in the future) 

 

Do you think that taking both NAC and an adaptogen at the same time would be overkill, considering my goals?  If supplementing NAC, would be advised to add also vit C (1000mg)? I've read mixed opinions, but I'd be interested since vit C could help also with dry skin and hay fever. 

 

Last but not least, could I safely add MSM and zinc (15mg) to my stack? They should help with many things , i.e. hair, dry skin, mood, hay fever, detoxication (MSM) but I still to understand if they are suited for autoimmune diseases. 

 

Thanks a blast! 

 

[gamesguru]

I've had better effects from magnesium than zinc. zinc has literally made me vomit in a way that assured me I was getting enough dietary

I never had good results with fish oil or D3, and bacopa is important to cycle off

all your symptoms are tied together. the stress is making you depressed which in turn makes focusing hard.

I used to be like you, always looking for a better stack that would fix things without realizing the real answer came from within. If your diet is already in check you likely just need to push yourself in the right direction, and all these supps may be messing with your body more than anything. Just face your fears, do something that matters to you, one day things will click and get easier, like a snowball gradually gaining momentum

[adamh]

Some people need zinc, some don't. But the fish oil and d3 are important to take, but not to overuse. The dose makes the poison. There are things you could try, theanine, picamilon, valerian root, for sleep melatonin. Many others. I mention those because you sound possibly overstimulated perhaps just mentally. If none of those help you then we look for something else and possibly another cause for the problems.

 

None of what I mentioned is addictive though some tolerance issues are often found with non addictive substances. They won't hurt you taken in reasonable doses, not megadoses. If one or more does seem to help a little, cautiously try more. There are other things stronger but most of them can be addictive if carelessly used.

[gamesguru]

fish oil and d3 are important to take

 

 

The body converts one eighth of ingested ALA to EPA or DHA.  The RDA is 1-1.5g of ALA per day.  Which is average, even for Americans.

 

D3 can be gotten by walking in the noonday sun. Clouds don't affect this much, and it is a fat soluble vitamin.

[faxmulder]

Some people need zinc, some don't. But the fish oil and d3 are important to take, but not to overuse. The dose makes the poison. There are things you could try, theanine, picamilon, valerian root, for sleep melatonin. Many others. I mention those because you sound possibly overstimulated perhaps just mentally. If none of those help you then we look for something else and possibly another cause for the problems.

 

None of what I mentioned is addictive though some tolerance issues are often found with non addictive substances. They won't hurt you taken in reasonable doses, not megadoses. If one or more does seem to help a little, cautiously try more. There are other things stronger but most of them can be addictive if carelessly used.

 

I've tried valerian and it seems to help, but is giving me "too vivid" dreams, it's odd... I'm having the same side-effects with lemon balm.

I've tried also magnesium but when taking before bed is always disrupting my sleep.. I've tried glycinate, malate, citramate...

 

Speaking about melatonin, I'd like to try it, but I've heard mixed reviews about its role in autoimmune diseases. I'm TH2 dominant and can't understand if melatonin is advised or not.

 

 

Do you think that schisandra could help with overthinking and "monkey mind"? I'm taking Bacopa and it seems to help a bit with focus, but I'd like to investigate other adaptogens as well (btw I've already tried ashwagandha but caused pimples). I've heard good things about taurine as well, mainly related to GABA, not sure it would work with my issues.

 

Thanks!

[faxmulder]

The body converts one eighth of ingested ALA to EPA or DHA.  The RDA is 1-1.5g of ALA per day.  Which is average, even for Americans.

 

D3 can be gotten by walking in the noonday sun. Clouds don't affect this much, and it is a fat soluble vitamin.

 

thanks. I'm considering supplementing D3 (4000/5000UI) since I've read that it is recommended for people with autoimmune diseases.

[adamh]

GG

>D3 can be gotten by walking in the noonday sun

 

Sure, and sun ages the skin which is one of our very important organs. We are advised to use sunscreen for very good reasons.

 

OP

>I've tried valerian and it seems to help, but is giving me "too vivid" dreams

 

That may mean your dreams were suppressed and you are doing some catch up. I would not reject something that quickly if it seems to be helping. I've never heard of magnesium hurting sleep, it may be something else. Have you tried ashwaganda? Its another good one. 

