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Coronavirus vaccine - no guarantees

coronavirus vaccine

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#31 Dorian Grey

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Posted 09 December 2020 - 02:57 PM

Doh!  https://www.dailymai...g-tomorrow.html

 

Allergy risk on Pfizer jab: Day before FDA meet to give green light to vaccine UK regulators warn people with 'significant' food and medicine allergies NOT to take it after two health workers suffer ‘anaphylactic reaction’

 

And so it begins...  Wonder how many jabs were actually done before these popped up.  Onward & upward with day two.  

 

Two British healthcare workers who got the vaccine on Tuesday have had allergic reactions They are both now recovering well but British regulators are warning people with 'severe' food and medicine allergies not to get it yet as a precaution.

 

During its trial phase, 137 of the 20,000 who got the vaccine had allergic reactions But 111 people among the 20,000 who were given a placebo also had allergic reactions which made scientists dismiss it.

 

Must have been some placebo!  A saline allergy?  


Edited by Dorian Grey, 09 December 2020 - 03:01 PM.

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#32 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 09 December 2020 - 03:11 PM

Well, some allergic reaction symptoms are somewhat subjective.  Tightness in the chest, shortness of breathing, even hives can be elicited due to anxiety and stress.

 

You tell people that they may be getting some experimental drug in a test, and some of them are going to have symptoms associated with anxiety. It doesn't really surprise me that 111 people that got the placebo had "allergic" reactions.

 

 


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#33 Dorian Grey

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Posted 14 December 2020 - 06:55 AM

Anyone care to try a couple of different experimental vaccines at once?  

 

https://www.dailymai...chiefs-say.html

 

How people could get 'mix and match' Covid vaccines: UK scientists will trial giving people multiple types of jab to boost different parts of their immune systems

 

"Scientists on the country's Vaccine Taskforce yesterday said they would trial giving people a dose of one type of jab and then a booster with a different type. "

 

"Chief of the UK Vaccine Taskforce, Kate Bingham, said researchers in the UK would start trials of this method, known as 'heterologous prime-boost', next year."

 

"The thinking behind it is different vaccines provoke different parts of the immune system – the main substances being antibodies and T cells. 

Ms Bingham said: 'You'd do a prime with one vaccine, as in your first jab would be with one vaccine format, and then the second – whether it's 28 days or two months, or whatever the agreed period would be – would be with a different vaccine."

 

'Antibodies block the uptake of viruses into cells, and the T cells identify those cells that have been infected and then take them out, so you ideally want to have both.  So the idea of trying to mix and match is so that you can maximise the strength of that immune response to protect people against viral infection.'

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"Or whatever"...  Sure, what could possibly go wrong?  I'll take the whole lot, & make it snappy!  


Edited by Dorian Grey, 14 December 2020 - 06:57 AM.

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#34 Dorian Grey

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 08:20 PM

Time to add another substantial mutation to the growing list.  Last week it was mutation 501Y.V1 in england; today yet another new mutation announced in South Africa, 501Y.V2.  

 

https://www.dailymai...uth-Africa.html

 

CDC is monitoring new 'mutant' COVID strain from South Africa that is more infectious than the UK variant amid fears it could already be in the US

 

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says it is currently monitoring a second mutated strain of coronavirus even more infectious than the one already gripping the UK after it was discovered in South Africa.   

The new variant, which is feared to be driving a surge of infections among young people, is behind a powerful second wave of the virus in South Africa. 

The strain, different from the one in Britain that experts fear is 70 percent more infectious than what has previously been seen, appears to be more contagious than the original virus. 

----------------------------

I guess they'll be saying there is "no evidence the vaccines will not be effective against the new strains", but is there any evidence they will (be effective)?

Our multi-billion dollar vaccines may be obsolete before we can get them into everyone's arms.    

High time they start looking at outpatient therapeutics in my humble opinion.  This virus may be outrunning our vaccines.  


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#35 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 25 December 2020 - 05:57 AM

Most of these vaccines picked the spike protein as a target since it is highly conserved between these SARs covid viruses.

 

In fact, it's my understanding that the Moderna vaccine was actually developed for sars-cov-1, i.e. the original SARS virus, which shares a great deal of similarity with the current sars-cov-2 virus, particularly the spike proteins on the surface. Apparently their vaccine was already done when the current pandemic started.

