61 replies to this topic

[lancebr]

Epidemiological evidence for association between higher influenza vaccine uptake in the elderly and lower COVID‐19 deaths in Italy

 

"We investigated whether there was any relationship between influenza vaccination and COVID‐19 outcome in Italy. For the 2019 to 2020

influenza season, a quadrivalent cell‐based influenza vaccine (QIV) was available for the first time in Italy and the rest of Europe, in addition

to the trivalent inactivated vaccine (TIV) and the adjuvanted TIV.2, 3 The QIV vaccine uses the Madin‐Darby Canine Kidney (MDCK) cell line,

instead of fertilized chicken eggs, for growing the influenza virus."

 

"We found a moderate to strong negative correlation (r = −.5874, n = 21, P = .0051), meaning that where there were higher influenza vaccination

rates, less deaths from COVID‐19 occurred."

 

 

https://onlinelibrar....1002/jmv.26120

Edited by lancebr, 22 September 2020 - 06:50 AM.

[hotbit]

 

"We found a moderate to strong negative correlation (r = −.5874, n = 21, P = .0051), meaning that where there were higher influenza vaccination

rates, less deaths from COVID‐19 occurred."

 

 

https://onlinelibrar....1002/jmv.26120

 

Very interesting. What could be the mechanism?

- were vaccinated and not-vaccinated groups comparable (comorbidities, social and financial status etc)?

- have they (Italy) had a flu epidemics as well during the covid-19 pandemic, but deaths were contributed to covid-19 where possible?

 

One thing we know is that most of the data on covid-19 is fake-ish:

• loose rules of assigning the cause of death during the peak of pandemic in some countries
• ''do not resuscitate' orders
• spreading rapidly disease among elderlies through care & health systems
• comparing numbers of cases disregarding amount of tests conducted per million population
• hysteria in assigning a myriad of damages Sars-Cov-2 is allegedly causing in the body
• dubious reliability of tests (PCR is non-indicative of virulence):

Does a PCR “TRUE POSITIVE” mean INFECTIVITY OR VIRULENCE?
What does viral culture tell about PCR positives?

 

A PCR test might find the virus it was looking for. This results in a PCR positive, but a crucial question remains:  is this virus active, i.e. infectious, or virulent? The PCR alone cannot answer this question.

https://www.cebm.net...t-do-they-mean/

 

Every year many people have scratchy throat, cough, high temperature etc. Now, if person with any of such symptoms tests positive, she's assumed to have covid-19 and nobody asks questions, despite possibility the person carries only dead, non-infectious remnants of the virus.
And I expect no health system is interested to conduct tests for other viruses, at least not for an average person.

 

A person, whose body is not far away from the natural homoeostasis is quite perfectly resistant to Sars-Cov-2. Therefore, adjustment of vitamin D3 level and other key markers should take priority. Whether we are talking cold (including covid-19) or flu.

To take a flu shot or not? The question everybody should answer for himself in absence of current casedemic misinformation.

[Dorian Grey]

The study lancebr cited appears to be specific to the elderly, which typically get a flu shot with an extra kick of antigen or adjuvant to jolt their sleepy immune system into high gear. 

 

It may well be the heightened inflammatory state created by the senior shot may have helped their immune system respond more quickly to the coronavirus.  

 

This said, there is an incredible amount of spin going on for everyone to get the flu shot.  I know the last few years they have been saying even when the vaccine is a poor match for the circulating strain of flu, it still will lessen the symptoms and morbidity, though I have yet to see a valid study that affirms this claim.  

 

I wouldn't be surprised to learn they had to do some cherry picking to come up with their claim the flu shot prevents COVID morbidity in the elderly.  It will be interesting to see if this theory holds through the Winter.  I'm betting it will not!  

 

Wolff, G., 2020. Influenza vaccination and respiratory virus interference among Department of Defense personnel during the 2017–2018 influenza season. Vaccine, 38(2), pp.350-354

 

“Receiving influenza vaccination may increase the risk of other respiratory viruses, a phenomenon known as virus interference.” 

 

“Examining non-influenza viruses specifically, the odds of both coronavirus and human metapneumovirus in vaccinated individuals were significantly higher when compared to unvaccinated individuals (OR = 1.36 and 1.51, respectively).” 

