21 replies to this topic

[Jim Morrison]

I don't think this has been discussed yet here: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3921468/

 

Any educated opinions? Here's a tread with some discussion over at Reddit that popped up recently: https://www.reddit.c...amol_linked_to/

[Mind]

Rates of dementia and Alzheimer's are going down https://medicalxpres...but-beware.html I know the author of the paper tries to convince readers that this is irrelevant, but I think it is meaningful.

 

So it probably isn't a pandemic, just that the population is living longer and more people are living into the age where they are more susceptible to these conditions. It doesn't mean paracetamol or other analgesics are not a factor or a problem, but they are probably one of many factors that have been robustly linked to Alzheimer's development.

[metabrain]

Alzheimers has been around long before Paracetamol.

 

One interesting thing is that it may be transmissible through blood transfusion.

 

https://www.independ...y-37625524.html

 

 

Edited by metabrain, 17 December 2018 - 11:17 AM.

[xEva]

Actually the authors make a convincing historical case that there were hardly any cases of AD before paracetamol came to market. What was sold before paracetamol was a popular drug, made from tar, which in the body metabolized to paracetamol. They say that's when AD fist peaked. I would not dismiss it out of hand without reading it.

 

One interesting thing is that it may be transmissible through blood transfusion.

 

https://www.independ...y-37625524.html

 

This is scary!
 

[GABAergic]

i avoid that crap like the plague. i remember overdosing few times and almost dying. if you check its side effect profile, its insane for a drug sold over the counter. even cancer risk! why the fuck is this garbage still on the market when so many better alternatives are already out??

[Mind_Paralysis]

i avoid that crap like the plague. i remember overdosing few times and almost dying. if you check its side effect profile, its insane for a drug sold over the counter. even cancer risk! why the fuck is this garbage still on the market when so many better alternatives are already out??

 

Why is alcohol or tobacco still on the market? Or any number of things - answer: it's CHEAP to manufacture.

 

It's also got a tremendous brand-power, since it's essentially the oldest non-addictive painkiller in western culture.

 

On another note - I find myself rather sceptical about this study... so I'm going to have a closer look at it, soon, to really see if it holds up in the light of day.

 

If true though, it does make me wonder what parts of Paracetamol would be responsible for this effect? Is it the unmetabolized Paracetamol, or the active metabolites? One which is highly toxic in other ways, and one which is not at all. (AM-404 - an SCRI - selective cannabinoid reuptake inhibitor)

 

We know that a minority of people report persistent cognitive and memory-issues from heavy cannabis-use - could it in fact be the SCRI-effect which causes alzheimers then? But then... why don't people whom smoke tons of pot get alzheimers?

[Turnbuckle]

There is evidence that the herbicide glyphosate (as in Roundup) is correlated with a variety of rapidly increasing neuropathologies such as autism, Alzheimer's disease, depression, anxiety syndrome, Parkinson's disease, and prion diseases--

 

Manganese (Mn) is an often overlooked but important nutrient, required in small amounts for multiple essential functions in the body. A recent study on cows fed genetically modified Roundup®-Ready feed revealed a severe depletion of serum Mn. Glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup®, has also been shown to severely deplete Mn levels in plants. Here, we investigate the impact of Mn on physiology, and its association with gut dysbiosis as well as neuropathologies such as autism, Alzheimer's disease (AD), depression, anxiety syndrome, Parkinson's disease (PD), and prion diseases. Glutamate overexpression in the brain in association with autism, AD, and other neurological diseases can be explained by Mn deficiency. Mn superoxide dismutase protects mitochondria from oxidative damage, and mitochondrial dysfunction is a key feature of autism and Alzheimer’s. Chondroitin sulfate synthesis depends on Mn, and its deficiency leads to osteoporosis and osteomalacia. Lactobacillus, depleted in autism, depend critically on Mn for antioxidant protection. Lactobacillus probiotics can treat anxiety, which is a comorbidity of autism and chronic fatigue syndrome. Reduced gut Lactobacillus leads to overgrowth of the pathogen, Salmonella, which is resistant to glyphosate toxicity, and Mn plays a role here as well. Sperm motility depends on Mn, and this may partially explain increased rates of infertility and birth defects. We further reason that, under conditions of adequate Mn in the diet, glyphosate, through its disruption of bile acid homeostasis, ironically promotes toxic accumulation of Mn in the brainstem, leading to conditions such as PD and prion diseases.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4392553/

 

 

Organophosphates are similar to nerve agents used in warfare. Why Glyphosate Should Be Banned.

