207 replies to this topic

[RighteousReason]

Where I come from we just bum-rush tyrants like Hank from all four corners until we bring them down.

Hank represents God, in the story.

[Live Forever]

Live Forever, I read that story about Hank you provided a link to. I read it kinda fast due to time constraints. Either there's a moral in the story for me to catch, like may be I'm committing sometype of logical fallacy I need to be made aware of, or, you want me to kiss Hanks butt too. I'm for abolishing money and private property and living communally as I mentioned previously. A million dollars is useless to me. Where I come from we just bum-rush tyrants like Hank from all four corners until we bring them down.

Now you take this guy zoolander, I'm for taking a long pole with a hook on the end and snatching his young, soft butt right off the stage. What's a Nacho libre anyway? Is he trying to pull me off my square or what? Just wait till I get a couple of years (the Lord permitting) under my belt on this computer so I can compete with you guys.

You really disappointed me Live Forever. I thought when you put a link to that Einstein stuff you were going to give me a helping hand. If these guys would've put you on trial for treason, I would've represented you "pro bono."

You seriously didn't understand what was being said? William, you are really disappointing me.
As hankconn said, Hank (from the story) represents God. The $1 million represents eternal life (and heavenly rewards), getting your ass kicked represents going to hell, kissing Hank's ass represents giving God praise (worship, etc), leaving town represents dying, the "list" represents the Bible, etc.. It is trying to show you, from a third person perspective, why we think your ideas are so ridiculous. It is nothing more than a story, but it is meant to show you our point of view without the cluttering up of religion clouding your view.

Perhaps the video would make it more clear?

Here you go:

Edited by Live Forever, 20 June 2006 - 09:41 PM.

[DJS]

william

Gee Don, that was a brillant piece of sophistry there.

You're charging me with sophistry? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

What's the next step hotshot?

Hitting the ignore button, my fundie friend. )

[DJS]

Hank

Even if this hypothesis is proven to be true, evolution is not intelligent.

I haven't seen any testable models or hypotheses of intelligence creating a Universe. Well there is one that is testable. Singularity.

Hank, if you'd like to start a thread on this topic I would be happy to dialog with you.

[william]

brandonreinhart, those "dehumanizing aspects of religion and religious teaching" you mention are a result of the false religions of the world that've held sway throughout the ages. God intends to abolish those false religions and set up His Kingdom (true religion) in place of them. God's true religion will work where the false ones have failed.

I see you're well grounded in philosophy. I studied alot of philosophy in my younger years too. To further extend your knowledge, you should undertake a serious study of the various religions and their history. You should checkout the "History of Europe and the Church" at http://www.originofnations.org/ for a good start. You might begin to recognize the absolute necessity of a worldwide ruling religion - that has a new and better understanding of the Bible - to replace the old, false religions and the very negative mark they've left on history.

[william]

Come on Don don't stalk away mad. You can dish it out but you can't take it. You're too sensitive. My apology if I've offended you. I wouldn't even bother reading what you young guys wrote if I wasn't picking up a few things in the process. I might totally disagree with you when it comes to God and religion, but I do recognize you and the others are pretty sharp. Let an old man hang out with you once in awhile.

[Grail]

Methinks I have been forgotten.
I think, William, that Don no longer finds any merit with anything you have to say, so I doubt he will take further part in this discussion. I'd also like to note that finally Don has a new avatar!

So Willliam, back to the old "what makes you right and them wrong" question. Face it, the Bible is an outdated concept. People are never going to agree on one interpretation of the inconsistencies therein.

Watch the film that Live Forever posted.

You say you have no need for a million dollars. Do you think that future anti-aging treatments and technologies will be free?

[brandonreinhart]

William, you misunderstand what I'm trying to say. My post was brief and the argument is perhaps not so simple. Metaphysically speaking, if a religion says "love comes from God," for example, it is dehumanizing. It is saying "this incredible trait, this incredible aspect of humanity is not really human in origin." Religions take our greatest acts of art, music, emotion, and essentially any non-scientific achievement and says "it was a gift from god." That insults me. Men and women have made these great things, by their own will, through their own creativity. If the religion is more eastern, it may teach to seek a state of holism that denies a "dualist" perception. This is usually characterized by some meditative state of nonthought. I don't see how this does anything but deny our greatest strength in the animal kingdom: our thought and our reason.