 

"This translates to a 36% higher risk of getting coronavirus"

[lancebr]

I noticed that Mercola used the Department of Defense study, by G. Wolff, to explain his reason for not

recommending the flu shot, but he failed to mention that the author of that study said the following in response

to using his study in relation to Covid 19:

 

"the results of this study cannot and should not be interpreted to represent any sort of relationship or association of influenza

vaccination receipt and COVID-19 illness. Results from this study DO NOT support the anti-vaccination viewpoint of avoiding

seasonal influenza vaccination, and in fact should be interpreted in the opposite manner, since significant protection against

influenza was associated with vaccination receipt, and a slight decrease in the odds of infection from other respiratory viruses

was also noted. Results from this study should not be applied to or interpreted with COVID-19 in any way."

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC7250546/

 

 

Edited by lancebr, 24 September 2020 - 03:43 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

I noticed that Mercola used the Department of Defense study, by G. Wolff, to explain his reason for not

recommending the flu shot, but he failed to mention that the author of that study said the following in response

to using his study in relation to Covid 19:

 

"the results of this study cannot and should not be interpreted to represent any sort of relationship or association of influenza

vaccination receipt and COVID-19 illness. Results from this study DO NOT support the anti-vaccination viewpoint of avoiding

seasonal influenza vaccination, and in fact should be interpreted in the opposite manner, since significant protection against

influenza was associated with vaccination receipt, and a slight decrease in the odds of infection from other respiratory viruses

was also noted. Results from this study should not be applied to or interpreted with COVID-19 in any way."

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC7250546/

 

A clarification the study occurred before the new coronavirus even appeared, and therefore should not be construed as implying a connection with COVID is certainly appropriate, however absence of proof is not proof of absence.  

 

The coronavirus family has in fact been linked with cross-immunity to its SARS-CoV-2 cousin, & there is speculation some who appear to have immunity or asymptomatic disease may have developed this through exposure to other coronavirus.  This considered, it's not all that far a stretch to opine if the influenza vaccine predisposes older coronavirus, it may well have a similar effect with SARS-CoV-2.  

 

Falling ill shortly after getting influenza vaccine is the number 1 reason cited by those who no longer take it.  I've experienced this myself, and have become a strong believer in the "immune distraction" hypothesis.  If the flu shot was more than 20-40% or so effective, there might be some balance to the risk/reward ratio, but an ineffective vaccine that predisposes other illness is not something I'm excited about taking.  

 

Time will tell.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 24 September 2020 - 04:58 PM.

[albedo]

Interesting study (note: not yet peer reviewed and would need larger studies for confirmation) uncovering a positive effect of flu vaccine in the attenuation of C-19 severity: people who were not been immunized with last year’s influenza vaccine displayed greater chances of hospitalization and ICU:

 

"Every year, influenza causes 290.000 to 650.000 deaths worldwide and vaccination is encouraged to prevent infection in high-risk individuals. Interestingly, cross-protective effects of vaccination against heterologous infections have been reported, and long-term boosting of innate immunity (also termed 31 trained immunity) has been proposed as the underlying mechanism. Several epidemiological studies also suggested cross-protection between influenza vaccination and COVID-19 during the current pandemic. However, the mechanism behind such an effect is unknown. Using an established in-vitro model of trained immunity, we demonstrate that the quadrivalent inactivated influenza vaccine used in the Netherlands in the 2019-2020 influenza season can induce a trained immunity response, including an improvement of cytokine responses after stimulation of human immune cells with SARS-CoV-2. In addition, we found that SARS-CoV-2 infection was less common among Dutch hospital employees who had received influenza vaccination during the 2019/2020 winter season (RR = 0,61 (95% CI, 39 0.4585 - 0.8195, P = 0.001). In conclusion, a quadrivalent inactivated influenza vaccine can induce trained immunity responses against SARS-CoV-2, which may result in relative protection against COVID-19. These data, coupled with similar recent independent reports, argue for a beneficial effect of influenza vaccination against influenza as well as COVID-19, and suggests its effective deployment in the 2020-2021 influenza season to protect against both infections."

