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Persistent Executive Function/Mood Issues

mood attention deficit executive function

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#1 whiteelephant

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 08:21 PM


I just wanted to create a new thred given that I'm further along in trying things out, but still left with significant issues.  I have a wonderful mix of ADD (specifically executive function)/anxiety/depression issues.  I was most recently on intuniv+pristiq.  I added in Strattera, titrating up to 40 mg, and found that my HR elevated above 100 Bpm.  I went off intuniv and Pristiq to streamline medicines and to see if I could leverage Strattera more.  Of note, I am a poor CYP2D6 metabolizer.  

 

 

I struggle with planning and focusing when things are open-ended, i.e. lack direction.  It's hard to work out because I get so exhausted with task switching and how unpredictable my work is due to poor planning.  

 

Medications aren't deemed helpful for EF, but I have seen sporadic accounts on memantine, strattera, clonidine and Provigil playing a role.  Some research suggests aniracetam and galantamine are helpful for learning disorders.  

 

Along with the EF issues, I get discouraged/frustrated.  My mood varies with my deadlines/interactions with positive people.  Unfortunately, I am not as directed as I want to be most of the time, I am so caught on near term focus.  I do find I am fatigued and don't know if I should attribute that to the exhaustion of getting things done.

 

What are the thoughts on additional things that might be successful for EF?  How can I better assess ways to address my mood/fatigue issues?



#2 Oinen

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 03:02 PM

Have you considered the possibility of heavy metal poisoning? I am surprised how overlooked it is, despite the fact that it causes a lot of neurological issues. If your mother had dental amalgams while you were in utero, mercury was passed onto you

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17851449

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3245741/

https://onlinelibrar...1111/cdoe.12208

Not to mention all the other sources of mercury these days, such as if you got amalgam fillings or ate a lot of sushi or fish with high amounts of it. Even tap water often has more heavy metals than is safe.

Emeramide is basically the only thing on the horizon that could fix the rampant heavy metal inundation we are all faced with. Lead in teas, food, vegetables, cadmium in cigarettes, metals in coffee...


Edited by Oinen, 31 March 2019 - 03:04 PM.


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#3 whiteelephant

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 01:56 AM

Wanted to see if anyone had additional suggestions as my attempts to address things have been unsuccessful. 

 

I've been trying to deal with a mix of ADHD/anxiety/mood issues for 12 years with therapy, exercise, diet, medications.  Without that much success.  Off medications, I can't manage a balanced life.  I get distracted and can't transition.

 

Call my issues whatever you will--LD, atypical autism--I've only officially been diagnosed with ADD/anxiety and mood issues 14 years ago (now 33).  My PIQ largely differs from my VIQ, VIQ being much greater.  In life, I have trouble planning/organizing my thoughts and have to resort to messy mind dumps and impulsive blurts.  I don't have issues with concentration, it's more organizing/planning my thoughts in a less raw manner, task switching (it takes forever just to deliberately refresh on a topic).  

 

Despite all my efforts, this has really impeded my ability to live a fuller life.  I've worked so hard to have professional success and life balance, and yet my attention is variable and inefficient.  And there's a diminishing return.  I was underemployed for so many years with accruing school debt because of this inability to focus.  I can't keep to learning skills in therapy week to week because I'm always dealing with the same issues.  I'm pretty hopeless that anything can improve this.  

 

I had thought intuniv was helpful, but at $50 a month it didn't provide much benefit.  And I was hypertensive.  I'm on single agent Strattera at 40 mg as I can't tolerate more due to a near tachycardia.  Memantine on its own made me anxious.  

 

Don't know what to add for anxiety.  For attention, don't know if anything other than memantine is worth trying at this point.  



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#4 jack black

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 08:29 PM

Wanted to see if anyone had additional suggestions as my attempts to address things have been unsuccessful. 

 

I've been trying to deal with a mix of ADHD/anxiety/mood issues for 12 years with therapy, exercise, diet, medications.  Without that much success.  Off medications, I can't manage a balanced life.  I get distracted and can't transition.