[gamesguru]

GG

>D3 can be gotten by walking in the noonday sun

 

Sure, and sun ages the skin which is one of our very important organs. We are advised to use sunscreen for very good reasons.

 

Moderation in all things, the relationship between melanoma and sun exposure is a bell curved one.  Moderate exposure is better than none.

 

Plus if you spend all day playing video games inside, you'll end up like my ex.  She had a (nice) white ass and problems regulating her emotions.

[MankindRising]

Im not sure if you have been diagnosed with anything, but for my Aspergers related repetitive behaviors (which show an overlap in brain areas with ocd symptoms) I have found that targetting stratial dopamine/serotonin and the ratios between them is the way to go. Rumination is the inability to surrender to a situation (read: long term depression/long term potentiation and fear acquisition/fear extinction ratios are off).

Have you tried cordyceps, inositol, alpha gpc or memantine? I have found that those 3 did help with worrying. Memantine obviously being the most potent at this. Also nicotinic antagonists in general seem to help me: panax ginseng, menthol, quercetin, dxm.

 

Not sure if you have done 23andme but its worth an investment imo, for instance it can tell you if you have problems with adenosine related genes aswell. Adenosine is literally what shuts your brain down (cordyceps be a good way to try if it helps)

 

Regarding evenings and repetitive behavior: I can find myself oh so so much in this. What I find interesting is that the darker months such as winter that my repetitive behavior explodes (in fact I got memantine allready ready for that this year lol). It makes me wonder if increases in AANAT and subsequently n-acetylserotonin (extremely potent TrkB agonist and underresearched imo) makes the mind more curious thereby fueling interest in unnecessarry things.

 

Also assuming you are not prone to manic like behavior or have bipolar you can invest in a bright light therapy device (this helps me tons).

Edited by MankindRising, 17 November 2018 - 11:54 AM.

[faxmulder]

GG
>D3 can be gotten by walking in the noonday sun

Sure, and sun ages the skin which is one of our very important organs. We are advised to use sunscreen for very good reasons.

OP
>I've tried valerian and it seems to help, but is giving me "too vivid" dreams

That may mean your dreams were suppressed and you are doing some catch up. I would not reject something that quickly if it seems to be helping. I've never heard of magnesium hurting sleep, it may be something else. Have you tried ashwaganda? Its another good one.

Thanks, I think I'll keep trying with valerian. What about the dosage?
I've tried every kind of magnesium and I'm falling asleep quicker but I'm waking up more often.
Speaking about ashwagandha.. I had good effects in terms of anxiety and motivation but I've got two side effects: irritability and pimples, I think the cause is the raise in testosterone.

Did you have any experience with other adaptogens? I'd like to try reishi since it should work as an immune-modulator but I'm concerned about its presumed anti-androgenic effects. From what I've read also schisandra seems interesting, but I don't know if it'd help for overthinking and monkey mind.

I'm also interested in MSM. I've read here that it should help with dry skin, hair, energy, and hay fever. In some high dosages it should improve also focus and clear of thinking. Did you have any good experience with this? I need to understand if it is suited for autoimmune diseases.

[faxmulder]

Im not sure if you have been diagnosed with anything, but for my Aspergers related repetitive behaviors (which show an overlap in brain areas with ocd symptoms) I have found that targetting stratial dopamine/serotonin and the ratios between them is the way to go. Rumination is the inability to surrender to a situation (read: long term depression/long term potentiation and fear acquisition/fear extinction ratios are off).

Have you tried cordyceps, inositol, alpha gpc or memantine? I have found that those 3 did help with worrying. Memantine obviously being the most potent at this. Also nicotinic antagonists in general seem to help me: panax ginseng, menthol, quercetin, dxm.

 

Not sure if you have done 23andme but its worth an investment imo, for instance it can tell you if you have problems with adenosine related genes aswell. Adenosine is literally what shuts your brain down (cordyceps be a good way to try if it helps)

 

Regarding evenings and repetitive behavior: I can find myself oh so so much in this. What I find interesting is that the darker months such as winter that my repetitive behavior explodes (in fact I got memantine allready ready for that this year lol). It makes me wonder if increases in AANAT and subsequently n-acetylserotonin (extremely potent TrkB agonist and underresearched imo) makes the mind more curious thereby fueling interest in unnecessarry things.

