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High estradiol, testosterone and shbg

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#1 Fractalll112

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 09:08 PM


Hi,

 

I recently did hormone panels few times because of terribly low libido and erectile dysfunction. My libido basically does not exist, I could not fap at all. i just do it to check if my erections get better. My girlfriend didn't help at all. I am 21 and it's slowly getting anoying. When everything was fine i would bang everything that is moving. 

 

Beginning of January

Prolcatine 504 mIU/l (norm to 324)
Estradiol 66,60 pg/ml (norm to 43,2)

LH 9,7 mIU/ml (norm to 8,6)

FSH 1,91 mIU/ml (norm from 1,5 to 12,40)

Testosterone 29,96 nmol/l (norm to 27,90)

 

I got prescribed dostinex 0,5mg, 1/2 pill once a week.

beginning of february

Prolactine decreased to about 100 mIU/l

Testorone rised to 1000 ng/dl (norm to 800)

SHBG 68 nmol/l

Estradiol same as it was 

 

Basically no libido improvement, it is almost as bad as it was. I think erection is like 10% better but still weak.

 

 

I got prescribed symex 25mg, 0.5 pill everyday but I stopped after one week. I felt after one pill that my penis is not even al dente anymore, it's like almost boiled but hell no ready to eat xd I stopped after one week because i realised that the dose is way too big. 

 

 

 

What got improved is my confidence, mood, motivation. I feel mentally much better despite the fact that I coudn't have sex like last 10 times I tried and lost a girlfriend. I feel pretty good despite those things.

What should I do? It lasts for a year. Should I try to lower shbg? Try with way lower symex dose? I didn't really feel decrease in my mood due to high dose symex, only to erectile things.


Edited by Fractalll112, 25 February 2019 - 09:10 PM.


#2 healthnwealth

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 09:55 AM

I'm in a similar situation.

946 Testosterone
32.1 E2
58.2 nmol/L SHBG

I'm pretty sure its caused by SHBG at this point. I'm on Clomid 50mg EOD. I was also taking Arimidex but have stopped as I believe i'm just tanking my E2 and its caused joint problems along with even worse ED and libido issues.

 

I'm located in Thailand and can basically buy everything OTC. I'm experimenting now with 50mg ED of Proviron (Mesterolone) for the first 3 days. Then I'll drop it down to 25mg ED.

 

I'm also dosing Boron 9mg ED and Zinc

 

Reports from others have given it favorable reviews for increasing libido and resolving ED issues. I'm on day 2. Reports indicate a big increase in libido from day 5 onwards. Proviron is supposed to counteract the high SHBG levels from what i've read. 



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#3 Fractalll112

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 10:04 AM

I've been taking Symex for one week and I suppose E2 dropped as low as it could and after I stopped taking it, it started rising. While it was rising, after about 4-5 days, I suppose it was in almost perfect point because libido was almost as good as it should and erection was like 90% of what it should be. One day later the good effect decreased a bit. So I am not sure whether it's SHBG or E2. I ordered boron and zinc so I will check this out and give a follow up. I also took today very low Symex dose, like 1/5 or 1/6 of a pill. 

 

I've also read that taking proviron in long term might cause in blocking pituitary hormones.


Edited by Fractalll112, 27 February 2019 - 10:07 AM.


#4 MankindRising

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 05:16 PM

I'm in a similar situation.

946 Testosterone
32.1 E2
58.2 nmol/L SHBG

I'm pretty sure its caused by SHBG at this point. I'm on Clomid 50mg EOD. I was also taking Arimidex but have stopped as I believe i'm just tanking my E2 and its caused joint problems along with even worse ED and libido issues.

 

I'm located in Thailand and can basically buy everything OTC. I'm experimenting now with 50mg ED of Proviron (Mesterolone) for the first 3 days. Then I'll drop it down to 25mg ED.

 

I'm also dosing Boron 9mg ED and Zinc

 

Reports from others have given it favorable reviews for increasing libido and resolving ED issues. I'm on day 2. Reports indicate a big increase in libido from day 5 onwards. Proviron is supposed to counteract the high SHBG levels from what i've read. 

