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Is Holy Basil safe for men looking to be and feel as androgenic as possible (risks of HTPA shutdown and/or DHT lowering)

holy basil androgen anabolic hpta

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#1 jacobjerondin

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 09:18 PM


Background, not super important for my main questions

 

I have some experience with Gaia's holy basil extract, which was absolutely magical for my issues with stress (often brought on by hypoglycemia in the morning where I can't eat much due to high cortisol but feel like my blood sugar is low). It seems much more noticeable in a very brief period than Ashwagandha (which I've never really felt much from)) even though I took the latter much more regularly.

I've been really struggling with the morning cortisol bump lately and have been feeling kinda overwhelmed, anxious, and generally stressed during the day but most of all a few hours after I wake up. I'd love to get more holy basil since it always seems to melt away my stress better than CBD or anything else I've tried, but I'm worried about the potential for HPTA axis shutdown and/or antiandrogenic effect of ursolic acid, a key component of Holy Basil.

 

The appeal to nature fallacy is crucial to keep in mind here - just because something is natural doesn't make it safe and I always do my best to scrutinize anything I put in my body carefully. One of the areas that I care about most is my male hormones, most of all androgenic ones like DHT. I already feel like I'm a little worse than average in that department and really don't want to lower them at all further. I'm also very wary of anything that could mess with the HPTA axis long term as I believe that my axis is kinda messed up from my bad eating habits, a lot of stress, and other unwise life decisions I made in the past year.

 

Start here to get to my main concerns about holy basil

 

The thing I'm most worried about is long-term HPTA shutdown is based on what I read here at anabolic men, which is a great resource that I'm come to generally trust. The author refers to a study on rabbits that were fed 2g of holy basil per day. Their testosterone levels went off the charts, but this was accompanied by a significant reduction in FSH and LH, which seems comparable to a steroid cycle. Admittedly I believe that that would be a high dose in the human equivalent dose, but still, it seems pretty risky given that I'm considering taking a very strong extract like Gaia's, which has a much stronger concentration of the active ingredients in holy basil than the raw leaf dose. There's a little more information about that same study here at ergo-log, another solid and generally reliable website.

 

My other concern is based on this study - pdf link, which found that DHT and testosterone were reduced in rats dosed with 5mg/kg body weight for a month. These rats were induced to have benign prostate hypertrophy (BPH), so in their case it might have been best to reduce these hormones. However, I've read that ursolic acid is a potent anti-androgen. I can't find too much information beyond that study to back up that claim. but I did find a study - pdf here that found that testosterone was reduced by 38% in rats given a holy basil extract.

 

Lots of information I know. Just trying to do a sort of cost-benefits analysis here. I know that holy basil helps my energy and stress levels a decent bit but if it's going to lower my testosterone and/or DHT levels significantly, it's def not worth it. More importantly, I def can't afford anymore HPTA axis issues than what I already have.


Edited by jacobjerondin, 13 March 2019 - 09:19 PM.


#2 Phoebus

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 11:28 PM

 

 

Ursolic acid-like compounds (11-ketoursolic acid and 3-acetyl,11-ketoursolic acid) have been implicated in inhibiting the 11β-Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase type 1 enzyme (11βHSD1), which converts cortisone to active cortisol, with IC50 values of 2.06 and 1.35uM respectively.[54] Corosolic Acid was more effective than other compounds tested at 0.81uM, and Ursolic acid itself had an IC50 of 1.9uM.[54] At least at the concentrations tested, none of the above pentacyclic triterpenoids inhibited the 11βHSD2 enzyme, which catalyzes the conversion of cortisone to cortisol.
Ursolic acid appears to have weak activity as an aromatase inhibitor, although this may be irrelevant due to the potency and the bioavailability of ursolic acid.[55][56] Derivatives of ursolic acid appear to be fairly useless in inhibiting the aromatase enzyme.[56] The IC50 of ursolic acid was 32uM, thrice less potent than Apigenin (10uM).[56]

 

https://examine.com/...s/ursolic-acid/



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#3 Phoebus

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 11:31 PM

 

 

Apigenin has been noted to modify a receptor (TBXA2) and an enzyme's activity (aromatase) in a manner which would be conducive to increasing testosterone activity, both at relatively low concentrations. It is uncertain what oral dose this translates to at this moment in time
In isolated human H295R adrenal cells, 12.5μM of Apigenin decreased cortisol to 47.5% of control (being outperformed by both soy isoflavones) with significant efficacy at 6μg/mL and greater.[25]

https://examine.com/...ments/apigenin/



#4 jacobjerondin

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 01:28 AM

Thanks for the studies man, I decided after thinking about it a good bit that the powerful cortisol lowering effects are worth the potential negative effects on male hormones. I'm gonna stack it with some good herbs like Cistanche, butea superba, tongkat ali stuff like that to balance out any testosterone and dht lowering effects from the holy basil.