 

Also assuming you are not prone to manic like behavior or have bipolar you can invest in a bright light therapy device (this helps me tons).

 

Hi mate, thanks for your reply!

 

That sounds very interesting. I'll try inositol for sure, I've just ordered Jarrow's powder - which dosage are you taking? I'm interested also in cordyceps, since I've read they can also help with energy and endurance. I need to understand if medicinal mushrooms are suited for autoimmune diseases (I'm TH2 dominant). The same for ginseng.

 

Could I try cordyceps, inositol and alpha gpc at the same time or it would be overkill, considering that I'm already taking the other supplements listed above?

 

Speaking about overthinking and OCD, have you ever tried NAC? I've seen that it's advised a lot in the forum.

For focus I've heard good stuff about ALCAR, but I don't know if it is suited for my condition since it can impair sleep and be too stimulating.

 

Thanks

[MankindRising]

Hi mate, thanks for your reply!

 

That sounds very interesting. I'll try inositol for sure, I've just ordered Jarrow's powder - which dosage are you taking? I'm interested also in cordyceps, since I've read they can also help with energy and endurance. I need to understand if medicinal mushrooms are suited for autoimmune diseases (I'm TH2 dominant). The same for ginseng.

 

Could I try cordyceps, inositol and alpha gpc at the same time or it would be overkill, considering that I'm already taking the other supplements listed above?

 

Speaking about overthinking and OCD, have you ever tried NAC? I've seen that it's advised a lot in the forum.

For focus I've heard good stuff about ALCAR, but I don't know if it is suited for my condition since it can impair sleep and be too stimulating.

 

Thanks

NAC was dulling, lowers glutamate too much and worsened my apathy and makes me aggressive.

Inositol, damiana and cordyceps I find calming all in a none sedative way and just makes me relaxed (way better than NAC imo), problem is their effect seems mainly acute. You will have to dig through examine.com a bit to find how they work on the immune system. Generally speaking though I personally respond to to those 3 and I suspect I have autoimmune problems.

Everything that lowers il1b, il16 and il17 and raises il10 seems to benefit me. Panax ginseng I can also tollerate easy.

 

ALCAR was a HELL to me, absolutely one of the most horrible responses ever, strong irritability and gaze aversion towards people (aggrevated my asd core symptoms).

 

Memantine was the best out of all, it can give some people their life back, however the memory issues on it led me to discontinue.

Edited by MankindRising, 19 November 2018 - 12:46 PM.

[Rosanna]

I have mild ocd in that every so often in my life I'll have a flare but otherwise it's dormant (it runs in the maternal side of my family).

 

Inositol helps at 1000mg.  I need to look into how healthy this is overall though, not just for the ocd, but I have noticed it seems to make me much more resistant to 'ocd thinking'

while not giving any other side effects, as far as I can tell.

[Caravaggio]

ALCAR was a HELL to me, absolutely one of the most horrible responses ever, strong irritability and gaze aversion towards people (aggrevated my asd core symptoms).

 

Memantine was the best out of all, it can give some people their life back, however the memory issues on it led me to discontinue.

 

I guess this is due to ALCAR acting as a calcium channel opener.

 

This article describes how ALCAR was used to unblock the calcium channels in a patient that overdosed with calcium channel blockers.

 

L-Carnitine combined with HDI may have helped with the calcium channel blocker (CCB) poisoning by decreasing insulin resistance, promoting intracellular glucose transport, facilitating the metabolism of free fatty acids, and increasing calcium channel sensitivity.

→ source (external link)

(with the difference that L-Carnitine is not acetylated and doesn't cross the BBB.

 

In ASD the calcium channels are open too long and that leads to toxic levels of calcium inside the cells.

 

Additional genetic support of a role for CCG in ASD comes from the association with ASD of a single-nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) in the CACNA1G gene encoding a T-type Ca2+ channel subunit [14] (transient duration of opening) detected in an analysis of parent/child ASD affected trios from 284 nuclear multiplex families with only affected boys from the Autism Genetics Research Exchange (AGRE) collection.

→ source (external link)