 

 



#36 Dorian Grey

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Posted 03 January 2021 - 11:03 PM

Doh!  South African Covid variant could be resistant to vaccine

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-181215979.html

 

The coronavirus variant currently circulating in South Africa could be resistant to the vaccine, a leading expert has suggested, but cautioned it could take just six weeks to develop a new jab if needed.

 

"The mutations associated with the South African form are really pretty substantial changes in the structure of the protein," he said, adding that the strain had mutated in the part of the virus which allows antibodies to stick to it.

 

"we're now in a game of cat and mouse, because these are not the only two variants we're going to see. We're going to see lots of variants."


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#37 Mind

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 06:54 PM

Old people do not respond very well to vaccines, success rates are low. https://www.longecit...to-vaccination/

 

We could be using a proven treatment (Ivermectin or D3) to help old people, but instead, health bureaucracies are pushing multiple very expensive vaccines that probably won't do much to help the people most in need (the frail elderly and those with multiple co-morbidities - the vast vast majority of COVID deaths).

 


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#38 Dorian Grey

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Posted 07 January 2021 - 04:09 AM

Doh!  Wife of 'perfectly healthy' Miami doctor, 56, who died of a blood disorder 16 days after getting Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine is certain it was triggered by the jab, as drug giant investigates first death with a suspected link to shot

 

https://www.dailymai...19-vaccine.html

 

Heidi Neckelmann says obstetrician Gregory Michael, 56 - her ‘best friend’ and partner of 28 years – was active, healthy and had no pre-existing conditions before getting the jab on December 18. 

 

However he died from a stroke Sunday morning after suddenly developing a rare autoimmune illness that causes the body to destroy its own platelets, the tiny fragments that help blood to clot.

 

‘They tested him for everything you can imagine afterwards, even cancer, and there was absolutely nothing else wrong with him.’

Pfizer told DailyMail.com Wednesday that it was aware of Dr. Michael's ‘highly unusual’ death and was investigating further.

However a spokesman cautioned: ‘We don’t believe at this time that there is any direct connection to the vaccine.’

 

Dad-of-one Gregory suffered no immediate reaction to the injection but three days later he was taking a shower and noticed petechiae - spots of red that indicate bleeding beneath the skin - on his feet and hands.

 

When he checked himself into Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami Beach, the hospital where he works and had the groundbreaking vaccine, medics discovered he was suffering from an acute lack of platelets.

 

‘All the blood results came back normal except for the platelets which came back as zero,’ Heidi said.

 

Heidi says doctors tried frantically to reverse what they diagnosed as an acute immune disorder known as ITP - idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura.

In people with ITP, also known as severe thrombocytopenia, the immune system mistakes platelets for foreign objects and instructs the spleen to destroy them.  One solution to ITP is to remove the spleen but Heidi says he wasn’t a candidate because his blood wasn’t able to clot, making the operation too dangerous.

 

After two weeks of infusions and experimental treatments that failed to raise Gregory’s platelet count, doctors decided they had no choice.

However he died from a hemorrhagic stroke - when blood from an artery bleeds into the brain - before he could undergo the surgery.


Edited by Dorian Grey, 07 January 2021 - 04:16 AM.

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#39 zorba990

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Posted 07 January 2021 - 09:38 PM

Doh! Wife of 'perfectly healthy' Miami doctor, 56, who died of a blood disorder 16 days after getting Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine is certain it was triggered by the jab, as drug giant investigates first death with a suspected link to shot

https://www.dailymai...19-vaccine.html

Heidi Neckelmann says obstetrician Gregory Michael, 56 - her ‘best friend’ and partner of 28 years – was active, healthy and had no pre-existing conditions before getting the jab on December 18.


However he died from a stroke Sunday morning after suddenly developing a rare autoimmune illness that causes the body to destroy its own platelets, the tiny fragments that help blood to clot.


‘They tested him for everything you can imagine afterwards, even cancer, and there was absolutely nothing else wrong with him.’

Pfizer told DailyMail.com Wednesday that it was aware of Dr. Michael's ‘highly unusual’ death and was investigating further.

However a spokesman cautioned: ‘We don’t believe at this time that there is any direct connection to the vaccine.’


Dad-of-one Gregory suffered no immediate reaction to the injection but three days later he was taking a shower and noticed petechiae - spots of red that indicate bleeding beneath the skin - on his feet and hands.


