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Please help me solve the mystery of my sleep

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#1 Starchild1337

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Posted 14 September 2020 - 11:45 AM


Here's some data and clues:
- 31yo male

- takes ritalin for adhd (suspect cause of sleep issues but problems don't stop when I stop taking it for two weeks)

- I fall asleep easily but I wake up too early (6 hours of sleep instead of the preferred 8)
- I can only fall asleep in one position and that is on my stomach, head on pillow facing right
- Zinc before bed helps to move it up to 7 hours of sleep but I still wake up 1 hour too early, I don't even need an alarm anymore
- Melatonin doesn't really help and has digestive and other side effects

- if I take any kind of CALCIUM supplement today, I will have even more trouble sleeping, wake up in the middle of the night, why??
- when I was on SSRIs I would sleep for like 12 hours and wake up groggy but SSRIs scare me because of side effects (I still have lingering libido issues)

Sleep is incredibly important for memory and brain health and I can notice the effects of even that 1 hour I'm missing every night because my short term and long term memory is worse. I've tried so many things, taurine, lion's mane, cordyceps, melatonin, B vitamins (help a little), pregabalin... but nothing really fixes it. And the things that help, I have a feeling they don't really restore deep sleep, they just make me groggy enough to not wake up. I feel tired but can't sleep properly. It is hell. I used to sleep for 10 hours when I was a teenager and never thought I would have these problems.



#2 YoungSchizo

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Posted 14 September 2020 - 02:53 PM

6 hours isn't that bad honestly but I get what you mean.

 

If it were up to me I would like to sleep 2/3 of the day, I love sleep and my dreams are a lot more fun than a depressing reality.

 

Anyway, since you take Ritalin I would say check Clonidine for your sleep issues. Clonidine has the potential to put and keep someone at sleep that uses stimulants like Ritalin. 


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#3 pro-v

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Posted 14 September 2020 - 04:22 PM

I had many of the same issues as you including calcium screwing with my sleep and being a stomach sleeper. I’ve also taken ritalin and a host of other meds/supplements too. Exercise, eat right and practice good sleep hygiene. If that’s not working, go see a dr and have a sleep study performed.
That being said, the only supplement that really helps increase the amount and quality of sleep for me is L-ornithine. There’s also no rebound insomnia if you discontinue taking it like many of the drugs that’s affect GABA.
Another experiment you can try is to abstain from, or limit to a minimal amount, all electronics such as phones/tv/computers for several days. This usually resets my sleep clock If I’m having issues.
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#4 Starchild1337

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Posted 14 September 2020 - 05:17 PM

Thanks for the replies. Yes, many people have told me that 6 hours is fine, but for me it's definitely not fine. I am VERY sensitive to sleep deprivation. Even 1 hour less than 8 and my mood and memory suffers. I used to sleep for 9 hours when I was 20. It's good for your youthfulness too, skin was always looking young. I'll try Clonidine and l-ornithine. Probably magnesium too. I've tried like 15 different things so far :( 



#5 RYAN474

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Posted 20 September 2020 - 01:23 AM

There are so many factors that could go into your issue, I'm barely going to scratch the surface, but a couple of initial thoughts: 

 

- The peptide ipamorelin is worth a try. Most people report improved sleep on this, me included. It is one of the few things I've tried that actually helps, and I've tried a lot of things prescription and non prescription over 15 years. It makes me sleep longer and deeper, and wake feeling dramatically more refreshed than without it. I've been on 400 mcg every night before bed, sq or IM jnection, for about 1.5 years.  Makes sense that it improves sleep being that it increases growth hormone and there is some sort of self reinforcing positive cycle with growth hormone and deep sleep. My IGF-1 was sub-optimal so my doctor at defy medical clinic prescribed it at my request. Defy is a concierge telemedicine clinic, with hormone emphasis. Dr Saya is who I would recommend. Alternatively, I also recently heard about https://www.limitles...nootropics.com/ from Jay Campbell. I prefer to get prescribed legitimate compounded stuff so I've never bought anything from there, but it is probably putting out legitimate stuff if Jay Campbell is recommending it. 

 

- B12 (pure encapsulations liquid hyroxy/cyano, NOT methyl). I take 1-2 drops 1 to 2 days per week and it makes me sleep longer and deeper. If i take daily, it makes me sleep too much and causes grogginess/ low level depression. Unclear why. But 1-2 days/week, seems to give my sleep the slight boost it needs. 

 

- Weight lifting (before 5pm preferably) is a cornerstone. This is critical to getting good deep sleep for me. Cardio even just 15-25 min light jogging or similar is helpful as well. 

 

Note, I also have issues with sleep if I have anything containing calcium. Especially closer to bedtime. This has been the case forever, so I avoid calcium supplements. I thought maybe it was a parathyroid issue and/or vitamin D issue. My girlfriend has the same issue with calcium. I cannot take oral vitamin D3 or D2 because it messes me up. I just get sun and a sperti vitamin D lamp or tanning lamp for my vitamin D. 

