Edited by osris, 04 November 2019 - 09:24 AM.
Bioavailability of fisetin in mouse and human studies question
#1
Posted 04 November 2019 - 09:23 AM
#2
Posted 06 November 2019 - 09:08 AM
- "For diet studies, mice were fed Teklad 2020 chow (Envigo, Madison, WI) prepared with or without 500 ppm (500 mg/kg) of fisetin"
- "For oral administration of fisetin, mice were dosed with 100 mg/kg of fisetin in 60% Phosal 50 PG:30% PEG400:10% ethanol or vehicle only by gavage."
- 60% Phosal 50 PG
- 30% PEG400
- 10% ethanol
#3
Posted 06 November 2019 - 12:56 PM
Thanks. That gives me something to work on.
Is it possible to buy Teklad chow? Maybe humans could take it with fisetin. I know that sounds silly, but could it work?
#4
Posted 06 November 2019 - 02:54 PM
Maybe the special chow works in humans as well. It was prepared with 500 ppm (500 mg/kg) of fisetin by Envigo. Co. (Tampa, FL). You could contact them. They have a special team for the Teklad diet.
https://www.envigo.com/contact-envigo/
But I will go for the self made liposomal fisetin using the process mentioned. I'm ordering an ultrasound machine for that.
#5
Posted 06 November 2019 - 03:29 PM
Maybe the special chow works in humans as well. It was prepared with 500 ppm (500 mg/kg) of fisetin by Envigo. Co. (Tampa, FL). You could contact them. They have a special team for the Teklad diet.
https://www.envigo.com/contact-envigo/
But I will go for the self made liposomal fisetin using the process mentioned. I'm ordering an ultrasound machine for that.
I'm pretty good at making Vitamin C liposomes using this method, and I can tell you it is MUCH trickier to do this with substances that don't dissolve well in water. You'll need to up the alcohol content considerably.
One test to see how (un-)successful you are is to leave your liposomal mix in the fridge overnight and see how much fisetin settles out at the bottom. You're aiming for none.
Let us know how you get on.
Edited by QuestforLife, 06 November 2019 - 03:30 PM.
#6
Posted 06 November 2019 - 05:58 PM
Making fisetin bioavailable in these ways seems a bit of a hassle to me. Is there a quicker way?
#7
Posted 06 November 2019 - 08:08 PM
To determine how to take fisetin, the researchers running the human clinical trials could be asked, or one can wait for the results (and methods) of those trials to be published.
https://clinicaltria...ts?term=fisetin
#8
Posted 07 November 2019 - 09:53 AM
Making fisetin bioavailable in these ways seems a bit of a hassle to me. Is there a quicker way?
Same as with other poorly bioavailable flavonoids like resveratrol - dissolve in oil (or alcohol) and most of all - take large quantities. Of course this increases the chances of unintended side effects.
#9
Posted 07 November 2019 - 03:13 PM
Thanks, but is the dissolving essential? Can't you just take it along with a spoonful of olive oil or a fish oil capsule? It all ends up in the stomach at the same time anyway, and is digested together.
#10
Posted 08 November 2019 - 10:22 AM
I'm pretty good at making Vitamin C liposomes using this method, and I can tell you it is MUCH trickier to do this with substances that don't dissolve well in water. You'll need to up the alcohol content considerably.
One test to see how (un-)successful you are is to leave your liposomal mix in the fridge overnight and see how much fisetin settles out at the bottom. You're aiming for none.
Let us know how you get on.
Thanks for the advice.
I will report back about my liposomal creation success.
#11
Posted 06 December 2019 - 08:17 PM
anyone aware of a source for
- Phosal 50 PG
- other than the lab houses that do not take "regular" folks orders? used in cosmetics but did not see any sellers
- worthwhile using to increase bioavailabilty I think. Thanks!
#12
Posted 01 January 2020 - 05:18 PM
In a Journal of Pharmacological Sciences, Jan 2018
https://www.scienced...347861317302116
Wen-bin He,Kazuho Abe & Tatsuhiro Akaishi report on the bio-availability of orally administered Fisetin.in mice using 10% Tween 80 (polysorbate 80) in saline to deliver fisetin. They showed strong evidence of fisetin entering the blood stream and passing the blood brain barrier in mice. This would seem an easier method of delivery than Teklad and the Phosal mix as polysorbate 80 is widely available, cheap and is an FDA approved food and cosmetics additive.
I have also thought about DMSO patches given fisetin's solubility in it. DMSO's FDA approval for skin conditions and it's ability to carry drugs through the skin. Perhaps a useful way for local application in problems like knee arthritis.
#13
Posted 02 January 2020 - 10:29 AM
From a practical standpoint, how would one utilize polysorbate 80 to improve bioavailability. Could you just take some polysorbate 80 with your fisitin capsules. It says in a saline solution. Does this mean putting the contents of your capsules in a mixture od polysorbate 80 and saline solution for oral consumption. Sorry, it this seems like a simple matter but for me, nothing is simple.
#14
Posted 10 January 2020 - 12:57 AM
I think that the fisetin is dissolved the polysorbate 80 and then that diluted 1 part polysorbate/fisetin solution to 9 parts saline. At least that's my reading of the original paper. What concentration of fisetin in polysorbate I couldn't see. My presumption would be about 25% fisetin.
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