 

 

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Edited by Turnbuckle, 26 December 2018 - 08:40 PM.

[xEva]

There is evidence that the herbicide glyphosate (as in Roundup) is correlated with a variety of rapidly increasing neuropathologies such as autism, Alzheimer's disease, depression, anxiety syndrome, Parkinson's disease, and prion diseases--

 

 

Organophosphates are similar to nerve agents used in warfare. Why Glyphosate Should Be Banned.

 

Years ago I researched Roundup and found that the key compound is quite safe. It's the surfactants, which make the stuff cling to the foliage, and which are listed as 'inert ingredients', that represent the real problem. The whole issue of  toxicity of Roundup is confused by this lack of distinction. Numerous studies showed that glyphosate itself is non-toxic to non-plant and non-bacterial life. It's only the studies that took the complete formulation of Roundup, which included the surfactants, that showed it quite toxic to animals.

 

But the ironic part is that the sufactants, which are often hidden under the 'proprietary formula'  label,  are not unique to Roundup. Even though they are used in minute quantities some are still highly toxic. The problem of toxicity of herbicides could be solved only when people will stop confusing this issue.  Again, it's the surfactants that is the problem not glyphosate itself. For example, the aquatic formulation of Roundup (for ponds) lacks surfactants and is safe even to the invertebrates!

[Turnbuckle]

Years ago I researched Roundup and found that the key compound is quite safe. 

 

Have you researched it recently? 

 

Oxidative stress, cholinesterase activity, and DNA damage in the liver, whole blood, and plasma of Wistar rats following a 28-day exposure to glyphosate.

 

 

 

In this 28 day-study, we evaluated the effects of herbicide glyphosate administered by gavage to Wistar rats at daily doses equivalent to 0.1 of the acceptable operator exposure level (AOEL), 0.5 of the consumer acceptable daily intake (ADI), 1.75 (corresponding to the chronic population-adjusted dose, cPAD), and 10 mg kg-1 body weight (bw) (corresponding to 100 times the AOEL). At the end of each treatment, the body and liver weights were measured and compared with their baseline values. DNA damage in leukocytes and liver tissue was estimated with the alkaline comet assay. Oxidative stress was evaluated using a battery of endpoints to establish lipid peroxidation via thiobarbituric reactive substances (TBARS) level, level of reactive oxygen species (ROS), glutathione (GSH) level, and the activity of glutathione peroxidase (GSH-Px). Total cholinesterase activity and the activities of acetylcholinesterase (AChE) and butyrylcholinesterase (BChE) were also measured. The exposed animals gained less weight than control. Treatment resulted in significantly higher primary DNA damage in the liver cells and leukocytes. Glyphosate exposure significantly lowered TBARS in the liver of the AOEL, ADI, and cPAD groups, and in plasma in the AOEL and cPAD group. AChE was inhibited with all treatments, but the AOEL and ADI groups significantly differed from control. Total ChE and plasma/liver ROS/GSH levels did not significantly differ from control, except for the 35 % decrease in ChE in the AOEL and ADI groups and a significant drop in liver GSH in the cPAD and 100xAOEL groups. AOEL and ADI blood GSH-Px activity dropped significantly, but in the liver it significantly increased in the ADI, cPAD, and 100xAOEL groups vs. control. All these findings show that even exposure to low glyphosate levels can have serious adverse effects and points to a need to change the approach to risk assessment of low-level chronic/sub-chronic glyphosate exposure, where oxidative stress is not necessarily related to the genetic damage and AChE inhibition.

 

Full text: https://content.scie...rticle-p154.xml

 

 

Analytical grade glyphosate was used -- no surfactants. In the US, almost 2 million tons of glyphosate have been applied to fields since its introduction in the seventies. We have poisoned ourselves like the Romans did with lead acetate. The Romans used it as sweetener for wine, while Monsanto claimed glyphosate was “safer than table salt.”