 

The effect of influenza vaccination on trained immunity: impact on COVID-19

Priya A. Debisarun, Patrick Struycken, Jorge Domínguez-Andrés, Simone J.C.F.M. Moorlag, Esther Taks, Katharina L. Gössling, Philipp N. Ostermann, Lisa Müller, Heiner Schaal, Jaap ten Oever, Reinout van Crevel, Mihai G. Netea

medRxiv 2020.10.14.20212498; doi: https://doi.org/10.1....10.14.20212498

https://www.medrxiv....0.14.20212498v1

 

[hotbit]

 

Several epidemiological studies

Epidemiological studies are like statistics. One can find almost anything applying some "small" intentional or unintentional mistakes.

Maybe people who take flu vaccines on average do carry about their health more in general than those who don't take the vaccine? I can't image how they can eliminate all co-founding factors.

There are plenty studies showing vegan diet is much better than red meat, comparing... health-conscious vegans with binge eating, junk food devouring groups.

[Dorian Grey]

Interesting flu shot season in the Northern Hemisphere was September/October, & we're now seeing surges of coronavirus with new lock-downs all over the Northern Hemisphere in November.  Could simply be the colder weather, but it looks like we're headed for a fine mess. 

 

I assume the boffins will be looking at the stats on flu vaccination in new COVID cases.  If the flu shot helps, it will be all over the front pages soon.  If it doesn't, or actually increases susceptibility, any mention of this will be censored as misinformation.  

[Hebbeh]

https://www.msn.com/...est/ar-BB1axBfK

Your Flu Shot May Protect Against COVID, Studies Suggest

Aside from wearing a mask, social distancing and practicing good hand hygiene, there is one thing you can do this fall that might lower your risk of contracting COVID-19: Get a flu shot. That's the conclusion of a new study, which found that hospital workers who had been vaccinated against the flu were less likely to be infected with coronavirus than those who didn't get the shot.

In the study, which was released in preprint form and has not yet been peer-reviewed, researchers in the Netherlands looked at hospital databases to gauge COVID infection rates among employees who had received the flu vaccine. They found that workers who had been vaccinated had a 39 percent lower chance of testing positive for coronavirus by June 1 of this year.

Rest at link

[Hebbeh]

https://www.webmd.co...om-severe-covid

Flu Shot May Shield You From Severe COVID

The coronavirus and the flu are two entirely different viruses. But a new study suggests those who get a flu vaccine face a considerably lower risk for being hospitalized if and when they get COVID-19.

And the flu vaccine also appears to significantly reduce a COVID-19 patient's risk for ending up in an intensive care unit (ICU), researchers say.

The findings are based on an analysis of electronic health records for 2,000 COVID-19 patients. All had tested positive for the virus at some point between this past March and August. And just over 10% of the patients had previously been vaccinated for the flu.

"The flu and COVID-19 are indeed different disease processes caused by different viruses," stressed study author Dr. Ming-Jim Yang. "Although some of the symptoms may overlap between the two diseases, they potentially have different short-term and long-term consequences."

It's also the case that "COVID-19 still has a much higher mortality [rate] than the flu," Yang noted. And long-term lung, heart and brain problems seen among surviving COVID-19 patients "do not seem to happen with the flu," he added.

Nevertheless, "our team looked at patients who tested positive for COVID-19 and saw that patients who received the influenza vaccine within the last year were less likely to be hospitalized and be admitted to the ICU," Yang said.

How much less?

"COVID patients who had not received a flu vaccine within the last year had 2.4 times greater odds of being hospitalized and 3.3 times greater chance of being transferred to the ICU," said Yang, a third-year resident in family medicine in the department of community health and family medicine at the University of Florida in Gainesville.

Rest at link

[albedo]

The recent positive news on the coming vaccines against Covid-19 might change our individual approach toward the flu shot this year depending on our exposure situation. I for one am reconsidering the shot (was scheduled but did not take it yet, in agreement with my doc and considering co-mormidities). There is some preliminary evidence pointing to virus competition and a protective effect, mediated by interferon and non-specific immune response, against serious Covid-19 (limitation: excluding mild cases by study design) from having made the shot last year:

 

(PREPRINT) Interactions between SARS-CoV-2 and Influenza and the impact of coinfection on disease severity: A test negative design