When he checked himself into Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami Beach, the hospital where he works and had the groundbreaking vaccine, medics discovered he was suffering from an acute lack of platelets.


‘All the blood results came back normal except for the platelets which came back as zero,’ Heidi said.


Heidi says doctors tried frantically to reverse what they diagnosed as an acute immune disorder known as ITP - idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura.

In people with ITP, also known as severe thrombocytopenia, the immune system mistakes platelets for foreign objects and instructs the spleen to destroy them. One solution to ITP is to remove the spleen but Heidi says he wasn’t a candidate because his blood wasn’t able to clot, making the operation too dangerous.


After two weeks of infusions and experimental treatments that failed to raise Gregory’s platelet count, doctors decided they had no choice.

However he died from a hemorrhagic stroke - when blood from an artery bleeds into the brain - before he could undergo the surgery.


I was thinking it would be longer before we saw auto immune conditions from the mRNA grand experiment.
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#40 Mind

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 11:57 AM

There are a handful of reports of people (including nurses and doctors) having severe reactions or dying shortly after getting the vaccine(s). However, in order to prove harm, the number would have to be above the normal background mortality rate and the typical allergic reaction rate of vaccines in general.

 

I will note, however, that the phrase "out of an abundance of caution", is suddenly no where to be found when talking about the COVID vaccines.


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#41 Dorian Grey

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Posted 26 January 2021 - 09:53 PM

Sorry folks...  VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) data base is closed for cleaning & repair.  

 

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html

 

https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html

 

Apology: System Temporarily Down

VAERS component is temporarily down for maintenance.
Please bear with us for the next few hours.

We apologize for your inconvenience.

-------------------

A few hours?  Actually been down the last 11 days!  Oh well, probably not much going on anyway.  


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#42 Dorian Grey

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Posted 26 January 2021 - 11:20 PM

Apparently you can still download the history, but this gets truncated at Jan 15.  Note the deaths on the last page (Y = yes/died). 

 

Doh!  Data won't load correctly
 
 
Error
Error!

That URL was not found.

 

Try here: https://www.peakpros...mporarily-down/

 


Edited by Dorian Grey, 26 January 2021 - 11:32 PM.

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#43 Hebbeh

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Posted 31 January 2021 - 07:12 PM

Trials raise fears coronavirus is learning to resist vaccines - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

 

New clinical trials raise fears the coronavirus is learning how to resist vaccines

 

New data showing that two COVID-19 vaccines are far less effective in South Africa than in other places they were tested have heightened fears that the coronavirus is quickly finding ways to elude the world’s most powerful tools to contain it.

 

The U.S. company Novavax reported this week that although its vaccine was nearly 90% effective in clinical trials conducted in Britain, the figure fell to 49% in South Africa — and that nearly all the infections the company analyzed in South Africa involved the B.1.351 variant that emerged there late last year and has spread to the United States and at least 30 other countries.

 

Johnson & Johnson announced Friday that its new shot was 72% effective against preventing moderate or severe illness in the United States, compared with 66% in Latin America and 57% in South Africa.

 

Laboratory tests had suggested that the vaccines authorized in the U.S. — one from Pfizer and BioNTech, the other from Moderna and the National Institutes of Health — trigger a smaller immune response to the South Africa variant.

 

Now there is evidence from tests in people that some variants are less vulnerable to certain vaccines.

 

“From an evolutionary biology perspective, this is totally expected and anticipated,” said Dr. Michael Mina, a Harvard epidemiologist. “But it never feels good to be validated on something so scary.”

 

Researchers once believed it would take several more months, or even years, for the virus to develop resistance to vaccines. They said the speedy evolution is largely a result of the virus’ unchecked spread.

 

More than 100 million people have been infected worldwide, and each of those infections is an opportunity for the virus to randomly mutate.

 

A mutation that happens to give the virus an advantage — the ability to resist the body’s natural defenses, for example — can become the basis for a heartier variant.

 

One early sign that this process was underway was the significant number of people who were contracting the coronavirus a second time. It appeared that the training their immune systems received during the first infection was failing to protect them from new versions of the virus.

 

Scientists at Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech worried that the same thing could happen with immunity induced by their vaccines. In laboratories, they took several versions of the virus and exposed them to blood samples from a small number of people who had been vaccinated.

