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#1 Engadin

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 02:03 PM


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Politics Influences the Science of COVID-19

 

 

 

 

S O U R C E :   Josh Mitteldorf's 'Aging Matters' blog

 

 

 

 

Many of us are still shell-shocked by the changes in our lives that have been imposed this spring. We’re reacting to each unexpected event as it comes. But to anyone who has stepped back to make sense of this web of contradictory messages that pour out of our newsfeeds, it is clear that the government agencies and corporate news media are slanting their message toward fear. I am particularly concerned when they do this at the expense of honesty. This is a moment for the scientific community to be engaging in spirited dialog among diverse voices. Only with open debatei can we hope to shed light to guide the momentous public policy decisions that are being made, directing our culture and global economy into unexplored territory. But instead of robust debate, what I see is a monolithic message, and censorship of the few brave scientists who dissent from that message. I’m ashamed to say that the scientific community has been part of the problem.

 

 

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I’m writing here about two issues: 

(1) Numbers reported by CDC have been gamed to make it appear that America is in the second wave of a pandemic. Instead of reporting COVID deaths, they began reported COVID cases. Then they conflated recovered individuals (who test positive for antibodies) with current cases (who test positive for the active virus). No wonder numbers are rising!

(2) A new report featured prominently in Nature purports to show that lockdowns have stemmed the spread of the virus and have saved lives. The article is by the same team whose flawed models produced apocalyptic predictions last March that justified lockdowns in Europe and the US. The new computer model assumes from the start that the number of COVID deaths would have expanded exponentially from their March levels, and that social distancing is the only factor responsible for lower death rates. That is, it assumes exactly what it purports to prove. Where is accountability? Why is this perspective promoted in the world’s most prestigious journal, while reasonable doubts are swept aside?

 

Part One—CDC reporting

The global death rate from COVID-19 is down to about 4,000 per day. It is not even among the top ten causes. COVID is lower than traffic deaths, lower than diarrhea. Even compared to other respiratory infections, COVID is now a minority.
 
 
Top-ten-causes-of-death-768x497.png
 
In the US, daily COVID deaths peaked in April, and are now down to 1/10 the peak rate, at about 400/day. COVID is now the sixth leading cause of death in America, but it no longer registers as a bump in total mortality.
 
 
Top-US-causes-of-death-768x481.png
 
 
Overall-US-trend-1024x773-1.png
 
 
daily-covid-cases-deaths-768x542.png
 
 
Deaths from COVID are being over-reported. Hospitals are incentivized to diagnose COVID with Medicare reimbursement rates that are higher than other diseases, and guaranteed coverage from every major insurer. Doctors are being instructed to report COVID as a cause of death when no testing is done, and when chronic illnesses contributed to the outcome. And with all this, the number of deaths continues to fall, even as the reported number of cases is rising. Why is this?
 
In part, the lower fatality rate is real. Doctors are learning from experience how to treat the disease. More chloroquine and zinc, less intubation. Like all viruses, this one is evolving toward greater contagion and lower lethality. But the most important explanation is an artifact in the way COVID cases are being reported. Before May 18, the “case count” was based on tests for the live virus, and counted only sick people. Then the definition was changed to count both people who tested positive for the virus and for antibodies to the virus. The latter group is mostly people who have recovered from COVID, or who developed antibodies with exposure. As the number of recovered patients increases, of course the rate of positive tests will increase.
 
 
Part Two—Models that “prove” lockdown has saved lives
 
In the past, Neil Ferguson’s group at Imperial College of London has produced scary computer models that overestimated the epidemics of Mad Cow Disease, Avian Flu, Swine Flu, and the 2003 SARS outbreak. In March, his group’s computer model was justification for England, Europe and America to shut down economies, prevent people talking and meeting, prohibit concerts and theater and church and every kind of public gathering, throw tens of millions of people out of work, deny the rights to freedom of assembly that are fundamental to democratic governance. His manuscript was not even peer reviewed, but only posted on a university server. Even before its details and assumptions were made known, the integrity of the model was assailed by other experts, including Stephen Eubank (UVA Biocomplexity Institute) and Yaneer Bar-Yam (New England Complex Systems Inst). After details of the assumptions were revealed at the end of April, the model was widely scorned by real experts (e.g. Andrew Gelman) and self-appointed pundits (Elon Musk).
 
I have enough experience with computer models to know that results are often highly leveraged with respect to details of the input. Sensitivity analysis is essential for interpreting results, but is almost never done. Too often, the output is reported without the qualification that small changes to the input produce very different results.
 