Julia Stowe, Elise Tessier, Hongxin Zhao, Rebecca Guy, Berit Muller-Pebody, Maria Zambon, Nick Andrews, Mary Ramsay, Jamie Lopez Bernal

medRxiv 2020.09.18.20189647

doi: https://doi.org/10.1....09.18.20189647

• "...Interpretation: Cocirculation of these viruses could have a significant impact on morbidity, mortality and health service demand. Testing for influenza alongside SARS-CoV-2 and maximising influenza vaccine uptake should be prioritised to mitigate these risks..."
• "...influenza infection was associated with a lower risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection..."
• "...coinfection with influenza and SARS-CoV-2 was associated with an increased risk of death or severe disease stimulation of non-specific immune responses by the first infectious agent, such as the induction of a refractory state in bystander cells as a result of the antiviral effect of interferon induced as part of an innate immune response to an RNA viral infection..."
• "...the risk of death was nearly six times greater among individuals with a SARS-CoV-2 and influenza coinfection than those with neither influenza nor SARS-CoV-2 and that this effect is significantly higher than the risk associated with SARS-CoV-2 infection alone. Similarly, the combined outcomes of ventilator use or death and ICU admission or death gave similar results..."
• "...Therefore, the majority of SARS-CoV-2 cases were individuals with moderate to severe symptoms and mild cases are likely to be missed..."
• "...Cocirculation of these two viruses could have a significant impact on morbidity, mortality and health service demand. As the 2020-2021 northern hemisphere influenza season approaches, it is important that a high index of suspicion for coinfection is maintained. Testing strategies should include influenza and other respiratory viruses as well as SARS-CoV-2 and measures should be adopted to prevent coinfection including maximising uptake of influenza vaccination, particularly in groups at higher risk of both diseases..."

Edited by albedo, 18 November 2020 - 09:30 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

An investigation has determined that spooky report of dozens of South Koreans dropping down dead shortly after getting their flu jab was in fact just a weird wacky coincidence.  

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-141403637.html

 

South Korea deaths 'not linked' to mass flu vaccine campaign, says health agency

 

"Concerns about the safety of the flu shot soared following the deaths of dozens of people after they received the injection."  

 

"an investigation showed there were “no causal links” between the flu vaccination and death"

 

"Autopsies on at least some of that group found they had cardiovascular, cerebrovascular or other serious health conditions that could account for their deaths."

 

--------------------------------

 

So there you have it...  No Proof!  Those old duffers weren't in the best shape to start with, so guess it was just their time to go.  The fact that many still had band-aids on their arm from their flu jab doesn't mean a thing.  

[albedo]

Finally I did not get my flu shot this year, despite I wanted so. So far, so good and working even harder on prevention. My MD told me this year probably the flu isn't going to be bad and I am not hearing much about it. Maybe I am going to be better off when I will get the C19 shot when my time will come.

[Dorian Grey]

News Flash: Positive association between COVID-19 deaths and influenza vaccination rates in elderly people worldwide

 

https://peerj.com/articles/10112/

 

"The results showed a positive association between COVID-19 deaths and IVR of people ≥65 years-old. There is a significant increase in COVID-19 deaths from eastern to western regions in the world. Further exploration is needed to explain these findings, and additional work on this line of research may lead to prevention of deaths associated with COVID-19."

 

-----------------------

 

A possible explanation for the massive surge in the Northern Hemisphere, that began even before Thanksgiving, but right around the time most folks have gotten their flu jab.  

 

And they pushed so hard for everyone to get their flu shot (the dreaded twindemic); this despite the known association between the flu jab & non-COVID coronavirus.  No Proof!  

 

Love the way they frantically try to fact-check their own paper up front.  No, correlation does not always equal causation, still; absence of proof is not proof of absence.  

 

Oh well...  We live & learn.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 21 January 2021 - 05:27 AM.

[lancebr]

So is anyone planning on getting the flu shot this year, or just going to pass on it?

 

 

[Dorian Grey]

So is anyone planning on getting the flu shot this year, or just going to pass on it?

 

I noticed Novavax & one of the other major COVID vaccines (Pfizer?) were working on an integrated jab that included influenza and COVID booster in one jab.  We may not have any choice in the matter.  

 

I'll be both avoiding the flu shot in any form, and delaying any COVID booster to the end of the line.  

 

The confusion on boosters & timing, as well as pre-teen jabs has a lot to do with the side effects (my humble opinion).  I've read some expect an increase in side effects with the third jab, and we'll likely have more than a few dead kids once they start jabbing the young ones.  Some are worried it may be a fine mess that turns the tide of the public against the vaccines.  Time will tell.  

