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Mitochondrial dysfunction / energy metabolism

mitochondria metabolism atp dysfunction

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#31 longcity90

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Posted 07 January 2020 - 11:55 AM

Anyone help me to interpret this image?
 
I started the week (yesterday) trying a second attempt with the IBSA Thyroid (Italian Brand that produces the combination of the hormones T3 - T4).
 
1 complete grain has about 75mcg of T4 and 20 of T3 (4: 1 ratio).
 
The doctor told me to start with half a tablet.
 
I remember about 3-4 months ago that I started for two weeks but except for the first two days where I had a turn of positivity and energy ... the following days it seemed that my body got used to the dose.
 
 
Today is the second day and I must say that I have good general feelings.
 
It seems that T3 is involved in the electron transport chain ... also T2.
 
My question is:
 
Am I having a benefit because the thyroid is faster or because it acts in the transport chain by providing ATP? can it bypass the final ATP6 complex in the case of mutation? I hope I explained myself.
 
Rigardo the B1 pointed out to me that it increases the thyroid hormones as well as working on the first complex ... so ... it could in turn have acted in the mitochondria.
 
I am a little confused!
 

Edited by longcity90, 07 January 2020 - 11:57 AM.


#32 longcity90

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 04:51 PM

Can anyone help me understand what stimulates the first mitochondrial complex? 



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#33 mitomutant

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 05:55 PM

Can anyone help me understand what stimulates the first mitochondrial complex? 

 

I must insist that you get a diagnosis first. Depending your diagnosis, stimulating complex I can make things worse (increase ROS).

 

In my case (mitochondrial myopathy due to single large-scale mtDNA deletion), the reverse is the solution: mild inhibition of the complex I enhances energy production by reducing ROS and increasing mitochondrial biogenesis.

 

Take care.


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#34 longcity90

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 10:04 AM

I must insist that you get a diagnosis first. Depending your diagnosis, stimulating complex I can make things worse (increase ROS).

 

In my case (mitochondrial myopathy due to single large-scale mtDNA deletion), the reverse is the solution: mild inhibition of the complex I enhances energy production by reducing ROS and increasing mitochondrial biogenesis.

 

Take care.

 

I really appreciate your idea of ​​thought but as I said in private ... in Italy I don't have support and we are considering going to the UK to take tests ... or in any case in Europe.
 
It becomes difficult for me to do small things daily ... so if I can get a benefit from individual vitamins ... why not try? I am monitoring everything ... I write every day the reactions, sensations ... without being caught by the placebo effect.
 
Regarding your case, if I can afford it ... I don't think it's a good method to limit the damage of ROS by inhibiting the first complex ... as there are antioxidants such as vitamin E that can keep them monitored ... inhibiting (partially) the complex 1 bypasses the problem anyway ... at this point is it worth doing a ketogenic to exploit fats? the first complex is highly dependent on carbohydrates ... if it is not even partially resolved you will have great difficulty oxidizing them ... as long as you do not also have mutations in acetyl coenzyme A and pyruvate dehydrogenase.
 
Obviously it's just my humble hypothesis :)


#35 mitomutant

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 10:39 AM

 

I really appreciate your idea of ​​thought but as I said in private ... in Italy I don't have support and we are considering going to the UK to take tests ... or in any case in Europe.
 
It becomes difficult for me to do small things daily ... so if I can get a benefit from individual vitamins ... why not try? I am monitoring everything ... I write every day the reactions, sensations ... without being caught by the placebo effect.
 
Regarding your case, if I can afford it ... I don't think it's a good method to limit the damage of ROS by inhibiting the first complex ... as there are antioxidants such as vitamin E that can keep them monitored ... inhibiting (partially) the complex 1 bypasses the problem anyway ... at this point is it worth doing a ketogenic to exploit fats? the first complex is highly dependent on carbohydrates ... if it is not even partially resolved you will have great difficulty oxidizing them ... as long as you do not also have mutations in acetyl coenzyme A and pyruvate dehydrogenase.
 
Obviously it's just my humble hypothesis :)

 

 

Did you try to concat user "Asor" ? He is Italian and, from I have talked to him in private messages, he has been able to get properly diagnosed and his doctor is very knowledgeable about his mito dysfunction.

 

About Keto, I have had great results with it. I cycle it like 8 weeks on, 4 weeks off. When doing it, try to get some plain l-carnitine (I take 500mg/tid/day). Also, I take some MCT (1 tablespoon) upon waking up and at bedtime. It seems to work for me.

Also, take some form of CoQ10. I use Jarrow's Q-absorb, 100mg/day at bedtime. It takes 3-4 weeks to kick in, but the effect is clearly noticeable.

In the antiox side of things, the only one that seems to have some effect is "reduced gluthatione". Make sure you take the "setria" brand. I use the "healthy origins" product. 250mg/day at bedtime

Finally, 500mg curcumin at bedtime seems also to work for me. Less aches and better recovery from workouts. It also takes some weeks to kick-in.