 

Call my issues whatever you will--LD, atypical autism--I've only officially been diagnosed with ADD/anxiety and mood issues 14 years ago (now 33).  My PIQ largely differs from my VIQ, VIQ being much greater.  In life, I have trouble planning/organizing my thoughts and have to resort to messy mind dumps and impulsive blurts.  I don't have issues with concentration, it's more organizing/planning my thoughts in a less raw manner, task switching (it takes forever just to deliberately refresh on a topic).  

 

Despite all my efforts, this has really impeded my ability to live a fuller life.  I've worked so hard to have professional success and life balance, and yet my attention is variable and inefficient.  And there's a diminishing return.  I was underemployed for so many years with accruing school debt because of this inability to focus.  I can't keep to learning skills in therapy week to week because I'm always dealing with the same issues.  I'm pretty hopeless that anything can improve this.  

 

I had thought intuniv was helpful, but at $50 a month it didn't provide much benefit.  And I was hypertensive.  I'm on single agent Strattera at 40 mg as I can't tolerate more due to a near tachycardia.  Memantine on its own made me anxious.  

 

Don't know what to add for anxiety.  For attention, don't know if anything other than memantine is worth trying at this point.  

 

i might have similar issues, at least at a first glance. the best thing that works for me for anxiety is the lowly propranolol 40mg. i take it 2-3 hrs before public speaking or a stressful meeting.  there are some other things that work for anxiety too, but at the expense of even less motivation, ie: SSRI, SNRI, etc.

 

the best thing that works for my ADD is amphetamine. methylphenidate is not even close and it gives me basically a headache. i cannot regularly take either, because i don't have a script now. i take DMAE on each weekday, but it's a weak med for ADD.

 

do this: go to the Dr Daniel Amen's website and do his brain eval questionnaire and report back to see if my brain type # is similar to yours.



#5 whiteelephant

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 10:18 PM

It's not just a motivation issue, it's being able to direct my attention to important details even when they're not in sight.  I am so pulled into immediacy/concrete details.   I can't plan what I want to say before I say things.  I have to have mind dumps.  I can't envision goals that feel worthwhile enough in the abstract.  They're all hazy.  What this looks like in actual life is problems with planning time I spend with friends/relationships, processing things succinctly and issues with organizing more open-ended work.  On papers, if someone tells me what to write, I do fine.  Give me something open-ended and I get lost in figuring out what's important/connected.  Can't keep both details and big picture in mind.  Not necessarily a short term attention issue, just more a struggle envisioning the abstract when it's not right in front of me. I've succeeded with things being more rote.  In a relationship, I can't structure things well enough, I just plan around activities.  Makes me question whether I can/will ever have kids.

 

I identify with Amen's overobsessive and temporal lobe types, but don't feel that fully describes me.  

 

My psychopharmacologist basically said: 

"Was talking to a seasoned neuropsychologist/educator recently about your functioning pattern and they were interested in how you are applying your creative mind - because I sense a deep
disappointment in your ability to express product from it in you - they were saying
it may be ok, if you let it be,
 1) to need structure for your day job
2) to not expect or try to use the creative aspects of your intelligence at your day job, or even on other people, if it is draining ?
3) to give yourself permission to be the one prompted, not the prompter (using a free-writing vs. expository to a prompt writing metaphor)
In  your creative pursuits."

 

Which seems to mean accepting a more mediocre, limited life.  I've tried so hard and advanced in life sporadically.  Maybe I just accept that I have an irreparable learning deficiency limiting my potential?  Other people with the same amount of effort/work get further.  



#6 MichaelFocus22

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 07:30 PM

It's not just a motivation issue, it's being able to direct my attention to important details even when they're not in sight.  I am so pulled into immediacy/concrete details.   I can't plan what I want to say before I say things.  I have to have mind dumps.  I can't envision goals that feel worthwhile enough in the abstract.  They're all hazy.  What this looks like in actual life is problems with planning time I spend with friends/relationships, processing things succinctly and issues with organizing more open-ended work.  On papers, if someone tells me what to write, I do fine.  Give me something open-ended and I get lost in figuring out what's important/connected.  Can't keep both details and big picture in mind.  Not necessarily a short term attention issue, just more a struggle envisioning the abstract when it's not right in front of me. I've succeeded with things being more rote.  In a relationship, I can't structure things well enough, I just plan around activities.  Makes me question whether I can/will ever have kids.