[lancebr]

I have been on the fence about getting the flu shot this year, but there have been a few studies that came

out this past year after the previous flu season during Covid and Im liking what the studies say about the

protection that the flu shot gives toward Covid.

 

"A paper published February in the American Journal of Infection Control found that people jabbed with influenza

vaccines were 24% less likely to get infected with the coronavirus than unvaccinated people. They also had reduced

chances of needing hospitalization (58%) and mechanical ventilation (45%), as well as shorter hospital stays (76%)."

 

https://www.miamiher...e252727768.html

 

https://journals.plo...al.pone.0255541

 

https://bmjopenrespr...ock-system-main

 

 

.

Edited by lancebr, 14 September 2021 - 08:30 AM.

[albedo]

This year I am rather following strictly the same measures such as FFP2 masks etc after my Covid-19 vaccination and will perform self tests when appropriate (events etc..) but am not planning the flu shot as per today. I might reconsider though. Will see. Not a big deal for me as I was taking the same precautions before the pandemic. 3rd booster shot for Covid-19 is not yet in discussions by authorities, we just had the Covid certificate extension to almost everywhere (covid recovery or negative test or vaccination).

[lancebr]

The confusion on boosters & timing, as well as pre-teen jabs has a lot to do with the side effects (my humble opinion).  I've read some expect an increase in side effects with the third jab, and we'll likely have more than a few dead kids once they start jabbing the young ones.  Some are worried it may be a fine mess that turns the tide of the public against the vaccines.  Time will tell.  

 

Well it looks like several experts think that the boosters are not a good idea:

 

"FDA vaccine regulators argue against Covid-19 vaccine boosters in new international review"

 

https://www.statnews...ccine-boosters/
 

Edited by lancebr, 15 September 2021 - 08:00 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

Well it looks like several experts think that the boosters are not a good idea:

 

"FDA vaccine regulators argue against Covid-19 vaccine boosters in new international review"

 

https://www.statnews...ccine-boosters/
 

 

England seems to have some sanity prevailing.  No jabs for pre-teens and boosters only for those over 50 (who want them?).  No vaccine passports for pubs & grub.  

 

Here in America, vaccine mania rules the day, & FDA will bow to Biden.  Mandatory boosters for all who wish to leave their homes, and more than a few dead kids as they get shots required for school all the way down to kindergarten.  

 

I'm also betting the US will push hard for a COVID / flu shot combo jab, so influenza vaccine will also become essentially mandatory too.  It's going to be a fine mess.  

[lancebr]

Interesting article about how the flu vaccine may protect against Covid:

 

https://www.news-med...9-immunity.aspx

 

 

Also a study looking at the Wolff study data and finding that the Wolff study had some problems

with its methodology of the data:

 

https://academic.oup...16/2285/5842161

 

"In assessing Wolff’s paper we identified a major methodological problem to account for his

unexpected findings.....we have reanalyzed Wolff’s data as well as our own, comparing

influenza vaccine effect against NIRV when influenza test-positive specimens are properly

excluded (as per TND prerequisite) or improperly included (as per Wolff) within the control group."

 

"In conclusion, our findings provide reassurance that protective influenza vaccination does not negatively

affect NIRV risk, including coronaviruses."

Edited by lancebr, 09 October 2021 - 03:07 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

Interesting article about how the flu vaccine may protect against Covid:

 

https://www.news-med...9-immunity.aspx

 

 

Also a study looking at the Wolff study data and finding that the Wolff study had some problems

with its methodology of the data:

 

https://academic.oup...16/2285/5842161

 

"In assessing Wolff’s paper we identified a major methodological problem to account for his

unexpected findings.....we have reanalyzed Wolff’s data as well as our own, comparing

influenza vaccine effect against NIRV when influenza test-positive specimens are properly

excluded (as per TND prerequisite) or improperly included (as per Wolff) within the control group."

 

"In conclusion, our findings provide reassurance that protective influenza vaccination does not negatively

affect NIRV risk, including coronaviruses."

 

Damage control, with a quick-fix rearranging of data.  Real world evidence is plain for all to see.  Just look at last Winter's COVID spike following flu shot season.  We'd all gotten the social distancing, mask mandates, dining bans down, yet we got hit with the most massive COVID wave to date.  

 

My own experience with non-influenza illness following the flu shot was similar.  Sick with astonishing swiftness 3 years running, once I decided to start getting the flu jab for my new job. 

