8 replies to this topic

[jacobjerondin]

Title basically says it all, was taking doxylamine succinate 25mgs for around a month now for sleep. The sleep was pretty good quality until last week when I decided I should get off the antihistamines and started tapering down. It seems like the lower I go the worse quality my sleep is and if I don't take any, I can't fall asleep at all after lying there for like 30 min. The weird thing is that even a really small portion of a pill, maybe like 5mg or so still really helps me fall asleep although I start waking up every hour or so once morning comes around.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get off these antihistamines and return my sleep cycle to normal? It's really frustrating because I've been feeling fatigued and a little out of it since I started reducing my dosage but I'm worried about memory problems if I keep taking it so I really want to be off asap without compromising my sleep (I'm a pretty busy college so I need to be able to sleep well, I can't really afford to miss a night of decent sleep at least).

[MankindRising]

Have you tried targetting your sleep by increasing SIRT1 in the morning instead and thereby stabilizing your circadian rhythm? A mild pde5i in the morning such as icariin is claimed to help stabilize this too, please note that this has to be done instantly upon awakening/early morning.

 

Another thing you have to realise is the fact you want your sleep cycle to instantly become normal might not be something thats actually achievable, it is most likely going to take some time and the more you stress out over it, the more likely your sleep quality is going to suffer.

[Galaxyshock]

I would taper off and use a z-drug and time release melatonin couple of weeks for sleep as your histaminergic system normalizes.

[jacobjerondin]

I would taper off and use a z-drug and time release melatonin couple of weeks for sleep as your histaminergic system normalizes.

I don't really have access to z-drugs and I understand they're kinda habit forming. I'm really trying to watch out for using anything that works too strongly on GABA for sleep since I just recently got off a couple month long dependency on Phenibut as you may remember. I do take melatonin 0.3 mgs every night but it doesn't seem to do much to even induce sleep these days, which is probably because my histaminergic system is fucked up. I think the best option for me is to slowly taper the doxylamine and/or maybe trying using a bit of benadryl to get off it, that stuff knocks me out too and doesn't seem very cross tolerant surprisingly.

 

Have you tried targetting your sleep by increasing SIRT1 in the morning instead and thereby stabilizing your circadian rhythm? A mild pde5i in the morning such as icariin is claimed to help stabilize this too, please note that this has to be done instantly upon awakening/early morning.

 

Another thing you have to realise is the fact you want your sleep cycle to instantly become normal might not be something thats actually achievable, it is most likely going to take some time and the more you stress out over it, the more likely your sleep quality is going to suffer.

I haven't, no. My circadian rhythm does tend to be a bit all over the place and messed up since I'm in college and tend to sleep around 2 - 4am and wake at around 10:30 - 12:30 pm. I feel like the underlying issue is my histaminergic system being out of wack, not my circadian rhythm. I used to naturally get tired at like 2am but now I feel kind of awake all day until I take an antihistamine. Clearly my body has adapted to it and probably upregulated histamine production/downregulated receptors or something.

 

I do have some really good Icariin extract but I've been kind of wary of using it as anything that lowers my blood sugar too much tends to make me fell bad, I have a family history of diabetes and have struggling with avoiding hypoglycemia. That doesn't tend to be a problem that keeps me from sleeping though.

 

And yeah I definitely recognize that this will take some time and I shouldn't stress, thanks man.

[jacobjerondin]

I do have some 1,4 BDO (which is basically extended release GHB) and I've used that pretty successfully for insomnia for like a week or so before (so maybe if I do that again my histaminergic system can recover within that time). I think I noticed some rebound insomnia coming off it but I think I managed to fall asleep eventually unlike now when I just can't seem to fall asleep without the antihistamines.

[adamh]

Try corydalis extract, its good for sleep and also helps with aches and pains. The purified crystal is the best, 100 mg and you will sleep. It is not habit forming and is not gabaergic

[jacobjerondin]

Try corydalis extract, its good for sleep and also helps with aches and pains. The purified crystal is the best, 100 mg and you will sleep. It is not habit forming and is not gabaergic

 

You know I actually have the purified crystal in a great extract from badmonkeybotanicals (despite their bad rep I think they're pretty legit.

 

It does knock me out like a light but I'm worried about the risk of tardive dyskinesia from the dopamine antagonism. More importantly, it seems to make me kinda hungry which is not at all what I want before bed (I already have appetite issues) and it 's known to raise blood sugar and cause weight gain (which I also have issues with). I wish there was something as effective as corydalis that didn't have all these issues.

[Jiminy Glick]

5-htp, buy the powder from a company like Bulk Supplements. I had the same problem. 

[jacobjerondin]

Idk about 5-htp, I tend to agree with Ray Peat's thoughts that serotonin is a stress hormone and should generally be kept as low as possible within the normal range. Plus a lot of people report GI issues from 5-htp and I'm pretty sure my guy microbiome already isn't in the greatest shape.

 

My current plan is to try taking either some benzos like etizolam or pregabalin/lyrica for a week to let my histaminergic system recover and then taper off them over another week and be back to sleeping without needing to take anything.

Edited by jacobjerondin, 31 March 2019 - 01:30 AM.