AI and SERM is going to kill your libido, if you want libido you have to drop that.

Your brain needs certain estrogen and estrogen metabolites, as long as your going to keep throwing an AI or a SERM in your body you can forget about that happening.

 

Its your choice.



#5 Fractalll112

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 05:38 PM

Why is AI going to kill libido if the dose is small to enough to keep the E2 on normal levels? Mine is elevated to 67 pg/ml which is too high and my libido is dead anyway on such level. 



#6 MankindRising

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 07:51 PM

Why is AI going to kill libido if the dose is small to enough to keep the E2 on normal levels? Mine is elevated to 67 pg/ml which is too high and my libido is dead anyway on such level. 

You dont get it do you, the brain is the most powerfull sexual organ that there is and blocking aromatase in the brain has profound effect on libido. The brain contains estrogen receptors that are very important in MALE sexual desire aswell.

 

You can try doing an AI, but my guess is that taking estrogen down in the blood through an AI will lower estrogen in the brain too much. First sign will be cracking joints and stuff like that and after that your libido will be dead till the drug is out of your system.

 

Id suggest you stay away from letro btw that stuff is way too strong and by the looks your general knowledge on the subject (dont see this offensive as im here to try and help you) is very limited.

A very low dose arimidex would be the best option if you decide to use an AI. Another problem is constant blood monitoring that has to be done, your SHBG, T, E, T:E ratio, T:DHT ratio, prolactin all have to be within a certain range for your libido to work. On top that there are also neurosteroids (including estrogen and the whole lot) and neurotransmitters that have to be in harmony with eachother.

 

PS: your SHBG is insanely high, Ive never seen that in anyone their bloodwork. I wonder what the reason might be, did your libido get crushed recently? did you use any drugs or AAS? A high SHBG like that is unheard of imo and it seems your body is 'attempting' to increase androgen sensitivity/binding by increasing total testosterone production. Also have you done a 23andme test?


Edited by MankindRising, 27 February 2019 - 07:57 PM.


#7 MankindRising

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 07:59 PM

I'm in a similar situation.

946 Testosterone
32.1 E2
58.2 nmol/L SHBG

I'm pretty sure its caused by SHBG at this point. I'm on Clomid 50mg EOD. I was also taking Arimidex but have stopped as I believe i'm just tanking my E2 and its caused joint problems along with even worse ED and libido issues.

 

I'm located in Thailand and can basically buy everything OTC. I'm experimenting now with 50mg ED of Proviron (Mesterolone) for the first 3 days. Then I'll drop it down to 25mg ED.

 

I'm also dosing Boron 9mg ED and Zinc

 

Reports from others have given it favorable reviews for increasing libido and resolving ED issues. I'm on day 2. Reports indicate a big increase in libido from day 5 onwards. Proviron is supposed to counteract the high SHBG levels from what i've read. 

Why are you on clomid anyway, the only reason I can see people getting on that crap is for fertility. AI's and SERM's make one feel like death.



#8 healthnwealth

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 08:44 PM

Why are you on clomid anyway, the only reason I can see people getting on that crap is for fertility. AI's and SERM's make one feel like death.

I've been on Clomid for a little over 3 years. It was going great for ~2 years and then adding in an AI (Arimidex) ended up starting something I was never able to solve. I tanked my E2 levels and haven't felt the same since. I took a 6 month break from Clomid, redid my bloods, and wasn't feeling that great although everything returned back to the baseline levels. I'm trying my options before having to resort to a needle.



#9 John250

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 01:38 AM

Hi,

I recently did hormone panels few times because of terribly low libido and erectile dysfunction. My libido basically does not exist, I could not fap at all. i just do it to check if my erections get better. My girlfriend didn't help at all. I am 21 and it's slowly getting anoying. When everything was fine i would bang everything that is moving.