Against this background, the high-profile publication in Nature of Ferguson’s recent work is suspicious. I would have thought he had no credibility left among serious modelers of epidemiology, but I have ceased to be surprised when politics trumps competence for access to the most prestigious publication venues.
 
 
The Ferguson Article Vindicating Lockdown
 
They analyze spread of COVID in 11 Eurpoean countries this Spring, averaging over different countries but not contrasting the different local strategies. They take death counts as surrogate for case counts because reports of case counts are even more unreliable than death counts. But (one of several crucial failures) they don’t apply a time lag between death counts and case counts.
 
They take as input for each country the dates on which each of three different isolation strategies was implemented. They assume that the virus would have spread exponentially but for these measures, and credit the isolation measures with the entire difference between reported death rates and the theoretical exponential curve.
 
They conclude that Europe has dodged a bullet, that less than 4% of people had been infected, and by implication the lockdown has saved the other 96%. They imply but don’t state explicitly that there would have been about 4 million deaths in Europe instead of ~150,000 reported when the paper was written.
 
It is obvious that lockdown and social isolation slow the spread of the disease, but not obvious that they affect the eventual reach of the disease. Thus it is an open question whether the public policy prevented or only delayed deaths from COVID. This question can be addressed most directly by comparing regions that were locked down with regions that remained open. Instead of doing this, the Ferguson group lumped all regions together and compared their results with an unrealistic scenario in which the exponential curve would have expanded to infect every susceptible person in Europe.
 
 
Two schools of thought
 
There are fundamentally two hypotheses about the epidemiological events of this spring: Either the number of people exposed has been high and the fatality rate low, or else the number of people exposed has been low and the fatality rate higher. People in the first camp argue that the exposed population is over 50% in Europe and America, approaching or exceeding herd immunity, and the population death rate is in the range 0.0005. In the second camp, people estimate the population exposure about ten times lower (5%) and the fatality rate correspondingly higher (0.005).
 
 
 
 
 
 
.../...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Edited by Engadin, 09 July 2020 - 02:13 PM.

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#2 gamesguru

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 06:45 AM

Try not to view the masks as a permanent thing.

It took us months to find out this thing attacks blood vessels, years to find out HIV was causing AIDS. Have some patience and respect, it's not just about the fatality rate which is over 10x the flu, but based on outcomes, whole body inflammation, and damage.

And yeah wouldn't be too opposed to fining people during flu season. Seems like wearing a mask to the store is way nicer than 3 days of vile symptoms twice a winter.

The comparison to past respiratory viruses is also arbitrary and pre meditated. Why not compare it to novel immunosuppressing viruses, then it is no longer in the category of the flu, but of more closely HIV. It's also worth noting antibodies to COVID don't last too long, estimates range from 6 months to 3 years. So this whole idea we should seriously damage our lungs every three years for the sake of herd viral immunity could likely be shown patently asburd.
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#3 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 11:12 AM

See this is my issue. We've gone from fining/prosecuting people for not wearing a mask in a somewhat unusual pandemic to "yeah wouldn't be too opposed to fining people during flu season".  We do not argue by slippery slopes.  But that doesn't mean that slippery slopes don't exist.

 

As to the comparison to HIV, we've never legally sanctioned people for spreading a virus they didn't know they have.  To prosecute someone for having unprotected sex knowing they have HIV is one thing.  What you're proposing is fundamentally different.  It would in fact be exactly like prosecuting someone for having any unprotected sex.  "You must always wear a mask in public" would be exactly like "you must always wear a condom when having sex with someone you aren't married to".  Do you see the leap of logic that's been made?

 

I think once you establish this legal precedent it will be used in ways you do not anticipate.

 

Also, it's strange to me that someone that thinks the current resident of the White House is a literal fascist would want to hand even more power to the government.  I would think that someone with that opinion would see the logic in having a government with well defined boundaries and scope.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#4 Hip

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 03:29 PM

As to the comparison to HIV, we've never legally sanctioned people for spreading a virus they didn't know they have.  To prosecute someone for having unprotected sex knowing they have HIV is one thing.  What you're proposing is fundamentally different.  It would in fact be exactly like prosecuting someone for having any unprotected sex.  "You must always wear a mask in public" would be exactly like "you must always wear a condom when having sex with someone you aren't married to".  Do you see the leap of logic that's been made?