 

I identify with Amen's overobsessive and temporal lobe types, but don't feel that fully describes me.  

 

My psychopharmacologist basically said: 

"Was talking to a seasoned neuropsychologist/educator recently about your functioning pattern and they were interested in how you are applying your creative mind - because I sense a deep
disappointment in your ability to express product from it in you - they were saying
it may be ok, if you let it be,
 1) to need structure for your day job
2) to not expect or try to use the creative aspects of your intelligence at your day job, or even on other people, if it is draining ?
3) to give yourself permission to be the one prompted, not the prompter (using a free-writing vs. expository to a prompt writing metaphor)
In  your creative pursuits."

 

Which seems to mean accepting a more mediocre, limited life.  I've tried so hard and advanced in life sporadically.  Maybe I just accept that I have an irreparable learning deficiency limiting my potential?  Other people with the same amount of effort/work get further.  

 

  1. Ok, first things first, you need to quit letting using your disorder as an excuse it's not an excuse. Yes, I know you've heard this many of times and I like you have been in plenty of messed up situations despite wanting to be successful. What needs to come first, is that you don't let your disorder limit you. Fuck that shit, Man up and take ownership for yourself.  If you limit your potential then your basically letting the disorder WIN. I will never let it win, everyday is a fight between me and IT. I will WIN not everytime and not everyday will be a success an that's perfectly ok. LIfe is a process and accept the trial and error process. Somedays I'm amazing with my productivity and other days I'm not. One day I will break shit in rage and other days I have to force myself to workout to get what I want done. What you need to accept is the process of IMPROVING yourself. Next, quit overanalyzing all these different complexities of ADD, simplify, simplify, simplify. Also I've investigated into the work of Amen and he seems  more like a salesman out to make alot of money than actually caring about your own well being. Do your own research and READ the actual studies. Hundreds of ADD studies happen every single day, study ,study study.   There are so many things you can do. Your not hopeless, their is always HOPE, if you believe there is than there is.  

 

2. Addictions?: What types of addictions do you have? Are you spending hundreds of hours on video games? Are you chronically masterbating to hardcore pornographic materials? Are you eating right? Are you working out? Are you using pomodoro times? Do you have therapy? Addictions and medication is what is pushing me to succeed to my potential. Addictions are merely forms of self-medication and typically will lower yourself esteem. Find what it is, is ruining your MOOD and drop it cold turkey. Medication for me allows me to have LESS addictive behaviors rather than having more of them.  Next, don't take some many meds. Less is more, medication is only a tool for yourself, you don't need to constantly lobotomize yourself my friend. You are not defective, your just different.  

 

3.  LEARN SOMETHING: I feel fucking amazing when I can dance all day. It's the only thing that actually uses my ADD. When I can demonstrate my competence I feel confident and I feel amazing. Learn one hobby and STICK with it for life. This is only possible with medication unfortunately.  I only achieved my amazing body when I could stop being consistently inconsistent.  Just do anything, it doesn't matter...

 

4. Look at this thread, you can watch me FAIL HORRIBLY, I lost like 10 thousand dollars and I'm high functioning, it's ok to make mistakes. No one is perfect. I'm not perfect.  https://www.longecit...ons-on-adhd-pi/   

 

5. Who do you spend your time with? Do you have someone that makes you feel amazing?  Are you hanging out with loosers who have no goals nothing going on in there lives? People with ADD have a tendency to gravitate to these people because we have DEPENDENCE of environment. Which means without proper treatment you will BE DEPENDENT upon your external environment. You need to STOP this immediately or people may exploit your low self-worth. 

 

6. Fuck neurotypicals: Just fuck em dude, I honestly did my best to be like them, it simply doesn't work. I did everything I could POSSIBLY do and AM STILL Doing in hopes of mimmicking them but their is simply a gap we can never cross unfortunately. Sure, ADD sucks balls. At the same time, you have AMAZING vision and you have amazing IDEAS, Now with medication if you can ACT upon those ideas.. You will be very well off. Many wealthy people have SOMETHING wrong with them. Your UNIQUE, use your broken filter and information to your advantage.