Beginning of January
Prolcatine 504 mIU/l (norm to 324)
Estradiol 66,60 pg/ml (norm to 43,2)
LH 9,7 mIU/ml (norm to 8,6)
FSH 1,91 mIU/ml (norm from 1,5 to 12,40)
Testosterone 29,96 nmol/l (norm to 27,90)

I got prescribed dostinex 0,5mg, 1/2 pill once a week.
beginning of february
Prolactine decreased to about 100 mIU/l
Testorone rised to 1000 ng/dl (norm to 800)
SHBG 68 nmol/l
Estradiol same as it was

Basically no libido improvement, it is almost as bad as it was. I think erection is like 10% better but still weak.


I got prescribed symex 25mg, 0.5 pill everyday but I stopped after one week. I felt after one pill that my penis is not even al dente anymore, it's like almost boiled but hell no ready to eat xd I stopped after one week because i realised that the dose is way too big.



What got improved is my confidence, mood, motivation. I feel mentally much better despite the fact that I coudn't have sex like last 10 times I tried and lost a girlfriend. I feel pretty good despite those things.
What should I do? It lasts for a year. Should I try to lower shbg? Try with way lower symex dose? I didn't really feel decrease in my mood due to high dose symex, only to erectile things.


Are you taking anything that could have caused your levels to be that way? Did they do a pituitary MRI? Be very careful with cabergoline as dopamine agonists as can cause a serious withdrawal when you stop them .

That is odd that cabergoline raise your testosterone levels that high as it’s only a dopamine agonist. I’m thinking you have some type of pituitary tumor I would suggest an MRI I hope that’s not the case though. It also won’t do anything for estrogen only prolactin.

Symex is just Aromasin which is potent And must be taken with a meal containing fat for best absorption. 12.5 ever day is way too much that will tank your estrogen levels which makes libido and lots of other side effects much worse. 12.5 3x/wk should be sufficient enough to manage your estrogen and that intern should lower prolactin if you don’t have some type of a tumor. I would suggest ruling that out first and then talk to your doctor about either testosterone replacement therapy via testosterone Cypionate or a gel or look into
enclomiphene citrate. It’s a newer version of Clomid that basically does not come with all the side effects Columbia typically does. It will increase testosterone levels very well and still keep luteinizing hormone in range so you won’t have any issues with sperm count and quality.

Standard Clomid(Clomiphene citrate) can increase estrogen quite high but I’m not positive on Enclomiphene. Regardless he would want bloodwork to make sure and that would let you know if you still need to use Aromasin.

#10 Fractalll112

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 07:43 AM

Well I forgot to mention T1 Diabetes from 10 years, though it's well regulated and I don't have any complications from diabetes. I am not taking any additional medicine, only insuline. I did a pituitary MRI and everything is fine, no tumor there. 

 

Cabergoline as dopamine agonist is lowering prolactine. My doc said that prolactine is blocking testosterone but I am not sure whether it's blocking the production of testosterone or already produced one. I suppose that it's blocking produced one so I am not sure why testosterone has risen. 

 

I will change my doctor because this one already doesn't know what's going on. Endocrynologists in Poland would prefer to only cure women with thyroid problems and no one else. 

 

As I said before, when I was taking 12.5mg Symex libido was zero, mood was fine but erection was terrible. 4 days after stopping everything was almost as good as it should but next two days it faded away. 

 

I don't know if it is about hitting the perfect level of E2 or something else. 



#11 MankindRising

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 08:02 AM

Well I forgot to mention T1 Diabetes from 10 years, though it's well regulated and I don't have any complications from diabetes. I am not taking any additional medicine, only insuline. I did a pituitary MRI and everything is fine, no tumor there. 

 

Cabergoline as dopamine agonist is lowering prolactine. My doc said that prolactine is blocking testosterone but I am not sure whether it's blocking the production of testosterone or already produced one. I suppose that it's blocking produced one so I am not sure why testosterone has risen. 

 

I will change my doctor because this one already doesn't know what's going on. Endocrynologists in Poland would prefer to only cure women with thyroid problems and no one else. 

 

As I said before, when I was taking 12.5mg Symex libido was zero, mood was fine but erection was terrible. 4 days after stopping everything was almost as good as it should but next two days it faded away. 