Edited by Turnbuckle, 28 December 2018 - 09:34 AM.

[xEva]

 

Have you researched it recently? 

 

 

 

Analytical grade glyphosate was used -- no surfactants. In the US, almost 2 million tons of glyphosate have been applied to fields since its introduction in the seventies. We have poisoned ourselves like the Romans did with lead acetate. The Romans used it as sweetener for wine, while Monsanto claimed glyphosate was “safer than table salt.”

 

 

As usual, the devil is in the details. If you look at the graphs, x100 levels of glyphosate  (at 10 mg kg-1 bw per day) were a bit LESS toxic than the "acceptable operator exposure level (AOEL) of 0.1 mg kg-1". Why?

 

Interesting that when it came to ROS, high glyphosate groups showed significantly LESSER levels of ROS than control  -- which, under the different circumstances would qualify glyphosate as an antioxidant!

 

The DNA damage part is indeed worrisome -- at the first glance though. Again, the 100x level of exposure was slightly less damaging than x1 level -- which actually correlates with what we know about ROS: i.e. a certain level of ROS is good as it signals to upregulate the repairs, but go a bit up or down and it starts to depend on other parameters.

 

It is only when it came to the relative liver weight that the x100  level showed a significant increase, while the "acceptable operator exposure level (AOEL)" and especially "the acceptable daily intake (ADI) for consumers of 0.5 mg kg-1 bw per day" matched the empty vehicle control. But then again, this is explained by the overall weight gain graph: the empty vehicle control and the 'known toxin' control showed the greatest overall weight gain. They did not specify what tissue was responsible for most of the gain. If, as normally is the case, it was due to fat, glyphosate would come out a winner.

 

And I'm confused about TBARS, "a measure of lipid peroxidation", which in the control group was almost twice as high as in all other groups, including the 'known toxin control' -? I think this study begs more questions than it answers.

 

 

IMO there are two 'star' substances reserved for the farming industry which are absolutely amazing. One is glyphosate and the other is fenbendazole. What makes them amazing is that they are highly specific for their targets while remaining non-toxic to the vertebrates (fenben is highly toxic to the invertebrates which is its target).

Edited by xEva, 28 December 2018 - 03:17 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

IMO there are two 'star' substances reserved for the farming industry which are absolutely amazing. One is glyphosate and the other is fenbendazole. What makes them amazing is that they are highly specific for their targets while remaining non-toxic to the vertebrates (fenben is highly toxic to the invertebrates which is its target).

 

 

They say, "All these findings show that even exposure to low glyphosate levels can have serious adverse effects," thus the safety of this stuff over decades of chronic use cannot be assured, and your assurance that it is safe sounds like an advertisement for Monsanto.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 28 December 2018 - 03:45 PM.

[pamojja]

What makes them amazing is that they are highly specific for their targets while remaining non-toxic to the vertebrates (fenben is highly toxic to the invertebrates which is its target).

 

Yes, perfectly targeted Antibiotic for one's own microbiome .

[Turnbuckle]

Another paper that should make one concerned about glyphosate--

 

Glyphosate pathways to modern diseases VI: Prions, amyloidoses and autoimmune

neurological diseases

 

Usage of the herbicide glyphosate on core crops in the USA has increased exponentially

over the past two decades, in step with the exponential increase in autoimmune diseases

including autism, multiple sclerosis, inflammatory bowel disease, type 1 diabetes, coeliac

disease, neuromyelitis optica and many others. In this paper we explain how glyphosate,

acting as a non-coding amino acid analogue of glycine, could erroneously be integrated with

or incorporated into protein synthesis in place of glycine, producing a defective product that

resists proteolysis. Whether produced by a microbe or present in a food source, such a peptide

could lead to autoimmune disease through molecular mimicry. We discuss similarities in other

naturally produced disease-causing amino acid analogues, such as the herbicide glufosinate

and the insecticide L-canavanine, and provide multiple examples of glycine-containing short

peptides linked to autoimmune disease, particularly with respect to multiple sclerosis. Most

disturbing is the presence of glyphosate in many popular vaccines including the measles,

mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine, which we have verified here for the first time.