 

The neutralizing antibodies produced in response to Moderna’s vaccine were equally effective against the original coronavirus and the B.1.1.7 strain that emerged in the United Kingdom but were far less effective against the South Africa strain. Pfizer’s vaccine was only slightly less effective against the South Africa variant compared with the others.

 

Experts had cautioned that laboratory tests were an imperfect model for understanding the immune response in people.

 

Other parts of the immune system, such as T-cells, might play a role in fighting a variant, even when neutralizing antibodies fall short, said Marc Lipsitch, a Harvard epidemiologist.

 

That’s why the Novavax trial — the first to test the interactions between variants and vaccines in the real world — was so concerning.

 

“Whether people who have been vaccinated get infected with the variant — that’s the real proof in the pudding,” said Dr. Otto Yang, an infectious-disease researcher at UCLA.

 

Novavax cautioned that its South Africa study, which included about 4,400 patients, was too small to offer a precise measurement on the vaccine’s efficacy.

 

The Johnson & Johnson results provided further evidence that the problem was serious.

 

Experts said the weaker performance of the vaccine in South Africa — where it was tested on about 6,500 people — almost certainly was a result of the predominance of the variant circulating widely there. Researchers believe that it is more contagious than other variants and that it has become more common in South Africa and elsewhere since the trial began in September.

 

Researchers said variants were also likely to blame for the subpar showing of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine in Latin America — where it was tested in more than 17,000 people in Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico and Peru.

 

The mutations of greatest concern are on the spike protein on the surface of the virus, because the current crop of vaccines train the immune system to recognize that protein. Mutations there increase the likelihood that the virus will slip by undetected.

 

Mina, the Harvard epidemiologist, likened the process to searching for a criminal by memorizing the appearance of only his nose and mouth. At first, this may prove sufficient. But if the criminal gets a nose job, investigators will wish they learned about his eyes, ears and hair as well.

 

Mina said a more diverse arsenal of vaccines, employing a variety of approaches, is needed.

 

In the meantime, Moderna has announced efforts to develop a booster shot to add to its current two-shot regimen in order to fend off the South Africa variant. The company also plans to test whether a third shot of the original formula could help with other strains.

 

BioNTech, the companythat worked with Pfizer on its shot, is also considering developing an adjusted vaccine.

 

The United States reported its first known cases of the South Africa variant Thursday, in two people in South Carolina. The U.K. strain, which is also thought to be more contagious, is also circulating here.

 

In a briefing for reporters Friday, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said the confirmation that more transmissible strains are now in the U.S. is a “wake-up call” that underscores the need to rapidly vaccinate Americans.

 

“Vaccinating as many people as we can, as quickly as we can” is the key to slowing the ability of the virus to mutate, he said. “Viruses cannot mutate if they cannot replicate.”

 

The U.S. is vaccinating an average of 1.2 million people a day, said Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

Experts say that is far too slow, because there’s no knowing what kind of advanced variants will exist by the time the vaccination campaign reaches critical mass.

 

They stress that vaccination must be accompanied by defensive tactics such as masking and social distancing until case numbers are negligibly low.

 

“If you think you’re going to simply vaccinate your way out of this, it’s going to be like whack-a-mole,” said Susan Butler-Wu, director of clinical microbiology at L.A. County-USC Medical Center.

 

An effective vaccination campaign must eventually stretch around the world. If an impressive strain were to pop up next year in, for example, Brazil, even a fully vaccinated U.S. could be in danger.

 

“You can vaccinate the hell out of America,” said Mina, but “until everyone is protected, we’re all still at risk.”

 

Fauci called for bolstering the government’s ability to detect new viral mutations. Genetic sequencing efforts have been fragmented, relying on academics and other groups to voluntarily upload their findings. The U.S. sequences just 1% of the millions of positive samples collected during routine coronavirus testing.

 

Rest of story at link


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#44 Mind

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Posted 16 January 2022 - 08:27 PM

The WHO now says the COVID shots are not a useful way forward.

 

 

 

a vaccination strategy based on repeated booster doses of the original vaccine composition is unlikely to be appropriate or sustainable.

 


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#45 Advocatus Diaboli

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Posted 16 January 2022 - 09:36 PM

Re: post #44

 

The complete WHO statement can be found here. Note that the portion of the statement quoted in post #44 includes the words "original vaccine composition" (my emphasis).

 

The WHO is not abnegating the usage of COVID-19 vaccines, as a reading of the post #44 quote out of context might indicate.