 

I don't know if it is about hitting the perfect level of E2 or something else. 

Your doc is a clown and should retire, you allready proven that by when taking the dostinex your T goes up even further and Im pretty sure you E2 went through the roof then too.

When I experimented with dostinex (as a DA agonist) to see if it did anything for my ADHD and ASD it dropped my prolactin below the range at some point (my prolactin is normally *imo* somewhat on the high side around threequarters into the max limit, so I was like fuck it lets try this). Any way what I remember from my bloodtests is that it did skyrocket my allready normal T (28ish im always at) and free T (mid-mid high range) to everything high. Now this was accompanied by some typical arrogance, overconfidence and typical dickhead type of behavior so I was actually surprised it could even increase T in physically healthy people. Any way long story short it did jack shit for my libido, if anything due to to arrogance I found myself less interested in women, it was like: 'meh do I really want to hang around or have sex with this dumb*ss useless b*tch?'
Also cabergoline itself hits some serotonin receptors, which doesnt agree with a lot of people for libido.

 

If I was ever to go with another dopamine agonist to try and up my mood/mental functioning I would go with piribedil.


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#12 Fractalll112

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 08:15 AM

E2 rised like from 66,2 to 67,5, so basically it didn't even move. 

 

And wow, what you are saying about arrogance, overconfidence and dickhead behaviour is like 100% true. I don't have really problems with dating women but after like last 3 girls I dated I had a feeling that I am on completely different level than them and they are worthless. I didn't even have motivation to continue the relation to sleep with them, even though I know they wanted that. I can't really complain about it, I used to behave opposite. I wasn't very confident.

 

My T was high before - 29,96 and it went through the roof to almost 35. I will check T, free T and E2. 

 

I also had problems with acne for some time. What I observed is that after decreasing E2 it calmed down very nicely and after stoping symex it became active again. 



#13 John250

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 01:14 PM

Low LH with low testosterone is secondary hypogonadism which can be very common however high LH with low testosterone is Primary gonadal failure. Did you ever have any testicular damage? Mumps as a child?

I thought the diabetes would’ve played a role but typically that causes secondary hypogonadism where testosterone would be low but so would LH and FSH.

The acne with elevated LH lead me to think possible hypergonadism but natural testosterone would’ve been high.
Have you had your kidneys checked because that could play a role?
https://www.healthli...gonadism#causes

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC1472884/

https://www.verywell...failure-3522431

https://www.healthli...th/hypogonadism

https://www.merckman...ldren#v29301893

Your LH is just slightly high though. Did you have LH checked after using the cabergoline when your testosterone increased?

And when your estrogen did not change much was that bloodwork after using the Symex?

Edited by John250, 28 February 2019 - 01:27 PM.

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#14 Fractalll112

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 02:02 PM

No, I didn't have any testicular damage neither mumps as a child. I checked up hypergonadism and to be honest I haven't experienced any symptoms of that(precocious pubery, excessive hairiness, rapid growth when younger)

My LH is elevated, natural T was high, minimally above the norm. 

Yes, i checked FSH and LH after using cabergoline it was one the same level as it was before. 

LH 9,4 mIU/ml (norm to 8,6)

FSH 1,58 mIU/ml (norm from 1,5 to 12,40)

 

 

I didn't check E2 after using Symex, it was after cabergoline. I was thinking about getting MRI of adrenal gland. I checked creatinin before pituitary MRI and it was totally fine. I will do my blood tests again soon. 


Edited by Fractalll112, 28 February 2019 - 02:06 PM.


#15 MankindRising

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 04:46 PM

Low LH with low testosterone is secondary hypogonadism which can be very common however high LH with low testosterone is Primary gonadal failure. Did you ever have any testicular damage? Mumps as a child?

I thought the diabetes would’ve played a role but typically that causes secondary hypogonadism where testosterone would be low but so would LH and FSH.

The acne with elevated LH lead me to think possible hypergonadism but natural testosterone would’ve been high.
Have you had your kidneys checked because that could play a role?
https://www.healthli...gonadism#causes

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC1472884/

https://www.verywell...failure-3522431

https://www.healthli...th/hypogonadism

https://www.merckman...ldren#v29301893

Your LH is just slightly high though. Did you have LH checked after using the cabergoline when your testosterone increased?