Contamination may come through bovine protein, bovine calf serum, bovine casein, egg

protein and/or gelatin. Gelatin sourced from the skin and bones of pigs and cattle given

glyphosate-contaminated feed contains the herbicide. Collagen, the principal component of

gelatin, contains very high levels of glycine, as do the digestive enzymes: pepsin, trypsin and

lipase. The live measles virus could produce glyphosate-containing haemagglutinin, which

might induce an autoimmune attack on myelin basic protein, commonly observed in autism.

Regulatory agencies urgently need to reconsider the risks associated with the indiscriminate

use of glyphosate to control weeds.

http://thinktwice.co...-glyphosate.pdf

 

 

 

[xEva]

Yes, perfectly targeted Antibiotic for one's own microbiome .

 

Yes, actually if glyphosate was not reserved for the farming industry, it would make an excellent antibiotic or an effective antibiotic adjunct for certain resistant bacteria and even protozoa.

 

 

They say, "All these findings show that even exposure to low glyphosate levels can have serious adverse effects," thus the safety of this stuff over decades of chronic use cannot be assured, and your assurance that it is safe sounds like an advertisement for Monsanto.

 

 

Yes, that's their 'conclusion', but imo they failed to demonstrate it or even specify what exactly the adverse effects were. Their conclusion was based entirely on the demonstrated difference in response to glyphosate compared to controls. But in most cases the difference was in favor of glyphosate.

 

The problems with many studies funded by different groups (either pro-pharma or against it) is that they, supposedly unbiased, usually confuse the issues. I never saw anyone mentioning the actual evil: the chemicals used as 'inert' ingredients in various herbicides, including Roundup. As 'inert', they are nor regulated and not tested, and usually not even listed on the label.  But they are inert only as herbicides. They are not at all inert to the living things -- far from it!

[Turnbuckle]

 Their conclusion was based entirely on the demonstrated difference in response to glyphosate compared to controls. But in most cases the difference was in favor of glyphosate.

 

 

 

 

What good is a positive difference if a negative difference produces Alzheimer's? Anyone claiming that this stuff being fed to the entire population does no harm should be required to prove that assertion. Safety should be proven first, but in this case the profits obviously got in the way. And the profits are truly massive. One farmer just pled guilty in a $140 million ten-year scheme selling GMO for organic. So even if you try to avoid this stuff by paying for organic, you may still be getting it.

[GABAergic]

yeah the way xeva speaks of glyphosate it makes me think she is supportive of its use in even wider scale than currently used. like, try to take it as antibiotic next time you require antibiotics and report on it. or, just do video on youtube trying it to prove its safety if you are so 100% sure its safe for humans you shouldnt have problem taking a drop live. i absolutely disagree this stuff is harmless to humans tho, but i agree with one thing for sure, the "inactive" ingredients just like in roundup but as in many other products is what causes a cocktail combination of toxcity. perhaps glyphosate becomes extra toxic when mixed with them because of chemistry and yet, i still wouldnt suggest taking that shit as antibiotic lol

[John250]

Can’t load the studies for some reason. Can someone give me the cliff notes? Thanks

[xEva]

You

 

What good is a positive difference if a negative difference produces Alzheimer's? Anyone claiming that this stuff being fed to the entire population does no harm should be required to prove that assertion. Safety should be proven first, but in this case the profits obviously got in the way. And the profits are truly massive. One farmer just pled guilty in a $140 million ten-year scheme selling GMO for organic. So even if you try to avoid this stuff by paying for organic, you may still be getting it.

 

 

yeah the way xeva speaks of glyphosate it makes me think she is supportive of its use in even wider scale than currently used. like, try to take it as antibiotic next time you require antibiotics and report on it. or, just do video on youtube trying it to prove its safety if you are so 100% sure its safe for humans you shouldnt have problem taking a drop live. i absolutely disagree this stuff is harmless to humans tho, but i agree with one thing for sure, the "inactive" ingredients just like in roundup but as in many other products is what causes a cocktail combination of toxcity. perhaps glyphosate becomes extra toxic when mixed with them because of chemistry and yet, i still wouldnt suggest taking that shit as antibiotic lol

 