So for me, it's much more fundamental than the particular teachings of any given religion or the politics of any given religion. I see little merit in the way they cast morality as a non-human mandate. I think it limits us from becoming better than what we are.

[william]

Sorry qrail! I forgot you for a moment there. I'm on a family computer with a number of accounts on it. I can't just stay on it all the time like you guys can. I'm trying to figure out a way though. I'm hooked on this computer thing for sure.

Yea, Don got mad and took off. That was my fault. I shouldn't of been so hard on him. I noticed his new avatar too. It looks like something under a microscope. His old avatar looked slicker IMO. His new one reminds me of the Florida State University site I checked out the other day where they take you on a slideshow from the micro to the macro and back again. Check it out at http://micro.magnet....of10/index.html. Kinda neat don't you think?

You always ask the toughest questions. I don't know how I can prove to you my understanding of the Bible is right and the others wrong unless I can get you to start reading some of the stuff I've been providing links to and have you compare it with the traditional Christian literature so you can see the great difference. I know, however, I'm on the right track. You should checkout that link I gave to brandonreinhart for the "History of Europe and the Church." I read it way back in 1989-90 when I got it from the Worldwide Church of God through the mail. I was just able to relocate it on this computer a couple of days ago.

The religious organizations I favor have the best understanding of Bible prophecy I've seen. They're totally unique. What they do is monitor european politics as they form the United States of Europe, a superpower that's to be the last resurrection of the so-called Holy Roman Empire. There were a number of revivals of the Holy Roman Empire in past history. Hitler and Mussolini, Napoleon, and Charlemagne, for example. This one thats forming now is to be the last and will result in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ to destroy it and establish the Kingdom of God in its place. The prophecy fits the glove of history and the world situation we're in today perfectly.

I don't need that million bucks for kissing Hanks butt. Money and materialism isn't good for a long, healthy, and happy life. It stunts mental and moral growth and distracts from healthy pursuits. The way I see it, calorie restriction, when practiced under the communal living conditions I've mentioned previously on this thread, will be the first great wave of successful life extension. It won't cost money.

Edited by william, 21 June 2006 - 07:10 PM.

[the_eternal]

It must take considerable arrogance to have your particular stance on religion, you don't say it outright, but you imply that you do in fact have "perfect understanding of the scriptures" and that others are close and/or on the right path. No doubt this is the same reason you don't feel it necessary to question your views. Most of us atheists question our views every day and at the end of each day still reach the conclusion that we have chosen the best alternative of those available.

[william]

You're mistaken oh blasphemous one. I never said I had perfect understanding of the Scriptures. I also frequently question myself as well, but arrive at a different conclusion than you do.

The religious organizations I've been providing links to believe there will be private property, money and the eating of clean meats in the Kingdom of God. I see it just the opposite. I see Jesus and His followers as ascetics who were opposed to private property and money and favored communal living with the sharing of everything. Matthew 19:21-27; Acts 2:44,45; 4:32-35 (NIV). I'm also a vegetarian and believe God will impose the vegetarian diet He wasn't able to establish in the beginning due to Adam and Eve's disobedience and due to the "craving" for meat of the Israelites. Genesis 1:29,30; Numbers 11:4-34; Deuteronomy 12:20.

From a reading of the Scriptures I cite, who do you think is right, me or them?

[william]

That video was interesting Live Forever. But you got to admit it was an extreme oversimplification or gross distortion of how some false religions might proselytize and on how God has shown Himself in the Bible. The situation is much more complex than that. Have you and the others ever done a serious Bible study? Whether you believe or not you owe it to yourself to extend your knowledge of the Bible so gross distortions or propaganda like that video doesn't mislead you.

Wasn't that video a hank"conn" production? I know this thread is by his own admission. What's he doing, hanging out in Hollywood in his spare time?

[Karomesis]

Well, well, well. [:o] I can see it was a good thing for my fragile blood pressure and oxidative stress levels that I didn't click on this thread awhile back.