 

NEVERMORE!  

[lancebr]

Damage control, with a quick-fix rearranging of data.  Real world evidence is plain for all to see.  Just look at last Winter's COVID spike following flu shot season.  We'd all gotten the social distancing, mask mandates, dining bans down, yet we got hit with the most massive COVID wave to date.  

 

My own experience with non-influenza illness following the flu shot was similar.  Sick with astonishing swiftness 3 years running, once I decided to start getting the flu jab for my new job. 

 

NEVERMORE!  

 

Actually there are many people who now believe it was the severe lockdowns during the winter that caused the winter surges.

 

 

It is well known that when people stay closed up indoors that virus spreads easier and are more contagious then when people are outdoors.

 

"the winter transmission boost is likely to be a lot larger because of one factor on which virtually all experts agree on: in most of the country

people will be spending more time indoors, where the coronavirus is transmitted far more effecienty"

 

"A study from researchers in Japan, based on contract tracing, found that infected people were 19 times more likely to pass on the infection

when they were indoors than outdoors."

 

https://www.medrxiv....2.28.20029272v2

 

They have also found that the Covid is more infectious in low relative humidity weather...like during the winter. 

 

"Epidemiological research suggests that anything below 40% will help the virus thrive."  During the winter the indoor relative

humidity usually can drop as low as 15% typically in most states....so that is just another factor that can increase the transmission

of Covid during the winter.

 

 

There is also the fact that during the winter months the body does not appear to perform as well at fighting viruses:

 

"A march epidemiological metastudy from researcher at Yale and in Switzerland, suggests that dry air indoor helps to preserve the virus and

at the same time impairs the immune system's ability to fight off when it first takes hold in the nose or elsewhere in the airway:

 

https://www.annualre...y-012420-022445

 

https://medicine.yal...i/?tab=research

 

 

So, I think this past winter surge had nothing to do with the flu vaccine, but everything to do with the insane lock downs and and how the cold

weather affects Covid transmission and how the body fights the infections.

 

 

And I know there will be some people who will respond to this saying...but what about the Delta surge during the summer.  Well that is a different

situation for two reasons:

 

1. The Delta variant is known to be more transmissible then the first variant so it probably didn't matter much when it hit.

 

2. But more importantly...I think that in a roundabout way the Covid vaccines had a lot to do with the surge....I can't count how many times I have

seen or ran into people over the summer who were coughing or sneezing out in public and thought it was fine because they had been vaccinated. 

I remember once situtaion where I was standing in line at a retail store and this lady in line started coughing and coughing and the person in

front of her and the one behind her distanced themselves from her and in repsonse she said "you have nothing to worry about I have

had my two shots".  I just thought that was the stupidest comment.  You have a lot of these people who believe since they got the

Covid vaccine they can not pass it on to other people so they go out in public and are coughing and sneezing with the attitude there

is nothing to worry about. So I think a lot of these people who did not understand that the vaccine did not keep it from spreading were

out and about spreading it if they caught it and were not symptomatic.....or some of them could have been symptomatic and still out spreading

because they didn't think they had anything to worry about since they had gotten the vaccine.

Edited by lancebr, 09 October 2021 - 09:47 PM.

[Gal220]

If you are a believer in gargle + nasal rinse for covid, it also applies for the flu.  Even better is nebulized .1% hydrogen peroxide imo  - Link , Link2

 

 

[albedo]

Only marginal effect, quite limited study but interesting nevertheless and thought to share  ....

 

"...Our results suggest that an influenza vaccination seems to have a protective effect against COVID-19 infection, which implies that an influenza vaccination may trigger nonspecific immune responses that help protect against COVID-19 infection. This finding was also consistent with prior evidence that suggested that an influenza vaccination may reduce the risk of a COVID-19 infection or severe COVID-19 illness3–8. There is also a hypothesis that immune responses in the influenza vaccine may induce bystander immunity against SARS-CoV-217...."

 

"...Despite the positive findings, a few studies have reported a null association between influenza vaccination and risk of COVID-19 infection21..."