 

I do see the leap of logic. 

 

But this leap is often taken in other areas of law: there are many areas of law where you can be prosecuted for merely exposing others to a statistical risk of harm, rather actually causing harm.

 

Drink-driving is an example: if you are just above the US legal limit for alcohol, you are statistically around 10 times more likely to die in a vehicle crash compared to when sober. Ref: here.   

 

People are prosecuted for drink driving, even if they have caused no accident, merely because of the statistical risk.

 

We are not setting any legal presidents just by passing legislation which prosecutes or fines people just because their actions lead to a statistical likelihood of harm to others.

 

 

 

At the moment in the US, based on the 1000 coronavirus deaths a day which are occurring, you can calculate that about 1 in every 1000 people have coronavirus and are actively shedding the virus, but without knowing they have it (because symptoms have not yet started). So if you meet a random person, there is a 1 in 1000 chance of that person being infected and shedding the virus in their saliva.  

 

But that 1 in 1000 chance does not really capture all the risks which are involved: we know that if we are not careful, there will be exponential growth in the number of cases, in which case the death toll will rise dramatically. This potential for exponential growth is the most severe risk we have to consider.


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#5 Mind

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 07:07 PM

Mask mandates, ever more extreme PPE requirements, isolation, lockdowns, etc... will become permanent, it the "slippery slope" is not countered. Broward county Florida has already passed an ordinance requiring everyone to wear masks in their homes at all times. South Korea has been "masked-up" for 7 months, with no end in sight.

 

People have already posted in this forum that we should NEVER go out in public without protection and there should be lockdowns during cold and flu season every year.

 

It used to be that everyone just accepted that respiratory viruses were a part of life. Vulnerable people (such as chemotherapy patients) were advised to be careful because "a cold could kill you". This has changed now (just in the last week or two, in the U.S.). Now there is a push that the entirety of human society and economic activity should be suspended or severely restricted to protect the small number of people who are more vulnerable to various pathogens.

 

The health consequences are severe. Humans are social beings. Already we see from this pandemic (which has an overall population mortality rate of a fraction of 1 percent), that substance abuse and suicide have risen dramatically. Children are being cultured to believe that the outside world and everyone they meet is toxic. Rates of depression are rising as businesses close. People are not getting medical care or screening for other fatal diseases. Life extension research is being impacted negatively and slowing down. Why destroy progress and the health of everyone, when it would be much more efficient to protect the frail elderly and immuno-compromised (who are the vast vast vast majority of fatalities in regards to COVID-19). Why are children wearing masks when they are 4 times less likely to die of this disease than the flu and there is scant evidence that they even transmit the coronavirus to anyone? Maybe some people just have a fetish of torturing children. I really don't know, because it makes zero sense.

 

In the end, for those who are advocating SEVERE criminal penalties, including manslaughter charges for people who don not wear masks, what about Sweden and all of the other countries that do not have mask mandates? Should they be hauled in front of the ICC and be sent to prison? That is a serious question. Sweden has taken the approach that individuals should make their own decisions about their health - offering sound advice about how to act during an infectious disease event, but without criminalizing normal human behavior. Seems logical. That is how most successful societies have operated throughout history. Are they now mass-murdering psychopaths? That is a serious question.


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#6 Florin

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 08:54 PM

Why destroy progress and the health of everyone, when it would be much more efficient to protect the frail elderly and immuno-compromised (who are the vast vast vast majority of fatalities in regards to COVID-19). Why are children wearing masks when they are 4 times less likely to die of this disease than the flu and there is scant evidence that they even transmit the coronavirus to anyone? Maybe some people just have a fetish of torturing children. I really don't know, because it makes zero sense.


How exactly are vulnerable people that don't live in nursing homes going to be protected?

 

If there's solid evidence that children aren't vectors, they shouldn't wear masks, of course.
 

In the end, for those who are advocating SEVERE criminal penalties, including manslaughter charges for people who don not wear masks, what about Sweden and all of the other countries that do not have mask mandates? Should they be hauled in front of the ICC and be sent to prison? That is a serious question. Sweden has taken the approach that individuals should make their own decisions about their health - offering sound advice about how to act during an infectious disease event, but without criminalizing normal human behavior. Seems logical. That is how most successful societies have operated throughout history. Are they now mass-murdering psychopaths? That is a serious question.

