7 replies to this topic

[2 Duckets]

Anyone know any natural way to DOWN regulate 5ht2c receptors?

I think I have too many due to years of Kratom and Benzo use.

Thank you for your help!

[DaveX]

I'm also interested in reliable methods. Meanwhile I'm using herbs mentioned in this study, or mostly in particular Panax Ginseng:

https://www.bioray.c...or_GABA_etc.pdf

The study ascribes a hypnotic effect to those herbs acting on the 5-HT2C receptor, however I think that's not really associated with this receptor and that part is rather an effect of 5-HT2B agonism - which is just as welcome to be downregulated for me, as it seems to be very similar in dopamine-decreasing, serotonin-increasing effects to the 5-HT2C receptor. I think those herbs are agonists for both, but also often for 5-HT2A. If one doesn't want that downregulated, one should take an atagonist for that.

Bacopa is also said to regulate 5-HT2C (unclear by which mechanism), and usually when I feel I have excess 5-HT2C (e.g. from trying Kudzu), that often helps too. It is also a 5-HT2A antagonist, as far as I know.

Omega 3 is also said to help balance those receptors (e.g. on selfhacked).

Edited by DaveX, 26 August 2020 - 03:47 PM.

[DaveX]

Regarding 5-HT2B also being unwanted I have largely relied on a wording in this study:

https://link.springe...1064-016-1938-5

Or accessed here:

https://sci-hub.st/h...1064-016-1938-5

 

Where it says: "Within the nucleus accumbens, activation of 5-HT2A receptors increases dopamine release, whereas activation of 5-HT2B/C receptors produces the opposite effect. Similarly, the activation of 5-HT2A receptors within the medial prefrontal cortex increases the activity of dopamine cells in the ventral tegmental area, and stimulates the release of dopamine in both the ventral tegmental area and the medial prefrontal cortex."

 

It's quite rare to see such a clear assignment of roles in a study, which is appreciated in and of itself. However I think one can see for oneself whether one likes 5-HT2B or not, as I think the downregulation works, but unless very different factors are involved (or actually the reverse happened), it might not be so good.

Feverfew pure plant powder (rather than extract) is a 5-HT2B antagonist, so the opposite, and an irreversible one at that, which is supposed to cause faster recycling of receptors (at first irreversible sounded bad, but I read about that, and it feels right):

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/11603284/

 

In my experience, in the end one doesn't like either path one tries in most cases, however maybe some 5-HT2B is good...

Edited by DaveX, 01 September 2020 - 08:24 AM.

[2 Duckets]

Thanks for the info. I think my 5htc2 receptors are down regulated due to 10 years kratom use. I withdrawal really bad from kratom. I also withdrawal bad from Kudzu which is a 5ht2c receptor antagonist. Kratom is a 5ht2c antagonist.

Would 100mg nightly dosing with 5-Htp downregulate 5ht2c receptors?

Edited by 2 Duckets, 01 September 2020 - 06:00 PM.

[DaveX]

I would guess nightly 5-HTP would downregulate 5-HT2C, along with other receptors, you just might want to think about which 5-HT receptors you want to keep strong, because others would be affected as well. In theory you could also figure that out afterwards, when you notice you don't feel so well anymore or the usually positive 5-HTP effect starts to weaken and you become more tired, unable to concentrate etc. Standard receptors you usually want to protect from downregulation are probably 5-HT1A. You can antagonize (for protection or upregulate them) by Zinc, for example, and lots of herbs really, like standardly St. John's Wort, Berberine...

 

However I wanted to mention I would try Bacopa extract first, it regulates 5-HT2C on its own (I haven't seen clearly explained how in any study, they just speak of balancing results, but it seems to be indirect regulation) and I find that gives a usually decent baseline for not too high 5-HT2C. Curcumin also acts and presumably downregulates 5-HT2C, it is on the whole very harmless and wholesome.

I think Panax Ginseng, Reishi and those plants in the first study I linked actually downregulate 5-HT2C by agonism, but so also 5-HT2A or 5-HT2B.

 

Here is an article on selfhacked (possibly one has to enter one's e-mail address to read it now):

https://selfhacked.com/blog/5-ht2c/

 

It also mentions Inositol and other stuff.

Edited by DaveX, 01 September 2020 - 10:29 PM.

[DaveX]

By the way, one of the side-effects of Ginseng is that it can cause relatively persistent tiredness. I think I could mostly reverse it by Zinc (would suggest involvement of NMDA/GABA or 5-HT1A) and Curcumin (could suggest CB1 involvement). It also upregulates K-opioid receptors which decrease dopamine:
https://jneuroinflam...2974-018-1087-7
One could probably reverse this by apigenin, e.g. from camomille, or St. John's Wort, which have opioid antagonism.
Anyway for these reasons I would now prefer looking into the other plants mentioned in the first study I linked.

[DaveX]

"An additional compound that was characterized in earlier work as an allosteric modulator of the 5-HT2CR was oleamide (22), the primary amide of oleic acid.

...

This naturally occurring compound has been reported to exhibit a complex pharmacological profile interacting with systems including cannabinoid receptors and various 5-HTXRs"

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6761005/

 

So, Omega 9 fatty acid?

Edited by DaveX, 06 October 2020 - 08:49 PM.

[kurdishfella]

5ht2a has links to anxiety/stress and anything that has can be lowered via meditation/meditating/meditate by finding calmness. But I read somewhere too much can actually have opposite effect somewhat and increase certain brain regions while decreasing others. thats as natural as it gets

Edited by kurdishfella, 07 October 2020 - 01:52 AM.