7 replies to this topic

[Kimer Med]

As I mentioned in another post, I had problems with Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (DOMS) my whole life, until less than a year ago. I'm still getting used to the new way that my body works, and there are things about how it responds to exercise now that I don't understand. I feel a little stupid here, but with so many fitness experts out there these days, I'm hoping someone here might have the answers.

 

My first questions has to do with normal muscle soreness (DOMS pain is *much* different). A few hours or so after exercising now, my muscles get sore. Then the pain fades over the next day or so. The question I have is whether it's normal for the pain to also go away when I exercise again (with DOMS, this is never the case). For example, I sometimes notice my legs can be achy before I take my daily 30 minute walk, but then by the time I get back, the pain is 90% gone. If that is a normal response, can anyone explain what's happening biochemically? There's something going on that I clearly don't get.

 

Next, I walk 5 to 6 days a week. What I've noticed is that when I resume walking after skipping a day, that I'm noticeably stronger and faster than on the last exercise day. The feeling doesn't carry through to subsequent days, though. Again, is this normal, and if so, what's the biochemical explanation?

 

I'm also wondering whether a lactic acid suppressor like beta-alanine might help further reduce the pain I'm experiencing, and allow me to exercise longer and harder. Any idea?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

[Oakman]

As you had DOMS recently, normal advice may not apply to you. Also, wo your current age and general fitness level, it is difficult to offer anything other than general thoughts. General slight soreness comes from slight muscle injury that is normal, and useful to develop stronger muscle fibers. This should diminish over time if your workout is correct for your age/ability and recovery is done correctly.

 

If you do not have other issues, regular exercise with adequate recovery should diminish soreness, esp. wit something as benign as walking. If not, there may be other underlying or contributing issues, e.g., other health issues, nutrition, workout schedule, lack of recovery, etc.

 

Speaking of recovery, this is highly important for progress to be made rather than poor outcome/injury from exercise. You feel stronger after recover because you are stronger. Recovery is essential and often neglected. I use HR zone training during exercise, and HRV (Heart Rate Variability) tracking daily to gauge recover time, as it is not 'just feeling ok', 'feeling rested' or things of the sort. HR zone training and HRV can easily be measured with a smartphone, an app, and your finger, although it is not the most accurate method, it's better than guessing on recovery.

 

When I was younger and not as wise in these things, I used to regularly get sore, injure myself, and generally not improve because of it. Now I pay attention to nutrition, recovery, and not over-exercising and have leap-frogged greatly over my previous fitness levels of my younger self.

 

I doubt any one supplement is going to help you much, rather a concerted and comprehensive nutrition and energy plan might be something you want to develop for yourself.

Edited by Oakman, 19 February 2019 - 02:50 PM.

[Kimer Med]

Thanks; that's helpful.

 

I have a Polar device to accurately measure HRV, so that's an easy thing to do regularly.

 

FWIW, I'm a 60 yo male, 6 ft tall, 177 lbs. I don't know how to gauge my overall fitness level. I can walk about a mile a day without much difficulty, but I fatigue relatively easily with isometric / weight-lifting type exercises. I'd say my overall health is "just OK." I'm hypothyroid (treated) and have low cortisol (treated), and probably some osteoarthritis. My overall energy level feels low, and muscle and joint aches develop easily. My diet and supplement programs are excellent (though not particularly focused on fitness), and I carefully and thoroughly monitor my overall body chemistry.

 

[Oakman]

Thanks; that's helpful.

 

I have a Polar device to accurately measure HRV, so that's an easy thing to do regularly.

 

FWIW, I'm a 60 yo male, 6 ft tall, 177 lbs. I don't know how to gauge my overall fitness level. I can walk about a mile a day without much difficulty, but I fatigue relatively easily with isometric / weight-lifting type exercises. I'd say my overall health is "just OK." I'm hypothyroid (treated) and have low cortisol (treated), and probably some osteoarthritis. My overall energy level feels low, and muscle and joint aches develop easily. My diet and supplement programs are excellent (though not particularly focused on fitness), and I carefully and thoroughly monitor my overall body chemistry.

 

My far from expert opinion is that you are not far from 'normal', if that's even a thing. Are you improving, or just maintaining? What else beside walking do you do and what supps do you use, esp. as related to your helping inflammation and exercise performance?