You guys sound as if you long for the 'natural way', afraid of the innovations of the present and future. It's easy to criticize and forbid; harder to offer a solution for whatever problems biotech like glyphosate solves. There are many of us on the planet. And nobody wants to have to adapt to the new challenges in our environment. Instead we long for the 'all natural' yummy produce of the past. We also wanna live forever. All of us. I wonder how we're gonna accomplish all that

Edited by xEva, 29 December 2018 - 11:12 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

You guys sound as if you long for the 'natural way', afraid of the innovations of the present and future. It's easy to criticize and forbid; harder to offer a solution for whatever problems biotech like glyphosate solves. There are many of us on the planet. And nobody wants to have to adapt to the new challenges in our environment. Instead we long for the 'all natural' yummy produce of the past. We also wanna live forever. All of us. I wonder how we're gonna accomplish all that

 

Glyphosate is profitable for farmers and for Monsanto, but it does nothing for consumers. The scandal is that Monsanto poisoned Vietnam with Agent Orange (claiming they were saving lives) and now is poisoning the US with another herbicide, telling yet more lies, and no one is thrown into jail.

[xEva]

Glyphosate is profitable for farmers and for Monsanto, but it does nothing for consumers.

 

What you mean nothing? It gives us cheap and good looking though utterly tasteless food. But then there are other chemicals to spice it up!

Glyphosate is here to stay. If you don't like it, come up with a substitute. Solve the problems it solves. 
 

[GABAergic]

Glyphosate is profitable for farmers and for Monsanto, but it does nothing for consumers. The scandal is that Monsanto poisoned Vietnam with Agent Orange (claiming they were saving lives) and now is poisoning the US with another herbicide, telling yet more lies, and no one is thrown into jail.

 

monsanto had such bad reputation and so many were against them so in shame, they finally sold themselves to bayer. they dont exist anymore but now bayer owns and is going to use the poison they have created, so we should turn our attention to them now and keep up with their doings in the future
 

[Turnbuckle]

monsanto had such bad reputation and so many were against them so in shame, they finally sold themselves to bayer. they dont exist anymore but now bayer owns and is going to use the poison they have created, so we should turn our attention to them now and keep up with their doings in the future
 

 

 

German companies came in and foolishly bought Monsanto and all the exposure to lawsuits. Bayer bought it and turned around and divested much of the GMO and glyphosate business to BASF due to antitrust issues. (They think they got a deal, haha.) The Bayer CEO already knows they have a problem, but calls it a nuisance. He said, “If we can settle nuisances at some point where the defense costs in preparing cases are higher than potential settlement amounts, we will of course consider it from an economic standpoint.” But US juries can be outrageous when setting damages, especially when foreign companies or countries are involved, so this is going to be a nightmare. In the first loss on a glyphosate linked cancer case, the jury awarded a quarter of a billion to a janitor, reduced by the judge to $78 million. With blood in the water, class action lawsuits are being prepared. There are 8,700 lawsuits as of November. And that is just a tiny tip of the legal exposure, as epidemiological data makes it look like the health of the entire US has gone south in an almost exact parallel to the rise of glyphosate.

 

It's not only cancer (non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, bile duct cancer, kidney and bladder cancers, and thyroid cancer) but the increase in diabetes and cholesterol, deaths due to hypertension, obesity, intestinal infections, Alzheimer's, and Parkinson's, along with the spectacular rise in autism. Something very bad has happened to the health of Americans, and rightly or wrongly, most of it is coincident with the introduction of this herbicide and parallels its growth rate. The many studies now coming out showing strong biological effects in test animals means that a feast day is coming for lawyers. And while our government is too corrupt to put an end to it, the massive legal cost may do it for us.

 

The epidemiological data re glyphosate and the deterioration of health appears in a paper here--

 

Genetically engineered crops, glyphosate and the

deterioration of health in the United States of America 

 

A huge increase in the incidence and prevalence of chronic diseases has been reported in the United

States (US) over the last 20 years. Similar increases have been seen globally. The herbicide

glyphosate was introduced in 1974 and its use is accelerating with the advent of herbicide-tolerant

genetically engineered (GE) crops. Evidence is mounting that glyphosate interferes with many

metabolic processes in plants and animals and glyphosate residues have been detected in both.

Glyphosate disrupts the endocrine system and the balance of gut bacteria, it damages DNA and is a

driver of mutations that lead to cancer.