And when your estrogen did not change much was that bloodwork after using the Symex?

His FAI and free testosterone is most likely bad due to high SHBG, basically his body is saying: help I need this testosterone to bind to AR but due to some damage or predisposed genetic problems he might have his body is saying NOPE. What happens then is his pituary keeps signalling LH to his balls to up T in an attempt to raise free T but it keeps failing by the looks, a vicious circle.

 

OP could try take some tongkat ali, thats supposed to increase free T. I tried it a few times, stuff makes me super aggressive its deffo not for me. It works very different than regular t-boosters as I got no problem with taking ashwagandha and stuff like that for wellbeing.



#16 Fractalll112

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 08:50 PM

What I've learned is that lowering E2 lowers SHBG so I think I will try taking symex like 5-6mg every 2-3 days and check my E2, SHBG and T levels after 10 days.



#17 John250

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 11:31 AM

Keep us posted because I’m very curious on this. I’ve never seen naturally high LH with naturally low testosterone it’s always vice versa.

Maybe get your Neurosteroids like dhea, progesterone and pregnenolone checked as well.

And thyroid is that plays a pretty big role as well.

Edited by John250, 02 March 2019 - 11:35 AM.


#18 Fractalll112

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 11:39 AM

But my testosterone is naturally high, when I've done hormone panel before taking any medicine it was on 29,96 nmol/l where norm was up to 27,90 nmol/l. It went through the roof to 35 nmol/l after taking dostinex, where LH didn't move a bit.

 

I suppose high LH and low T would go with some huge testicles insuffiency.


Edited by Fractalll112, 02 March 2019 - 11:40 AM.


#19 John250

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 12:18 PM

But my testosterone is naturally high, when I've done hormone panel before taking any medicine it was on 29,96 nmol/l where norm was up to 27,90 nmol/l. It went through the roof to 35 nmol/l after taking dostinex, where LH didn't move a bit.

I suppose high LH and low T would go with some huge testicles insuffiency.


Ahhhh I see now. You have a much different reference range than I do. Our reference range is 250-1100 ng/dL

27.9nmol/nmol/l would be 836.418 ng/dL I believe so that’s pretty good.

I guess it’s much better to have Hypergonadism than Hypogonadism. One of my wife’s ex-boyfriend had micropenis from Hypogonadism. I guess his mom worked in a plastic factory in high exposure to BPA she was pregnant is what caused it. Doctors were ignorant if they gave him testosterone before puberty it would’ve grown but apparently it didn’t lol. She said she didn’t care it was more awkward how insecure he was but I was like OK you have to give me an example of what it looked like and there was a bottle of Krazy glue on the counter and she said exactly like that. I was like no way and I measured it. It was barely 3”x3” so I googled it and it turns out it’s true. I actually felt really bad for him after hearing that.

https://www.dontcook...hormone-lh-men/

https://www.healthli...h/hypergonadism

Borderline High LH levels

Slightly elevated LH levels (8.0 – 10.0 range) can be caused by medications or untreated autoimmune disorders. A number of studies have linked Celiac’s Disease with slightly elevated LH. Men with untreated Celiac’s disease can have moderately high LH levels, that usually return to normal upon starting a gluten-free diet.

#20 Fractalll112

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 12:43 PM

Well f*ck, it might Celiac's disease. I don't really see many symptoms, maybe few but it could still be going on unrecognized. I'll do my tests soon. Thanks.



#21 MankindRising

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 03:07 PM

Well f*ck, it might Celiac's disease. I don't really see many symptoms, maybe few but it could still be going on unrecognized. I'll do my tests soon. Thanks.

You need to address your SHBG and up your free T, unless you do that you can forget about your dick working.

The whole reason your numbers are out of whack is cause you have poor AR binding/low free T, which is like I said either due to high SHBG or some genetic issue.

