11 replies to this topic

[Daniel Cooper]

Anyone using wheatgerm as a spermidine source in order to induce autophagy?

 

If so, how much and how are you taking it?

 

 

 

[Harkijn]

I take  a number of tablespoons per day. I sprinkle a tablespoon on the watercress salad which I daily eat for sulforaphane. A peanut butter sandwich with wheatgerm is delicious. I believe one LC poster bakes wheatgerm cookies  but I am not sure if the spermidine can survive heating...

[Daniel Cooper]

I'll bet that spermidine would not survive the baking process.  I don't think it would be very heat stable.  

 

Looks to me like 10g of wheatgerm would have 2.4mg of spermidine?

 

What does wheatgerm taste like?  Nutty?

[Harkijn]

Yes, that could well be. For this reason I always use the raw variety not the toasted or 'thermally disembittered' varieties. I I also try to frequently eat fermented foods for spermidine, such as sauerkraut and kimchee.

In one of the other spermidine threads a poster described the toasted variety as nutty. I would say raw wheatgerm is rather neutral. You could sprinkle a spoonful on a plate of porridge and notice no difference in taste.

Polyamine metabolism is a complex affair. All cells contain spermidine but cancer cells produce more spermidine than healthy cells...

[Oakman]

I'll bet that spermidine would not survive the baking process.  I don't think it would be very heat stable.  

 

Looks to me like 10g of wheatgerm would have 2.4mg of spermidine?

 

What does wheatgerm taste like?  Nutty?

 

I'm the baker of the wheat germ cookies. Wheat germ proteins fair well under heat 130-150 deg C... according to this..

 

"Wheat germs are used as industrial products for nourishment so that it was necessary to determine the nutritive value of proteins in raw and in roasted wheat germs (temperature: 130-150 degrees C for 20 min). Protein quality evaluation has been determined by a biological method--feeding young growing rats. The rats were fed 10% level protein diets, based on raw and roasted wheat germs. The results show that protein of roasted wheat germs has higher digestibility (D) and protein efficiency ratio (PER) than the raw wheat germs which proves that roasting destroyed digestion enzymes inhibitors. Furthermore, the net protein utilization (NPU) has also been improved by roasting. Biological value (BV) of raw germs approximates to the value of roasted germs. The results lead us to the conclusion that roasting saves and improves protein parameters in wheat germs."

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/8121466

 

However, this product sheet for Japanese Wheat Polymine (Spermidine, spermine and putrescine are the most prevalent polyamine present in all living organisms) says it directly related to cooking...

 

"Heat Stability The decomposition of polyamine (without binder) upon heating was examined. As illustrated in Fig. 17, content of polyamine remain stable upon heating at normal food processing temperature 80°C for 60 min. However, degradation begins when heating temperature increased to 100°C for 60 min. Heating below 100°C is recommended if it is required for application."

 

Lots of add'l good info in this one > http://www.oryza.co....amine_vol.2.pdf

[Harkijn]

Thanks Oakman, very informative! At the risk of repeating dormant spermidine threads I would like to post a source for the somewhat darker side of spermidine.

https://www.research...ancer_Treatment

[Oakman]

I'll bet that spermidine would not survive the baking process.  I don't think it would be very heat stable.  

 

Looks to me like 10g of wheatgerm would have 2.4mg of spermidine?

 

What does wheatgerm taste like?  Nutty?

 

Just finishing my last batch of Spermidine cookies - um-um-good! As to taste of wheat germ, just tried some by itself and once you chew it reminds me of a sweetish dough, like gram cracker. However in the cookies, it's just part of the mix and un-noticeable really. The recipe I make gives ~1 mg spermidine per cookie, and I try to eat two per day.  I might try something with a more concentrated S ratio since the taste is pretty innocuous and I'd like to get more S.

[Turnbuckle]

You can buy spermidine from Amazon these days--5 grams or 25 grams.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 13 April 2019 - 10:31 AM.

[Oakman]

You can buy spermidine from Amazon these days--5 grams or 25 grams.

 

Thanks Turnbuckle, I saw that in your Spermidine thread and checked it out and may try it eventually. But I also like natural obtained sources and think that they may help the body produce more of its own polyamines like spermidine and spermine. Not only that, but mixing up a healthy snack is both fun and cathartic

 

BTW I just finished reading thru that thread (whew!) for more insight and ideas. Great resource! As a result, I'm creating a new Spermidine cookie recipe to including some of the topics discussed, while remaining a tasty, fiber and nutrient rich wheat germ snack. Additions include:

 

- DIY fermented wheat germ, aka similar to Avemar^TM (fermented WG extract) for its immunostimulatory effect

- agmatine, curcumin, and garcinol for their modulation of intracellular polyamines (EP300 inhibition)

- ground cashew nuts for any Anacardic acids (EP300 inhibition)

 

I've been on an "inhibit acetyltransferase" regimine recently and find it quite stimulating, and this should fit in nicely.

Edited by Oakman, 13 April 2019 - 04:43 PM.

[Woody42]

There are a lot of other food sources with green peas being one at 120mg per kilo 

and mushrooms at 88mg per kilo.  I know this is a lot lower than the 240mg per kilo

from weatgerm but if you look at the mg per calorie of food  either of those would

be a winner.  And mushrooms may have something else going for them with regard

to long term brain health.    

 

https://www.scienced...90312103702.htm

[Chris Pollyanna]

I try to get a couple of tablespoons of wheat germ every day, mixed together with blueberries, pomegranate, almonds & walnuts - tastes absolutely delicious! Hopefully the spermidine from the what germ & resveratrol from the blueberries act synergistically to induce autophagy, as per this article:

Spermidine and resveratrol induce autophagy by distinct pathways converging on the acetylproteome.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3044119/

 

Quote: " At doses at which neither resveratrol nor spermidine stimulated autophagy alone, these agents synergistically induced autophagy."

[Slobec]

maybe salicylic acid is enough for enached autophagy

 

https://www.scienced...21112471830192X

http://www.tavernara...ws/aspirins.pdf