 

The WHO goes on, in the link that I provided, to say:

 

"The TAG-CO-VAC considers that COVID-19 vaccines that have high impact on prevention of infection and transmission, in addition to the prevention of severe disease and death, are needed and should be developed. Until such vaccines are available, and as the SARS-CoV-2 virus evolves, the composition of current COVID-19 vaccines may need to be updated, to ensure that COVID-19 vaccines continue to provide WHO-recommended levels of protection against infection and disease[4] by VOCs, including Omicron and future variants.  (my emphasis)

 

So, clearly the WHO is not advocating the total abandonment of vaccines. The claim that: "the WHO now says the COVID shots are not a useful way forward", is prima facie untrue.

 

 


Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 16 January 2022 - 10:01 PM.

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#46 Mind

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 07:49 PM

Correction noted. However, if the "original" preparations are not useful, then variations targeted in the same manner, would seem to have trouble as well. If manufacturers cannot keep up with the variants, nor can the shots be delivered in a timely manner, then other health modalities would be a better way forward.


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#47 geo12the

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 09:11 PM

Correction noted. However, if the "original" preparations are not useful, then variations targeted in the same manner, would seem to have trouble as well. If manufacturers cannot keep up with the variants, nor can the shots be delivered in a timely manner, then other health modalities would be a better way forward.


With flu vaccines, they are a cocktail of different flu variants circulating that year. They can easily do the same thing for COVID. Create updated versions and cocktails based on the spike protein of the variants as they emerge. For example you could have mRNA vaccine that is a mix of Delta and Omicron Spike. Main thing holding that back is regulatory hurdles. Seems like they are being made to test every new version of the vaccine, unless I am mistaken. Problem is by the time they finish the testing, so much time has elapsed that the the variant will have subsided and other variants will start to be be dominant. They need to ease the regulation on these vaccines.

Edited by geo12the, 17 January 2022 - 09:20 PM.

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#48 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 03:12 PM

With flu vaccines, they are a cocktail of different flu variants circulating that year. They can easily do the same thing for COVID. Create updated versions and cocktails based on the spike protein of the variants as they emerge. For example you could have mRNA vaccine that is a mix of Delta and Omicron Spike. Main thing holding that back is regulatory hurdles. Seems like they are being made to test every new version of the vaccine, unless I am mistaken. Problem is by the time they finish the testing, so much time has elapsed that the the variant will have subsided and other variants will start to be be dominant. They need to ease the regulation on these vaccines.

 

There's a problem with that strategy. It's a known phenomena that if you repeatedly vaccinate with the same or a very similar vaccine year after year - eventually you train the immune system that this substance (normally the surface proteins) are not dangerous foreign invaders and the immune system starts ignoring them.

 

If you think about it, this is exactly the theory that allergy immunotherapy (i.e. "allergy shots") works on. You take something that you have an allergy to (i.e. an immune response) and you repeatedly expose your immune system to it over a long period of time, usually in escalating doses.  Eventually the immune system is desensitized and your allergy is greatly reduced or eliminated.

 

The reason you don't see this with the annual flu shot is that the influenza strains change from year to year and they are substantially different.

 

So this is a danger of vaccinating for something like covid over a long period of time. Unless you really substantially change the target you pick for your vaccination (versus just subtly changing the details of the spike protein as they drift over time) not only can your vaccine become ineffective, it can actually become counterproductive. You run the risk of training the immune system to ignore spike protein altogether.

 

The real route out of this pandemic is the route out of every other viral pandemic in the history of mankind - eventually as the virus mutates and becomes more optimized for it's new host it becomes more transmissible and less lethal. It looks like that is what we're seeing with omicron. Fingers crossed.


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#49 Mind

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 11:35 PM

With flu vaccines, they are a cocktail of different flu variants circulating that year. They can easily do the same thing for COVID. Create updated versions and cocktails based on the spike protein of the variants as they emerge. For example you could have mRNA vaccine that is a mix of Delta and Omicron Spike. Main thing holding that back is regulatory hurdles. Seems like they are being made to test every new version of the vaccine, unless I am mistaken. Problem is by the time they finish the testing, so much time has elapsed that the the variant will have subsided and other variants will start to be be dominant. They need to ease the regulation on these vaccines.