  

7.  Find social support: Find someone to talk to whether a girlfriend or someone just find someone that understands you. This keeps me going even though I'm probably fucked. I don't give a fuck I will keep plugging away until I'm dead.  Being alone is no good for you. I don't know about you but I'm my WORST if I don't have some people to talk to. 

 

8. Find a good career: This is basically my problem right now, but most of my problems I could easily fix with a consistent stream of income. I promise you if you have a consistent stream of income everything else will remedy itself. If it hasn't then your doing something wrong. 

 

                                           Conclusion: Stop being a victim and take some responsibility. I wasted my day yesterday on accident(ADD) Reasons and I still got shit don't. Don't make any fucking excuses, I make them all the time to this day.  Above all, your goal is very simply, you should not accept your limits like a VICTIM but instead DOMINATE your GOALS  WITH ADHD and prove to those piece of shit privilege neurotypicals that I can do any motherfucking thing you can do. I toke 20+ units this semester and will be averaging a 3.54 abeit lower than i wanted and I consider it a failure BUT this was OFF Meds and I was in 2 clubs and doing all sorts of crazy shit. PUSH THE LIMITS, we ADHD people THRIVE under incredibly pressure. Push yourself harder than you ever thought possible. When your finally successful and your neurotypical bro asks you how you did, you will say through my sheer GRIT and fucking determination.  Yesterday, I went to a tech dude who spouted his bullshit neuroprivilege to me on the proper way to put in a "chip card" and then I forgot my bag on the table and he reminded me of my bad memory. This morning I left the sink on again. 4 months ago I had 800 dollars in tickets. You know what? It doesn't fucking matters, I will find a way to get what I want. It doesn't matter but your mental state of mind is what does matter.   You want to know the best revenge is to succeed AGAINST ALL ODDS, this is what you need to do. Push yourself and FIND what works for you. Your playing the GAME on HARD MODE because GOD thought you could fucking handle it and he gave the stupid sheep EASY MODE because they were to weak. ADHD is  very hard mode and when you cut yourself you lose 1000 lifepoints. This is your challenge, to overcome DESPITE your circumstance... If you FAIL, then THEN FAIL like a man. FAIL like a fucking beast and get the fuck up and do it again. I'm going to fail this summer and I will fail many many more times.. Many sheep are toO AFRAID TO FAIL but you and I have failed MORE TIMES than we can remember. You are valuable, you will achieve if you believe that you can, you will overcome. You are not defective, you are powerful. You want to know my goal? I want to get in stanford and date the hottest salsa dancing girl then fuck her black and white and then I will salsa dance until I collapse.. If I FAIL, Then at least I had the BALLS to dream. The desire to face risk. The Desire to man up. Then I will DO IT again and DREAM like a delusional MAN that I am. The great ones believe they are great , they believe their life was MORE than their own medcority. They believe when no one else did believe in them. No one believes in me but me. Remember for every ADHD loser their is another one who found a way to be successful. It's not impossible BECAUSE it's be done before, that MEANS you can fucking do it too. I hope this helps. Goodluck.


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#7 jack black

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 07:52 PM

 

I identify with Amen's overobsessive and temporal lobe types, but don't feel that fully describes me.  

 

 

did you mean over-focused and not overobsessive?

 

this is what i got from one of the Amen's free questionnaires:

 

 

Jack,

Your Test Results are in!

Based on your answers, you may have a combination of more than one type of ADD, including:

    Overfocused ADD

    Temporal Lobe ADD

    Ring of Fire ADD

    Anxious ADD

http://addfull.amenclinics.com/

 

his description of those types do match my mix of symptoms. BTW, that was back in 2016. now, he gives brain type # and much better descriptions, beyond ADHD: https://brainhealtha....com/assessment


Edited by jack black, 13 May 2019 - 08:19 PM.


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#8 jroseland

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 10:28 AM

For upgrading executive function look into Dual N-Back brain training. This has a consistent and rapid positive effect on executive function.

 

Lots of clinical trials out there on DNB and exec function

 

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