It would've been good for a laugh though [lol]

I was once in your shoes William, I can understand your quandary. I now have to side with De Sade though, when he says....."the idea of god is the one wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind".

Once you get your senses about you and can converse with logic and reason, like this site http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm will gladly teach you I suppose it would be interesting to talk to you about the many lies and complete contradictions in your silly book, realize this though....When you make absolute statements such as "all" or "forever" or everyone, you open the argument up to a single contradiction crumbling the entire edifice which you so carefully erected to dust before your eyes.

Edited by karomesis, 21 June 2006 - 08:03 PM.

[william]

brandonreinhart, I think you're probably right about my misunderstanding what you're trying to say. It's as if we're speaking in different languages. If you happen to get interested in the Bible, take a look at the free booklet "How To Understand The Bible" at http://www.gnmagazin...ts/UB/index.htm. It's a good place to start a serious Bible study.

[zoolander]

For the soccer fans

[Athanasios]

Im not trying to knock any religion or belief in particular when I say this, but I found it VERY helpful to learn how brainwashing/reprogramming is done. I also found it helpful to learn neuro-linguistic programming (NLP). With this background, and a little study about sociopaths, it is much easier to see clearly when presented with new ideas, belief systems, or even new friends/acquaintances .

[william]

Young lady, your body may be fully developed, but your brain isn't. See https://www.dartmout...2006/02/06.html. I've been studying correctional psychology for many years and know all about this De Sade character. What I want to know right now is what one of these young clowns put you up to coming over here? Was it DonSpanton, hankconn, or this knucklehead zoolander? I know Live Forever wouldn't do anything like this.

[zoolander]

Do you really think we need to recruit people to discuss these points with you?

[Karomesis]

William, I am a 27 year old man who is full control of all my faculties, you however, cannot say likewise.

Did you read my post? or conviniently ignore the parts that reduce your position to shambles?

Please reveiw it again and then we may discuss matters further.


And while we're on the topic of "psychology" have you had the chance to review Buss? or Pinker?


Evo psych will be where the progress is made in the future. Here are a few links to occupy your time until you can dialogue with me without resorting to silly books and unproven fallacies.

http://homepage.psy....ublications.htm

http://www.kurzweila...ex.html?flash=1

http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/EVOMEMLI.html

And since you seem to be a fan of De Sade as well, here is a link to some quotes

http://en.thinkexist...marquis_de_sade

and why not good ol niccolo too

http://www.brainyquo...achiavelli.html

You assert that because of the popularity of an opinion or belief, it more or less likely to be correalted to truth. The bible is the best selling book tells me absolutely nothing concerning the truth it contains, the massess are oftentimes prone to folly and superstition.

Edited by karomesis, 21 June 2006 - 07:46 PM.

[mikelorrey]

I don't need that million bucks for kissing Hanks butt. Money and materialism isn't good for a long, healthy, and happy life. It stunts mental and moral growth and distracts from healthy pursuits. The way I see it, calorie restriction, when practiced under the communal living conditions I've mentioned previously on this thread, will be the first great wave of successful life extension. It won't cost money.

William, this is so funny: you read the Book of Hank like a fundamentalist would: that Hank was a guy, and he really was talking about a million dollars and such.... are you constitutionally incapable of drawing inferences and deducing meaning and metaphor? Your obtuseness in this respect is rather more than even I expected from a fundamentalist.

[william]

karomesis, you're lying to me already young lady. I've studied a lot of criminal psychology and can spot a lie just like that. First, it's highly improbable that you're a man although it's not impossible. Second, you're younger than 27 and I'll bet all my money on it. If you are 27 at least you've confessed to your brain not being fully developed for too long. It's a small start towards the truth anyway. More than what these other young pups who've been trying to roast me around here have been doing.

Since your brain hasn't been developed for too long, you're going to be susceptible to the influence of the atheist writers. Guard your mind carefully so this garbage doesn't take control. Study my posts and the literature I've provided links to and prepare yourself to enter the Kingdom of God on earth so you can increase your lifespan and truly enjoy life.

I'll confess I've never heard of Buss or Pinker until today. I'm not familiar with the claims of evolutionary psychology either. When I was young like you I studied B.F. Skinner from inside the box, not from outside, if you know what I mean. I was studying books back then while in the "box" with titles like "Radical Psychology." My perspective on things is going to be superior than yours as a result.