 

Working in the media business, I see the failure of the flu vaccine every year. Variants that are not in the flu shot spread all over the world every year and at least in the U.S. there has not been a reduction in flu deaths since the inception of the flu shots even as more people take them every year. In addition, the flu shots do not work very well in the elderly, as mentioned previously in this thread.

 

Reducing regulations/testing on the COVID shots, when the long term side effects of the first formulations are not even known yet, seems like a disaster waiting to happen.


Edited by Mind, 18 January 2022 - 11:36 PM.

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#50 DanCG

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Posted 22 January 2022 - 10:43 PM

There's a problem with that strategy. It's a known phenomena that if you repeatedly vaccinate with the same or a very similar vaccine year after year - eventually you train the immune system that this substance (normally the surface proteins) are not dangerous foreign invaders and the immune system starts ignoring them.

 

If you think about it, this is exactly the theory that allergy immunotherapy (i.e. "allergy shots") works on. You take something that you have an allergy to (i.e. an immune response) and you repeatedly expose your immune system to it over a long period of time, usually in escalating doses.  Eventually the immune system is desensitized and your allergy is greatly reduced or eliminated.

 

The reason you don't see this with the annual flu shot is that the influenza strains change from year to year and they are substantially different.

 

It is not exactly tolerance that is the issue, it is T cell exhaustion. Dr. Been has an excellent explanation here. In the end, the result is almost the same—the immune response to the antigen is shut down. The difference between an antigen exposure that leads to immunity vs. one that leads to tolerance is the presence or absence of a “danger signal” at the time of antigen presentation. Foreign RNA and Spike protein are themselves irritants which are danger signal.

Traditional vaccines provide the danger signal by including an adjuvant. Allergy shots provide the antigen, but no adjuvant. This leads to tolerance, but not by the mechanism of immune exhaustion.


Edited by DanCG, 22 January 2022 - 10:44 PM.

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#51 syr_

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Posted 25 January 2022 - 12:52 PM

Well, the data is out there. The hard part is to interpret it properly.



#52 Mind

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Posted 07 March 2022 - 09:30 PM

 

The CDC director said nobody thought about whether or not new variants would emerge or that the effectiveness of the injections would wear off.

 

PAGING DR. WALENSKY!!!!

 

I thought of it right from the beginning. With people like Walensky running the show, no wonder the U.S. has had such a horrible worthless pandemic response.

 

Since this is about the Pfizer/Moderna injections, I will leave out many of the other pandemic responses that were either utterly useless or outright harmful.

 

-In at least one of the Pfizer contract facilities the study was fraught with errors and shoddy work.

-The original claim that the injections were 95% effective (Fauci even said 100% in one interview) was relative risk reduction. The absolute risk reduction was only 0.84%.

-The CDC is recently hiding data about the effectiveness of the injections.

-Recent UK and Scotland data indicates the injected people are dying at a much higher rate (from COVID) than the un-injected.

 

In one of the more sane countries - Iceland - all COVID pandemic measures have been dropped. Everything. They tried everything (like other countries) and they still ended up with cases swamping the nation. When it doesn't work - you stop doing it. Unfortunately, many other countries continue living the fiction.

 

 


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#53 Dorian Grey

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Posted 24 July 2023 - 05:10 AM

Here's a way to positively guarantee your vaccine will be effective, even if it's just a saline placebo!  

 

Heather & Brett explain here: 

 

 

Norman Fenton's original video here: 

 

 

When failure is not an option, you gotta use fuzzy math.

 

BRILLIANT!  


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#54 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 25 July 2023 - 09:00 PM

Here's a way to positively guarantee your vaccine will be effective, even if it's just a saline placebo!  

 

Heather & Brett explain here: 

 

 

 

Norman Fenton's original video here: 

 

 

 

When failure is not an option, you gotta use fuzzy math.

 

BRILLIANT!  

 

I guess the right way to run that test would be to take both arms (active and control) administer your vaccines (active and placebo), then wait your 2 week/3 week blackout period (however long), then throw out all the people that got sick during that interval from both arms then start counting infections.  That would seem to me to be neutral.

 

Another dataset of interest would be to compare the active and control arms during your blackout period to see if the active arm got more or less infections during that interval. 

 

If they are really pushing people from the active arm that got sick during their blackout period into the control arm, that's completely messed up.


Edited by Daniel Cooper, 25 July 2023 - 09:00 PM.

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