#5 pamojja

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 11:10 AM

Also my anecdotal experience in taking Tulsi extract for 5 years (confounded by many medical conditions and a whole boatload of other supplements taken): totoal testosterone increased meanwhile from it's lowest of 187 to 681 now. FSH and LH always having been within normal doubled till now. However, my cortisol only since last came back lower, and needs to be confirmed by further testing.


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#6 jacobjerondin

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Posted Yesterday, 01:40 AM

Also my anecdotal experience in taking Tulsi extract for 5 years (confounded by many medical conditions and a whole boatload of other supplements taken): totoal testosterone increased meanwhile from it's lowest of 187 to 681 now. FSH and LH always having been within normal doubled till now. However, my cortisol only since last came back lower, and needs to be confirmed by further testing.

 

Wow that's an absolutely massive increase in testosterone, FSH, and LH, congrats on that!!! What other supplements/biohacking procedures/devices do you think contributed to those increases, if anything? I'm also definitely curious about what you did to lower cortisol if you have any ideas off the beaten path for that.


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#7 GABAergic

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Posted Yesterday, 01:58 AM

Also my anecdotal experience in taking Tulsi extract for 5 years (confounded by many medical conditions and a whole boatload of other supplements taken): totoal testosterone increased meanwhile from it's lowest of 187 to 681 now. FSH and LH always having been within normal doubled till now. However, my cortisol only since last came back lower, and needs to be confirmed by further testing.

 

681 is massive. you must be feeling like hulk. mind me asking your age? im pretty sure you were taking something potent to boost it that far, and im sure its not the tulsi


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#8 pamojja

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Posted Yesterday, 12:11 PM

Wow that's an absolutely massive increase in testosterone, FSH, and LH, congrats on that!!! What other supplements/biohacking procedures/devices do you think contributed to those increases, if anything? I'm also definitely curious about what you did to lower cortisol if you have any ideas off the beaten path for that.

 

First want to mention the background: A 60% walking disability from PAD more than 10 years ago - at worse could walk 300-400 meter at a stretch only (due to a 80% stenosis at my abdominal aorta bifurcation). That particular disability revoked 4 years ago again, but given a 50% disability for remaining CFS-like symptoms (PEM) instead. A chronic bronchitis during the whole year of 2012 (earning me a COPD diagnosis), finally remedied by going to a South-Indian beach for many months (4 hours whole body sun radiation daily, swimming long stretches in the ocean, added traditional Ayurvedic preparations). Repeated during each winter in 6-weeks vacations since then. T2D. Many subclinical issues: Magnesium, androgen, thyroid,.. deficiencies. Fatty liver, CKD I, inflammation and infections.

 

Therefore changed diet, employers, started very comprehensive supplementation with escalating doses already 10 years ago. All the details here: PAD and additional remissions.., (with a link to a spreadsheet with very detailed intakes over years)

 

681 is massive. you must be feeling like hulk. mind me asking your age? im pretty sure you were taking something potent to boost it that far, and im sure its not the tulsi

 

51. Is hulk feeling mellow? You're right, it can't be the tulsi alone, considering the multitude of synergies: of a number non-reversible chronic diseases, those improving again, while working to get my over-driven sympathetic autonomous system to relax, and also many handfuls of supplements each day. While meditating can't be that proximate a factor, did that already long before and excessively, before my health-odyssey started. Though that made it easier to understand right from the beginning: All things are co-dependently originated, therefore always cease by the ceasing of co-factors.


Edited by pamojja, Yesterday, 12:54 PM.


#9 pamojja

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Posted Yesterday, 01:49 PM

In this post I looked at the association of only 1 co-factor: 25(OH)D3 serum levels (again itself with a number of co-factors..) with total testosterone over time: https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=840559



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#10 GABAergic

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Posted Today, 05:45 AM

wow 51 and so much testo. im 34 and im not even close to you. but i read that kratom lowers your testo over time and i did too much kratom past two weeks so it could be related.

anyway, i brought some holy basil today on sale and it says 2 caps a day, i took 5 and it didint do anything to get me relaxed from the adderall that i overdid. i suppose like any herbal stuff it takes a week or so to work. but i really need something to help me relax right away when im stressed out and going nuts. its just not good for such times.







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