I noticed you've edited your post to remove the part where you said something grand about evolutionary psychology doing something really big in the future. I guess you changed your mind on that. Am I correct? The only possible future I see for any psychology in aiding in the extension of lifespans is if it adapts itself to the communal setting in order to facilitate the process of teaching God's law and Christ's teachings to the children and monitoring the progress thereof.

What do you think of that guy cnorwood19? Seems like a nice civilized young man to me. He hasn't tried to roast me yet. Look at the nice long hair and the makings of a beard he's got. May be he's under a Nazarite vow according to Numbers 6:1-21. What do you think?
I never heard of the neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) he's talking about. I have read a little of Noam Chomsky's transformational grammar ideas if that is similar? I've also read a little of that Nazi concentration camp brainwashing psychology and I know a lot about sociopaths. Why don't you say hi to him and call him over.

Let me warn you from the start, I took this thread from hankconn after kicking his young butt. I fully intend to hold down my territory to the last. You're welcome to come and sing in my choir if you want to. I won't tolerate much of that nonsense.

Edited by william, 22 June 2006 - 02:22 PM.

[the_eternal]

You're "controlling" this thread because we've all had enough of our statements being shattered on your defensive wall of arrogance and dare I say it 'faith.' When you can have a civil discussion and consider both sides of the story then you might get some people back in here talking.

[william]

You're not saying anything oh blasphemous one. And it's called "defensive aggression" not arrogance. Read some Erich Fromm. You could write a book on arrogance I'm sure.

[zoolander]

william said:

karomesis, you're lying to me already young lady. I've studied a lot of criminal psychology and can spot a lie just like that. First, it's highly improbable that you're a man although it's not impossible.

God (pun intended), you are so arrogant. A Mr. know it all. Been there, done that, studied this.

The only possible future I see for any psychology in aiding in the extension of lifespans is if it adapts itself to the communal setting in order to facilitate the process of teaching God's law and Christ's teachings to the children and monitoring the progress thereof.

Your views are so 5 minutes ago. Some people have evolved.

What do you think of that guy cnorwood19? Seems like a nice civilized young man to me. He hasn't tried to roast me yet. Look at the nice long hair and the makings of a beard he's got.

Awesome. This pretty much sums it up for me. Surround yourself with people who conform to your views. Surround yourself with people who don't challenge what you have to say. Heaven forbid (pun intended again) that someone disagree or challenge your beliefs. Or else all hell (pun pun pun) might break loose.

Let me warn you from the start, I took this thread from hankconn after kicking his young butt.

I fully intend to hold down my territory to the last.

Why is that? I won't be so arrogant to say that I know but I will say that it seems as though your beliefs define you as a person and this is why you hold them so close. Without them you are nobody. Your more than your beliefs william. There is more to life than "God" or "God's laws" or "Buddha" or "whoever".

There is nothing to prove here. "Your" views, IMO, is just ego trying to solidify its existence. Ego trying to hide from the truth of non-existence.

[william]

zoolander, my young man, you miss the bigger picture. When you get to be my age and been there and read as much as I have, then you can be a know it all to. You're not the first one to call me a know it all, so I'm taking what you say under advisement for now. But remember this my young friend, when I was in the box, many people wanted to pay just to talk to me once in awhile. You kids should be thankful for the opportunity to do it for free.

[william]

And zoolander, in John 14:6 Jesus says: "I am the way and the truth and the life." What more to life are you talking about? You're not going to successfully achieve any substantial life extension without any knowledge of the Scriptures or without putting it into practice in the correct way. It's not going to happen anyother way.

[zoolander]

Ok william. Please advise me of your age and outline a brief history of your life.

I don't see what you get out of talking down to people in a condesending by referring to people as "young" all the time.

Most of what I know does not come from reading books or so-called scriptures. I have learnt from experiancing my environment with an open mind. The good, bad and neutral.

I am not guided by anyone apart from myself and what I have learnt from my experiances.

[DJS]

Wow, this thread has swung wildly off topic. It is now -- closed.

(Participants are welcome to start a new thread)