 

There should definitely be some sort of punishment for the experts who should have known better but still advised against mask wearing. This is especially true for those experts in places like Sweden that still don't recommended even voluntary mask wearing. If Sweden isn't a case of mass manslaughtering at the very least, why do we even have manslaughter laws on the books? If manslaughter charges aren't appropriate, what is? Firing them? Blacklisting? Suing? Tarring and feathering? Slapping their wrist? Strongly lecturing them not to be so incompetent next time, when the bioterrorists start a campaign of global annihilation? For the average Joe, a fine should be fine.


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#7 Dorian Grey

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 09:07 PM

Came across an interesting chart posted elsewhere (attached).  Case Fatality Rates by Country by HCQ use.  Individual CFR's can be misleading, but I find this crude meta-analysis intriguing.  Overdosing critically ill patients didn't work for the WHO, but apparently the placebo effect is saving lives elsewhere.  

 

Attached Files


Edited by Dorian Grey, 24 July 2020 - 09:07 PM.

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#8 gamesguru

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 09:15 PM

As to the comparison to HIV, we've never legally sanctioned people for spreading a virus they didn't know they have.

You also can't easily spread HIV by coughing.


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#9 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 03:47 AM

You also can't easily spread HIV by coughing.

 

Which is entirely irrelevant to the comparison made.

 

Requiring someone to wear a mask in public on the notion that they might have covd is entirely analogous to requiring someone to wear a condom whenever engaging in intercourse on the notion that they might have HIV.

 

Verstehen?

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#10 Florin

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 05:25 AM

That's a bad analogy. Intercourse is usually voluntary, whereas exposing yourself to the maskless public wouldn't be.


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#11 gamesguru

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 10:34 PM

Which is entirely irrelevant to the comparison made.

 

The original comparison was made by you of quite ignorantly arguing the position that wearing masks would lessen our immunity to "respiratory viruses" in general which tend to have a very significant innate immune component as well as a decaying acquired immunity for which lethality is never an issue.  Take people who have been exposed to smallpox for generations, and many will still die.  Expose immulogically naive indigenous people of Indonesia, and practically no one will die as in the West.

 

The comparison to HIV still stands as being more fair than the original one which you drew.  COVID is very evidently a midpoint between the common cold (which is ubiquitous and benign) and ebola/HIV (which are invariable fatal).  It is therefore comparable to HIV in that it transmitting it to someone can pretty much ruin their, or their grandparents' lives.  It however differs from HIV in that it can be spread by coughing down the street.

 

If that's so hard to understand, I suggest some bacopa, ginseng and physical exercise to add 5-10 IQ points.

 

It's your opinion that wearing a mask is like wearing a condom.  Being ignorant of carrying the infection is a detail to me.  I would regard a prostitute who lies about their HIV status as morally corrupt, the fact that laws do not exist to punish this person is viewed as a defect of our current system.


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#12 gamesguru

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 11:57 PM

I meant to say the immunologically naive indigenous people wouldn't have any fatalities if exposed to the common cold or flu for the first time, but a grammatical error made it seem like they were superhuman and impervious to ebola.  Obviously that's not the point i was trying to convey, apologies


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#13 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 01:39 AM

The original comparison was made by you of quite ignorantly arguing the position that wearing masks would lessen our immunity to "respiratory viruses" in general which tend to have a very significant innate immune component as well as a decaying acquired immunity for which lethality is never an issue.  Take people who have been exposed to smallpox for generations, and many will still die.  Expose immulogically naive indigenous people of Indonesia, and practically no one will die as in the West.


Do me a favor. Show me where I said that wearing a mask would lessen our immunity to "respiratory viruses". You have this very consistent habit of attributing things to people that they've never said and arguing against positions they've never taken.

 


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#14 gamesguru

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 02:03 PM

Abusive behavior will not be tolerated.  Posting privileges suspended.


Edited by Daniel Cooper, 26 July 2020 - 06:58 PM.

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#15 Mind

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 05:43 PM

 

Interesting how the U.S. media goes full-on racist against an immigrant from Africa, the minute anything that could possibly reflect positively upon the U.S. President pops up.


Edited by Mind, 28 July 2020 - 05:43 PM.

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#16 Hebbeh

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 06:24 PM

Interesting how the U.S. media goes full-on racist against an immigrant from Africa, the minute anything that could possibly reflect positively upon the U.S. President pops up.


Racist? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't factual. And why do you always have to make it political? It's obvious where the real conspiracy theories originate.

Edited by Hebbeh, 28 July 2020 - 06:26 PM.

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