 

Tongkat ali would be my first bet if I was you (from what Ive seen with guys that have high SHBG), if that fails you could try stinging nettle, if that fails well Im pretty sure your fucked and will have to go on shots. The reason I say this is cause (I do lots of reading on aging, so including fertility) SHBG normally elevates with age.

In fact men their total T levels barely drop with age generally speaking, what does change though is their SHBG increases and free T drops.

 

Anyway look into that and stop random self-doctoring if you dont know what your doing.


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#22 healthnwealth

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 09:38 AM

I'm in a similar situation.

946 Testosterone
32.1 E2
58.2 nmol/L SHBG

I'm pretty sure its caused by SHBG at this point. I'm on Clomid 50mg EOD. I was also taking Arimidex but have stopped as I believe i'm just tanking my E2 and its caused joint problems along with even worse ED and libido issues.

 

I'm located in Thailand and can basically buy everything OTC. I'm experimenting now with 50mg ED of Proviron (Mesterolone) for the first 3 days. Then I'll drop it down to 25mg ED.

 

I'm also dosing Boron 9mg ED and Zinc

 

Reports from others have given it favorable reviews for increasing libido and resolving ED issues. I'm on day 2. Reports indicate a big increase in libido from day 5 onwards. Proviron is supposed to counteract the high SHBG levels from what i've read. 

 

I'm happy to report my ED and libido issues are more or less gone at this point. There is still the psychological fear of not being able to get hard when the time comes and i'm slowly lowering my dosages of Viagra.

 

I've increased the Proviron dosages back up to 50mg ED. I'm not using any AI currently. I would say the Proviron + Zinc + Boron combo took ~5 days before I began noticing changes. I was on Boron at 6mg and Zinc before Proviron and was still having ED/libido issues so I attribute the success here mostly to Proviron.



#23 Fractalll112

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 08:36 PM

That's nice to hear that. I ordered tongkat ali but haven't noticed any difference since 3 weeks. 

I also started taking boron but I don't know why my balls were hurting. Maybe not hurting, but I felt them like they were too overloaded with production or something like that. 

 

Do you have to take proviron constantly to keep the effects? Does taking it for a long time have any side effects?



#24 healthnwealth

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 08:38 AM

I've been off Proviron for a week now. Libido has gone down but no ED. I'm not sure what dosing pattern is ideal as I don't want to take it daily.

 

I have read it is prescribed for long term use for impotence and seems safe.  I have not noticed any side effects.

 

Maca root is also good for libido. Get the gelatinized version.

 

Also check your body temperature a few times per day. If its below 37c considering supplementing Iodine at 1mg/day or more. That has made a huge difference for me in overall well being and energy levels.



#25 Fractalll112

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 01:40 PM

How are you? Still off with the effects going?

 

I will get proviron in few days and start experimenting. 

 

Isn't Iodine used in thyroid treatment? Is it safe if your thyroid is totally fine?



#26 healthnwealth

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 03:28 PM

Went back on Proviron 50 ED for the time being. Libido been down and no morning wood etc. Back on Proviron for 3 days already got the morning wood back. I'm going to try and go to 25mg EOD. Currently on 25mg ED.

 

If your thyroid levels and body temp are fine then I see no need to supplement with iodine but a small dose wouldn't hurt.

 

I think it's possible we are in the same boat and have high SHBG which is causing some of these issues. Take the Proviron in the morning then in the evening as the maximum serum concentration occurs around 1.6 hours after taking it.

 

I've tried damn near everything but nothing works as good as Proviron. Had sex last night and then again tonight. Strong erection the entire time like teenage years.



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#27 Fractalll112

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 07:18 AM

Well getting proviron in Poland is pretty hard because you have to import it from Germany. Bayer has no license in Poland for this drug.

What in my opinion could cause it in my case was way too much testosterone(hipergonadism?) in puberty and my body created a self defense reaction or something like that and increased SHBG and aromatisation to e2 if it makes any sense. In high school I could walk like a half day with a boner and I was horny af. When those symptoms went away I started having problems with acne, which might be caused my too high e2 an T. Still not sure if it makes any sense from biological point of view. 







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