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Getting more out of expensive Atomoxetine

atomoxetine strattera cyp2d6

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#1 Pirateer

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 07:17 AM


Hi All,

I'm taking Strattera and finding I'm building up a tolerance to it rather quickly, so rather than increase my dosage (because it's expensive), I'm trying out CYP2D6 inhibitors to see if that increases it's effectiveness and length of time it stays in my body. Apparently it has a half life of just 5 hours.

I just tried 500mgs of Golden Seal root powder (not extract) a few hours prior to my Strattera dose and going to see if that works. I've tried Green Tea and Green Tea extract but that didn't really work. Many of the CYP2D6 inhibitors seem to me to be things that would make a person sleepy. Chlorpheniramine, Opiates and things like that.

If it potentiates it too much I have Ginkgo and Valerian which I have tried and verified that they do reduce the effect of Strattera, so not too worried about an overdose. Side effects of Strattera OD on me were just dizziness, headache and mild physical (but not mental) panic attack symptoms. Which all went away within a few hours of taking Ginkgo and Valerian. 

I'm just wondering if anyone has tried this approach, or knows anything related to the above? Also wondering if it's worth taking a long acting protein supplement to provide the amino acids these neurotransmitters use to get a bump in effectiveness also?

Either way I'll post here about the outcome of Golden Seal, and whether I need to take Berberine/Golden Seal extract instead for better results.

 

Regards,

Pirateer



#2 Pirateer

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 01:32 PM

Just an update:

I didn't feel much so took another Golden Seal capsule about 4 or 5 hours after the first. And then a further 4 to 5 hours after that (which is approximately now) I am experiencing excess Strattera/noradrenaline effects. Just took 500mg of whole powdered Ginkgo and a Valium to control the side effects. Evidently you only need 500mg of Golden Seal to potentiate Strattera. Tomorrow I will stick with just one Golden Seal capsule and see how that goes.



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#3 Pirateer

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 07:59 PM

Another Golden Seal update. I felt it was the responsible thing to do to post this further update in case anyone is considering trying this. 

I know this is a short test, but I have found I'm already getting some negative feedback in that the Golden Seal seems to be also interacting with some other stuff I am taking. If you look at the Wiki page for Golden Seal, you can see it increases inhibition of CYP2D6 as well as CYP3A4 and CYP3A5, by up to 40%. I believe this too as the negative results I'm getting are certainly consistent with that. And further if you check out the wiki pages for those enzymes you can see the wide array of drugs and supplements that are affected by these enzymes and the inhibition or inducement thereof.

So I'm going to stop taking Golden Seal as it's too much of a shotgun approach, not targeted enough to Strattera (or CYP2D6 really), and I'll see if I can find some other options. Or maybe just have to suck up the cost and increase the Strattera dose. Or maybe even find a different way to take it ie- experiment with sublingual dosing or enteric capsules or something.

I note after some further reading that Quinine seems more targeted to CYP2D6 only. It is also extremely cheap and widely available even at the Supermarket in the form of Tonic Water. So I might give that a go next and post here about it at a later date.

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Goldenseal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYP2D6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYP3A4

https://www.mayoclin...ction_Chart.pdf



#4 John250

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 08:20 PM

http://herbpedia.wikidot.com/cyp2d6
  • Informative x 1

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#5 Pirateer

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 05:15 PM

Hi All.

I found a high Quinine tonic water, tried a large amount of it and it seemed to have the desired effect. I wouldn't say it made the effect of Strattera a lot stronger per se, but definitely did appear to make it last longer in my system.

The trouble is I need to take some painkillers now due to an injury and CYP2D6 inhibition lowers their effectiveness. So have to abandon this pursuit for a while until I'm healed. In the meantime I will up my dosage of Strattera.

I also tried 10mg of Strattera sublingually in addition to earlier regular oral dose (with the tonic water) and whilst it worked I did get some nasty side effects that were probably noradrenaline related. Nausea, raised heart rate and mild headache mainly. Interestingly, I had Ginkgo to induce CYP2D6 and reduce Strattera in my system and the symptoms were reduced, but did persist mildly for a while whereas prior they have disappeared. So perhaps sublingual is rather potent.

This begs the question - does Strattera behave in the way that Nicotinamide Riboside and Nicotinamide Mononucleotide behave, in that oral doses are much less effective than sublingual due to the fact that the liver converts most of it before it reaches the bloodstream and brain? I might try sublingual Strattera again but at a fraction of the dose I tried previously.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: atomoxetine, strattera, cyp2d6

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