4 replies to this topic

[benbest]

For nearly a decade I have been maintaining the LongeCity webpage comparing cryonics organizations:

 

https://www.longecit...ticles/cryonics

 

My most recent update was for June 2019.

 

The culture at CI is hostile to me, to openness, and to objective comparison. In September 2015 CI ceased reporting how many members have funding and contracts, undoubtedly to make the "members" number more impressive. Historically, only about half of CI "members" have had full arrangements for cryopreservation.

 

ACS refuses to disclose membership numbers, probably because they are so low. Oregon Cryonics now has only one staff member: Jordan Sparks, the owner. Jordan has reportedly lost hope that current cryonics can work. My only contact with Yinfeng Cryomedicine is Aaron Drake, who is no longer in China and has not answered my email.

 

KrioRus CEO Valerija Pride has been the most forthcoming in providing me with statistics, but the many conflicting reports I receive about the chaotic situation at KrioRus make me hesitant to publish.

 

The new Alcor CEO has required that I sign a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) for access to Alcor statistics, meaning that I cannot publish them if I have access.

 

New cryonics organizations are in the pipeline, including Australia's Southern Cryonics, Switzerland's European Biostasis Foundation, Spain's CeCryon and possibly new organizations in Russia.

 

So I am resigning as a volunteer maintaining the LongeCity cryonics organizations comparisons page. Nonetheless, I believe that the page will remain a useful resource for LongeCity and the cryonics community for the coming decade, despite the most recent update being for June 2019.

 

[caliban]

Thank you so much for your efforts Ben!  

As you say, there is much on that page that will remain very informative, apart from the numbers of signups/member/contracts.

We will revise the page for 2020 and beyond and your feedback on that effort would be invaluable.     

[MaximilianKohler]

Thanks for that info Ben. I wasn't aware of that page. I added it to the /r/cryonics wiki: https://old.reddit.c...g-organizations

 

I also agree with your sad description of CI culture. Unfortunately, there are significant deficits with all current options, so we don't have the simple choice of switching to a "better" provider. I was considering running for the CI board but was warned that CI is a Dictatorship, ran behind the scenes by CI's lawyer. And trying to buck that would likely end me up in the same spot as David Stodolsky.

 

 

Regarding ACS, I gathered that the general idea was ACS is better than signing up with Alcor or CI since if something were to happen to Alcor or CI then ACS could just move you to one of the other organizations.

 

Problem is, I contacted them on Jan 2020 at cryonics@americancryonics.org to ask for more details and they never responded. So it seems quite risky to sign up with a provider that is that unresponsive.

 

 

Also, I object to the Rudi Hoffman recommendation. In my experience Rudi Hoffman is merely a self-interested salesman. He has some specific products he wants to sell people, to make as much money for himself as possible, and is uninterested in anything beyond that.

 

He is not someone who genuinely cares about getting cryonicists the best insurance policy for them, or even getting every cryonicist a policy.

 

His lack of care may have cost me my life. He was the first person I contacted and he told me I was uninsurable. I gave up on trying for years after that only to find out later it wasn't true. There are multiple insurance companies that were able to insure me, and he was either not knowledgeable or willing.

 

The reality was I wasn't a good fit for what he wanted to sell people.

 

Having observed his behavior in the years since, I am even more so convinced that my assessment of him is accurate. And I find it fairly concerning that so many cryonicists seem to be duped by his salesmanship, and continue to promote him. 

 

[benbest]

Thanks for that info Ben. I wasn't aware of that page. I added it to the /r/cryonics wiki: https://old.reddit.c...g-organizations

 

Also, I object to the Rudi Hoffman recommendation. In my experience Rudi Hoffman is merely a self-interested salesman. He has some specific products he wants to sell people, to make as much money for himself as possible, and is uninterested in anything beyond that.

 

He is not someone who genuinely cares about getting cryonicists the best insurance policy for them, or even getting every cryonicist a policy.

 

His lack of care may have cost me my life. He was the first person I contacted and he told me I was uninsurable. I gave up on trying for years after that only to find out later it wasn't true. There are multiple insurance companies that were able to insure me, and he was either not knowledgeable or willing.

 

The reality was I wasn't a good fit for what he wanted to sell people.

 

Having observed his behavior in the years since, I am even more so convinced that my assessment of him is accurate. And I find it fairly concerning that so many cryonicists seem to be duped by his salesmanship, and continue to promote him. 

 

 Thanks for the reddit link. I have been known Rudi Hoffman for about 25 years. I have known many people in cryonics who were mercenaries, only interested in career opportunities or getting money from wealthy cryonicists, but I do not believe that Rudi does not have genuine interest in cryonics, aside from his obvious commercial involvement. I have worked closely with him on insurance matters, and know that he has a knowledge of the subject which is far vaster than my own (which is not inconsiderable). Rudi has attempted to further cryonics science in ways unrelated to his commercial interests. I don't know why you had the experience that you did, but I would want to know his side of the story before believing you. He is human, and he may have made a mistake, despite insurance being his field. That said, there is no need for the final paragraphs of https://www.longecit...ticles/cryonics concerning insurance, insofar as the purpose of the page is a review of cryonics organizations

[caliban]

moderation note:

Critique of the Rudi Hoffman recommendation arose from context and has received a rebuttal.

For any further discussions of that topic, please open a separate thread and maybe notify the individual for comment.

 

NB: A future revised version of the infopage may not retain the 'plug' - this would be in no way indicative of anything (!) - simply a reflection of no longer having a single distinctive author.