 

Finally, try to contact https://www.mitoswab.com/. I haven't personally used them (did not exist when I was diagnosed), but they offer a non-invasive test for mitochondrial disease that promise a high correlation with the results you would get with a muscle biopsy. They should be able to send you a test kit to your home in Italy.

 

 

Hope this helps. Take care my friend.


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#36 longcity90

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 10:06 AM

Ciao longcity90,

 

Ho una malattia mitocondriale primaria. La diagnosi ha richiesto 2 anni e ora dovresti seguire questa strada. L'Italia ha un ottimo sistema di sicurezza sociale, ma è necessario trovare lo specialista giusto. Sono residente in Spagna e ho usato un mix di medici privati ​​/ pubblici per ottenere una diagnosi definitiva. Richiede una biopsia muscolare, quindi una serie di test per ottenere un risultato. Ma per favore smetti di provare a capirlo da solo.

 

Inoltre, prova a contattare l'utente "Asor" qui in questo forum. È anche affetto da una malattia mitocondriale ed è italiano. Sono sicuro che sarà in grado di darti buoni consigli su dove andare per ottenere una diagnosi.

 

Una cosa che posso dirti con certezza se * non * hai MELAS. Il segno distintivo di questa malattia è un episodio simile all'ictus, in cui perdi conoscenza e finisci in ospedale per alcuni giorni.

 

Stai attento,

Luis

 

Last access Asor is Apri 2018 :( but thanks for the tips...


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#37 longcity90

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 08:57 AM

My feeling but also the evidence I have every day about myself is that B3 (and its derivatives) despite being fundamental to the first complex ... it accumulates by creating only more serotonin but no longer creates NAD + :( the same thing with melatonin ...

 

It makes me think therefore that probably if there are defects in the transport chain and in the various complexes,

Manipulating mitochondrial dynamics cannot help...

Edited by longcity90, 16 January 2020 - 08:59 AM.


#38 longcity90

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 10:45 AM

The analyzes revealed a very low pyruvate kinase value so its activity in the liver is compromised as well as glycolysis itself ... there seems to be no therapy :( they recommended me to have blood transfusions to be done every month ... for chelating iron and creating new red blood cells ... it's frustrating because I can't produce ATP in any way.
 
Can I bypass this very serious genetic defect?


#39 mitomutant

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 11:04 AM

 

The analyzes revealed a very low pyruvate kinase value so its activity in the liver is compromised as well as glycolysis itself ... there seems to be no therapy :( they recommended me to have blood transfusions to be done every month ... for chelating iron and creating new red blood cells ... it's frustrating because I can't produce ATP in any way.
 
Can I bypass this very serious genetic defect?

 

 

That's the standard "treatment" for a very rare genetic defect called "Pyruvate kinase deficiency". They finally gave you this diagnosis ?

 

take care.


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#40 longcity90

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 12:36 PM

That's the standard "treatment" for a very rare genetic defect called "Pyruvate kinase deficiency". They finally gave you this diagnosis ?

 

take care.

 

Yes, I have this diagnosis. I can tell you that I remember having a period without the meat (iron) and I was fine ... I was not aware that I was not only limiting iron but also chelating iron through lactoferrin. (I consumed milk and yoghurt in abundance).
 
What do you mean by are you waiting? the strange thing is that the blood count does not reveal anemia ... it is in the normal laboratory range.
 
Yesterday I was very good eating only fat ... but I can't tolerate it for a long time ... I have to be able to fix the liver and facilitate glycolysis.


#41 mitomutant

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 01:04 PM

 

Yes, I have this diagnosis. I can tell you that I remember having a period without the meat (iron) and I was fine ... I was not aware that I was not only limiting iron but also chelating iron through lactoferrin. (I consumed milk and yoghurt in abundance).
 
What do you mean by are you waiting? the strange thing is that the blood count does not reveal anemia ... it is in the normal laboratory range.
 
Yesterday I was very good eating only fat ... but I can't tolerate it for a long time ... I have to be able to fix the liver and facilitate glycolysis.

 

 

I am glad you finally have a diagnosis you can work with.

 

No idea about this disease, but maybe your problem is that oxygen is not reaching the cells and the mitochondria cannot produce ATP because of this.

 

 

 

Hemolytic anemia is a condition that causes red blood cells to be destroyed and removed from the blood too early. Red blood cells are responsible for carrying oxygen throughout the body. When red blood cells are destroyed too early, oxygen is not delivered to the rest of the body efficiently. Many underlying conditions can cause hemolytic anemia, including some genetic diseases.

 

If that's the case, a blood transfusion will certainly help you. Maybe try at least once and see how you feel after the transfusion.

 

take care.



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#42 kurdishfella

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Posted 16 August 2021 - 09:11 PM

Having low metabolism caused by mineral/vitamin deficiency can be beneficial as viruses depend on you to replicate so correcting the deficiency can then make the virus go rampant. But then I guess organ damage could be caused by the deficiency which easier to attack lower virus count needed. 


Edited by kurdishfella, 16 August 2021 - 09:12 PM.





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