12 replies to this topic

[sedentary]

hi. im looking for alternatives to metformin because its hard to buy it in the US and i came down to only two, berberine and resveratrol. berberine doesnt seem to do anything , so last choice is resveratrol. im looking for personal experiences, statements, of how it affects blood sugar and is it reliable enough??

[maxwatt]

You can probably get genuine metformin from an internet pharmacy like alldaychemist dot com or dropshipmd.  They may ask you to upload a prescription, but you could upload the Chinese birth certificate of a dead cow, and they'll still ship it to you.  Berberine lowers blood sugar, similarly to metformin, but it also blocks the kidneys ability to recycle glucose, so it is instead passed in the urine.  Similar in effect to Pioglitazone.  But Pioglitazone increases the risk of bladder cancer, heart failure and eye problems and so has been banned in Europe.  I note that berberine has been used in Chinese medicine for centuries, but the herbalists do not recommend it for chronic use.  Only temporarily for an acute condition.  

 

In my experience, resveratrol and metformin did not lower blood sugar that I could tell, and my levels were gradually increasing over the years.    I think their effect is on insulin release and pancreatic health.  They do not seem to increase insulin sensitivity or lower insulin levels.  At least for me.  Others may have different metabolic conditions.

 

What I found effectively lowers blood sugar levels is certain glycoproteins found in some (but not all) mushrooms.  The most effective mushroom species I've personally found for this is maitake (Grifola frondosa).  There are papers in pubmed on the improvement in insulin sensitivity by the SX fraction extracted from this mushroom.  It has reduced blood glucose in rats and humans, including me.  I've not personally tested other maitake products (such as the D fraction, 4:1 ratio extract or powdered dry mushroom)  and haven't found any studies on them for blood glucose in the literature.  In my experience fresh maitake works well.  Sauteed in a red wind reduction with meat or vegetable of your choice.....  But short of growing the mushroom in bags of wood chips in my kitchen, fresh maitake is only seasonally available.  The SX fraction is available as a supplement. It works for me, but I need a greater quantity than the label recommends.  Titrate yuor dose,

 

Fortunately the common button mushroom, Agaricus bisporus, also reduces blood sugar, though more may be required than for maitake.  I'm still trying to quantify this.  Both white and brown (cremini) mushrooms as well as portobello mushrooms are different forms of Agaricus bisporis.  Note:  one shouldn't eat these raw.  They contain a small quantity of a  hydrazine compound that is a known carcinogen which may have a cumulative effect.  The heat of cooking destroys this compound.

 

Porcini mushrooms (Boletus edulis) and other bolete mushrooms, though tasty, do not in my experience lower blood sugar levels.  Neither do other exotic edibles, such as various Lactarius species, blewits, Laetiporus et al.  But most people needn't care.

 

Good luck.

[Oakman]

Concerning Berberine, I think you should look at the research before dismissing it.

 

Meta-analysis supports berberine-silymarin combination for cardiometabolic health

 

 

08-Mar-2019

 By Stephen Daniells

Supplements formulated with berberine and silymarin may improve blood lipid levels and fasting blood sugar levels, says a meta-analysis of five randomized, double‐blind, placebo‐controlled clinical trials (RCTs).

HTTPS://WWW.NUTRAINGREDIENTS-USA.COM/ARTICLE/2019/03/08/META-ANALYSIS-SUPPORTS-BERBERINE-SILYMARIN-COMBINATION-FOR-CARDIOMETABOLIC-HEALTH 

Edited by Oakman, 21 November 2019 - 02:10 PM.

[sedentary]

interesting. i have read dozen of research on berberine's benefits and ive tried it long enough to know if it works or not and it doesnt for me. BUT here is whats interesting in your post. you mention silymarin. now, milk thistle has always lowered my blood sugar levels for one reason or another and im not surprised now studies are coming out on this. perhaps the combo might just potentiate silymarin just a bit more rather than berberine having much of an effect. i can attest by trying both separate, only silymarin worked for me.

 

btw revisiting some old studies, the doses of berberine was so high, i remember having yellow diarrhea going that far. definitely more reason i dont recommend it. 

[Oakman]

I take 500mg berberine+120mg silymarin twice a day with meals, 1 month on/1 month off. Seems to help with weight loss.

[sedentary]

of all the supplements you take, how can you be so sure its exactly those two? i mean, unless of course the only supplements you ever take are those two, its easy configuration.

[Oakman]

of all the supplements you take, how can you be so sure its exactly those two? i mean, unless of course the only supplements you ever take are those two, its easy configuration.

 

I take numerous others, so far from certain. However, these two are the only ones I'm currently cycling. When I add those two, and as I weigh & record my weight & HRV, weight trends downward a bit, likely because my appetite decreases. That helps as I eat only for breakfast & noon-ish, then typically no other real meal, only a light snack most PMs.

 

Fortunately both are reasonable, so best to just try the combo as YRMV. You can find them together in the ~correct proportions on Amazon like this here or make a DIY combo.

[sedentary]

hah! im not going to spend that much money on berberine. i already have milk thistle and when i combine it with lipoic acid, i think im going to faint as my blood sugar drops to minimum. the downside of all this is, i keep craving sweets and food in general. in my case, dropping my blood sugar too low actually makes me gain weight by craving juices sweets and other food materials. anyway, its still better combo, in my experience anyway, the thistle lipoic acid combo. as i mentioned before berberine either didnt work, or caused stomach upset and yellow diarrhea. and its too expensive! seriously, it is expensive. not worth it.

[Oakman]

.. as i mentioned before berberine either didnt work, or caused stomach upset and yellow diarrhea. and its too expensive! seriously, it is expensive. not worth it.

 

Not sure what you consider expensive, this one here on subscribe and save is $ .10/cap, so $ .20/day isn't that bad, is it?

[kingjoefromflorida]

Metformin is very easy to buy in the u.s....

Agelessrx is what i use.real drs no bs...

[health_nutty]

I'm 45, pretty active, have low BMI, but my blood sugar was creeping up from 80's to 90's and then over 100 (fasting in the morning).  I tried berbine 1500mg, milk thistle, and even 1g of resveratrol a day.  nothing budged (this is also after eliminating all sugars and simple carbs).  I reduced my carbs further to 40% of calories and it got worse.  Then I read all i could and saw that saturated fat is also implicated in insulin resistance.  I cut my meat intake in about half and replaced with complex carbs and my fasting blood sugar is back down in to the low 90's. 

[syr_]

Resveratrol and milk thistle didn't do anything for me. I cannot take berberine because it's one of the most bitter powders on the planet (together with TUDCA), and I dont swallow.

Some polyphenols and/or linseed oil from a cholesterol supp I take have had a very mild effect after 3 months. Not doing further research because my fasting levels are under 100 anyway.

But... I'm going to start soon Fisetin and Icariin, which may have some effect on the hormonal pathways and I plan to redo blood work 3/4 months after that.

[SnowMetal]

There is at least one study showing that Metformin inhibits mitochondrial respiration during exercise. Perhaps this has been discussed here; I'm not a regular visitor lately. Nonetheless, I personally take an extract of gymnema sylvestre as an alternative to Metformin. It's an herb from India known as gurmar or "sugar destroyer", and it's dirt cheap. It's far more effective than Metformin for controlling glucose and enhancing insulin sensitivity. I take insulin for T1 diabetes, and I have been able to go more than two weeks without exogenous insulin, without elevated blood glucose levels. This is unheard of in most western medical circles.