 

I also take ritalin and am 35. 

 

There are a lot of hormonal things that may be worth looking into. And stress management i.e. meditation. Sauna is very helpful for me. Room temperature control and bed temperature control is a major factor for me (chili pad). If the room or bed gets too hot, I will wake up and not be able to get back to sleep. If it's too cold, I will wake up and not get back to sleep.  Colder at night, and warmer late morning is helpful. I have the chili pad on a timer so it goes off at about 6am so that from 7-8 my bed warms up, which helps get that final 1-2 hours of sleep (lots of REM at that time). 

 

 

 


Edited by RYAN474, 20 September 2020 - 01:24 AM.

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#6 csrpj

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 08:27 AM

- The peptide ipamorelin is worth a try. 

 

Do you combine it with a GHRH (like mod grf)? From what I understand, using GHRPs with GHRHs has a synergistic effect and, as a rule of thumb, a logical choice, with ipamorelin and mod grf 129 a common combo. I haven't tried but very interested in this.



#7 RYAN474

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 09:44 PM

Do you combine it with a GHRH (like mod grf)? From what I understand, using GHRPs with GHRHs has a synergistic effect and, as a rule of thumb, a logical choice, with ipamorelin and mod grf 129 a common combo. I haven't tried but very interested in this.

 

The only thing I've tried to combine it with is sermorelin. I did not like the effects (mood worsened and appetite increased) so I went back to ipamorelin only. I have been thinking about trying to add something else to it, so will have to look into mod GRF. 



#8 CharlieG

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Posted 08 October 2020 - 09:14 PM

Has your sleep improved at all? Have you seen a sleep doctor or had a study? I have a few tips from my personal experience. First, you may want to look into glycine. It has many benefits (one is that it helps increase collagen synthesis) - but the reason I take it is for my sleep. I also have tried many things you mentioned with either no luck or with annoying side effects. But, for some reason, if I take glycine, I just fall asleep and sleep more soundly. I tend to take 1 1000mg supplement a couple hours before bed. Then, when going to bed, I take one more. Many people take more than that but I don't find it is necessary. The supplement is cheap too. Besides that, I recently got a red light panel with near infrared as well from Mito (cheapest one I could find for the best quality, etc. and they had a military discount) - and since I started using it, my sleep is so much better. I've had the same issue where I wake up early and can't go back to sleep. Since using this red light device early on in the day, I sleep better, really feel like I am getting rest and haven't been waking up at that early time I normally get up at. I think it's at least worth looking into. I have been very skeptical of the red light devices but over the past couple of weeks, I've had great results. The off days when I don't use it, I sleep less deeply and wakeup super early again.



#9 Starchild1337

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Posted 06 March 2021 - 11:12 AM

So, months later, same issue. Tried glycine, didn't help. Tried valeriana, didn't help. Tried chamomile tea, didn't help.

 

The only things that help a little are zinc and magnesium.

 

And the weirdest thing is, when I really have to go somewhere in the morning, like a serious obligation, then I usually manage to get the full 8 hours of sleep.

 

This issue has made me dumber, my memory is not what it used to be and my skin looks worse. I don't know what to do.



#10 kurdishfella

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Posted 06 March 2021 - 06:22 PM

Dont drugs change your dna? It takes more than 2 weeks. First Ritalin has to leave your body, then your dna has to ´´repair´´ itself back to normal self because the drug has been activating different pathways. Then your body has to get back into the normal sleep schedule which can take a while. Also since ritalin affects hunger like most drugs even if you dont realize the side effects they can still be there, so havent been eating normally. 


Edited by kurdishfella, 06 March 2021 - 06:23 PM.


#11 adamh

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Posted 06 March 2021 - 08:06 PM

I'm a long time insomniac, I take various things to get to sleep and stay asleep. Recently I found the problem was not so much getting to sleep but staying asleep. I would wake up after 4 or 5 hours and not get back to sleep. In my case I felt anxiety when I woke up. I found doing deep relaxation exercises during the day helped with that but required a lot of maintenance.

 

One thing that has helped a lot is pregnenolone. Its a pro hormone which is changed into other hormones that the body needs. I took 2 x 25mg before bed and had the best nights sleep I had in many months. Now I'm taking 1 every couple days before bed and its helping. Last night I woke again, it was dark out but instead of laying there trying to sleep and getting up tired, I went back to sleep and woke up feeling well. I read that it helps to reduce cortisol and reduces stress.

 



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#12 Starchild1337

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Posted 08 March 2021 - 02:43 PM

I tried pregnenolone too and it didn't help. But I did take it in the morning, hmm.

 

What I'm gonna try now is to got to sleep early. Been reading about circadian rhythms and it says that as you age your cicardian rhythm moves towards waking up at like 7 or 8 in the morning, and for some older people it moves to like waking up ideally at 4AM which sucks.







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