[Kimer Med]

My far from expert opinion is that you are not far from 'normal', if that's even a thing. Are you improving, or just maintaining? What else beside walking do you do and what supps do you use, esp. as related to your helping inflammation and exercise performance?

 

I may be improving, although somewhat slowly. It's hard to describe. As I said in the OP, some days I feel stronger, other days much weaker. Some days very achy, some days only minor aches. When I do work around the house that requires a lot of lifting and bending, I can get quite sore. I almost always wake up with joint pain, in spite of my supplements, though it usually almost entirely goes away within a few hours after waking.

 

Walking 30 min per day, 5 to 6 days/week, is my only exercise. If weather keeps me from walking as much as I'd like, I try to do a little weight lifting instead (usually just one set of 10 squats while holding and lifting 2 x 20 lb hand weights).

 

My supplements:

• Acetyl-L-Carnitine
• Alpha Lipoic Acid
• Benfotiamine
• Biotin
• Boron
• Carnosine
• Chromium
• CoQ10
• Curcumin
• Digestive Enzymes
• Fish Oil
• Glucomannan
• Glycine
• Lithium Orotate
• Magnesium
• Melatonin
• Methyl-B12 (usually sublingual; currently trying injectable)
• Methylfolate
• Multiple Mineral
• Niacinamide Riboside (currently on a break)
• NMN
• Plant Sterols
• Resveratrol
• Taurine
• Vit A
• Vit B-complex
• Extra Vit B2
• Extra Vit B5
• Vit D3
• Vit E (Gamma)
• Vit K1 and K2
• Zinc

I don't take the Boron, Lithium, Lipoic Acid, Zinc and Vit A every day; the rest I do.

[Oakman]

You might try a complete break from your supps and see what happens, a break lets your body settle to a natural state for a few weeks. Then gradually add supps back to gauge results, and pare down to essentials, remove any causing bad or no positive effects. Only other thought re:lack of energy is cardiovascular issues. They certainly can bring on weakness, lack of ability to exercise, etc. Things like low blood pressure, poor circulation, and heart issues could be culprits, so might be worth looking into.

 

I've been working at improving my physical state for a while, years really, but am currently 10 yrs your senior. I can walk for 5-10 miles if need be, bike 15-35 miles regularly and with little tiredness, no soreness afterwards. Maybe it's just practice makes this possible, because when I started decades ago, I'd get shin splints after walking only a short distance, and hadn't ridden a bike in years. Good luck and keep working at it!

[Kimer Med]

I do take regular breaks from my supplements, with gradual add-backs, as you suggested. The last cycle ended just a few weeks ago.

 

My resting BP is around 110/70, but it can drop to 80/50 when I stand up; I can get a little dizzy as a result. Doc says my heart is OK, although my typical morning HRV seems low to me compared to what others are reporting (around 50, as measured by Polar). Resting heart rate is typically around 70; during exercise can be in the 150 range. Not sure how to evaluate circulation, other than an MRI and Heart Scan about 10 yrs ago showed no arterial calcification in my heart or neck.

 

Your level of fitness for your age sounds great. Congratulations. I hope I can do as well!

 

[Oakman]

Your stats vs mine are paradoxical, I guess you could say, as they are quite similar. I use a 'HVR4 Training' app that shows a 30 day aveage of 46.4 rMSSD. It indicates ~HRV 50 (rMSSD) is about mid-range for all 50+ yr olds in their database vs. about 75-80 for all ages. Last 30 day my resting HR average is 52 BPM. Both stats are taken when I wake, before I get up. 

 

My typical BP is somewhere in the range of yours, maybe 115/65 (arm cuff). My max exercise HR has been 160-170, but when not trying to beat my best times, I try to stay under 150, and average 135-140 BPM.  I also use 'My HRM' app and a wrist HR monitor that gives constant verbal range announcements while exercising so as to be able to use the feedback to manage effort and HR.

 

I figure getting adequate oxygenated and nutrient laden blood efficiently distributed throughout the body is a prerequisite to overall health and longevity, regardless of age, so I keep working at it.

 

 

Edited by Oakman, 20 February 2019 - 05:55 PM.