 

Huang, K., Lin, SW., Sheng, WH. et al. Influenza vaccination and the risk of COVID-19 infection and severe illness in older adults in the United States. Sci Rep 11, 11025 (2021). https://doi.org/10.1...598-021-90068-y

[Daniel Cooper]

On all of these studies showing lower covid infection rates amongst those who got the influenza vaccine - could it be that the people that routinely get flu vaccines are just more health conscious in general (so fewer comorbidities) and are perhaps more cautious about things like mingling about in large crowds?

 

I don't know that this is necessarily the case, but for the life of me can't think how you would back out those types of effects from the studies.

 

So these studies may prove one of two things:

 

1.) Flu vaccines provide some immunological benefit with respect to covid.

 

or

 

2.) People that get flu vaccines tend to look after their health status more so than people that don't.  In other words, you are comparing two dissimilar populations.

 

 

 

[pamojja]

So these studies may prove one of two things:

1.) Flu vaccines provide some immunological benefit with respect to covid.

or

2.) People that get flu vaccines tend to look after their health status more so than people that don't. In other words, you are comparing two dissimilar populations.

I can think of many more options and populations. For example, I don't even remember my last flu. 26 years ago I still did, because while catching my first malaria (out of 7 infections) I remember then evaluating that malaria not worse as a serious flu.

Since then most I got was colds. So also my covid-infection 2 month ago, which lasted 1 evening with a running nose only. Therefore fitting into above study, without ever having had a flu-vaccine (and at least 25 years without any flu), I easily got infected with covid..

..as if that would matter any, if it only causes a running nose for an evening.

[albedo]

The article below (1) in the NEJM made me think about aging, “reinforcing the host” and boosting immune response to vaccination. I wonder about how the SARS-Cov-2 pandemics is also hinting, since its starts as we gathered info on the higher impact on aging population, to serious antiaging interventions. The hint comes from an analogy with influenza vaccine efficacy waning, for a number of different reasons as with SARS-Cov-2 vaccines, but potentially being recovered in the senior population by antiaging and longevity interventions (2). To me we might have a hint here to both a combination of a mix of evidence-based solutions, including vaccination, and at the same time the necessity of increasing clinical trials on human antiaging interventions reducing immunosenescence, IMHO

 

(1) Monto AS. The future of sars-cov-2 vaccination — lessons from influenza. N Engl J Med. 2021;385(20):1825-1827.

https://www.nejm.org...56/NEJMp2113403

 

(2) Mannick JB, Morris M, Hockey HUP, et al. TORC1 inhibition enhances immune function and reduces infections in the elderly. Sci Transl Med. 2018;10(449):eaaq1564.

https://www.science....anslmed.aaq1564

 

PS Btw, differently than 2020, i just did my vaccination for this year influenza.

[albedo]

"Susceptibility to SARSCoV2 infections is highly variable, ranging from asymptomatic and mild infections in most, to deadly outcome in few. Here, we present evidence that antibodies induced by currently circulating influenza A H1N1 (flu) strains cross react with the most critical receptor binding motif of the SARSCoV2 spike protein that interacts with the ACE2 receptor. About 58 to 68% of blood donors in Stockholm had detectable antibodies to this cross-reactive peptide, NGVEGF, and seasonal flu vaccination trended to enhance binding of inhibitory antibodies to SARSCoV2. This peptide also activated CD8 T cells in 20% of healthy subjects. Eleven additional CD8 T cell peptides that cross react with flu and SARSCoV2 were identified that potentially protect against SARSCoV2 in 40 to 71% of individuals, depending on their HLA type." (red mine)

 

Influenza A H1N1 mediated pre-existing immunity to SARS-CoV-2 predicts COVID-19 outbreak dynamics

Nerea Martin Almazan, Afsar Rahbar, Marcus Carlsson, Tove Hoffman, Linda Kolstad, Bengt Ronnberg, Mattia Russel Pantalone, Ilona Lewensohn Fuchs, Anna Naucler, Mats Ohlin, Mariusz Sacharczuk, Piotr Religa, Stefan Amer, Christian Molnar, Ake Lundkvist, Andres Susrud, Birger Sorensen, Cecilia Soderberg-Naucler

medRxiv 2021.12.23.21268321; doi: https://doi.org/10.1...12.23.21268321

[lancebr]

It looks like this years flu shot is now considered a mismatch of the prevalent flu strain going around:

 

https://www.biospace...cine-mismatch-/

 

But, hopefully it will still offer some protection against Covid.

 

Edited by lancebr, 27 December 2021 - 04:56 PM.