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I am a final year medical student. Supplements I take. Feedback on my stack appreciated.

supplements stack regimen endogenous

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#1 Thingsvarious

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Posted 12 December 2020 - 10:29 AM



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Here is a list of the supplements I take.

  • EPA/DHA: 2g/d

  • Vitamin D: 20.000iu/w

  • Magnesium: 400mg/prebed

  • Melatonin: 0.25mg/prebed

  • NAC: 2x 500mg/d

  • ALA: 2x 250mg/d

  • CoQ10: 150mg/d

  • TMG: 2x 1g/d

  • b-Alanine: 2x 400mg/d

  • L-Citrulline: 1000mg/d

  • L-Carnitine: 2x 500mg/d

  • Prebiotics: 5g inulin/acacia fiber + 5–10g psyllium/d

  • SAMe: 400mg/d

  • Taurine: 1g/prebed

  • Niacin: 2x 500mg/d

I know there are many antioxidants in my stack. Although I think the dosages are low/reasonable, what do you guys think? I am open for any criticism, feedback, different opinions. Humanity is all about collective learning :)

 

I wrote an article about why exactly I chose these supplements. You can read about my reasoning and the benefits of these supplements in detail here. I also did a ranking of these and a cost-benefit analysis at the end.

 

How much does it cost me? I do take all of them at rather low dosages, which costs me about 400$ per year. I for myself have 35 pillboxes. Every 5 weeks it takes me about 1 hour to prepare all of my drugs&supps for the following 5 weeks. I then swallow all of them with a glass of water, two times per day. This takes no thought and time whatsoever. However, if I had to take all of my supplements individually, it would take forever and suck.

 

Personal opinion (feedback appreciated): All of these molecules are endogenous (i.e. naturally occurring in our bodies) and are required for our cells to function. Thus, by definition, I am supplementing and not “adding”. Almost all of these have real, clinical evidence backing up their usefulness. In fact, as long as money or swallowing pills is not a problem for you, you might as well take all of them. Worst case scenario, we flush some money down the toilet.

 

Is my reasoning incorrect when it comes to supplements? What do you guys think?

 

Usefulness: Some for sure, some maybe, for some it depends.Harm/Risk: None?

Some of them are very important and everyone should take them (magnesium, Omega-3´s, vitamin D), whereas some others might lead to a favorable change in equilibria in a variety of processes (i.e., have a slight benefit). And at the end of the day 1$ is 1$. Depending on our diet and endogenous synthesis, supplementing with some of these might in fact be useless and superfluous, but because they are naturally occurring in our bodies, adding them at reasonable dosages at least does no harm (e.g. screw up drug metabolism, hepatic and renal injury, off-target effects). Given that our dosage is reasonable and our manufacturer reliable.

 

Why I don´t take "non-endogenous" supplements (feedback appreciated): I personally am against non-endogenous ("unnatural") supplements (e.g. ashwagandha, bacopa, etc.). A well-researched supplement (rare) that has been proven by multiple independent research groups (rare) to provide benefits without major adverse effects (rare), given it comes from a reliable manufacturer ensuring dosage and purity and consistency and quality (very, very rare), might indeed have (some of) the benefits a pharmaceutical drug has. For example, ashwaghanda might be one of the few that fits that description given it is from a reliable manufacturer that can ensure dosage, purity, consistency, quality. (I bet over 90% of manufacturer can´t and don´t.)

 

Personally, though I do not like to play roulette when my health is at stake. When it comes to supplements, I try to avoid anything that is not non-endogenous, but rather I opt for stuff for which there is no guessing game as to all of these unknowns (safety, efficacy, off-target effects, drug metabolism, potency, purity, consistency, quality). 
 

 

 



#2 TranscendingSingularity

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 12:04 PM

Why SAMe and TMG? Isn't methylation bad for epigenetic age?



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#3 Thingsvarious

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 12:14 PM

Why SAMe and TMG? Isn't methylation bad for epigenetic age?

Well, DNA methylation is. However, just because more methyl groups are provided does not mean at all that the rate of DNA methylation, which is mostly a byproduct of DNA-repair, increases.



#4 Turnbuckle

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 03:27 PM

Why SAMe and TMG? Isn't methylation bad for epigenetic age?

 

 

Epigenetic aging comes not from methylation per se, but from where those methyl groups are. It's like a sheet of music. The pattern is far more important than the number of notes.


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#5 TranscendingSingularity

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 11:43 AM

Epigenetic aging comes not from methylation per se, but from where those methyl groups are. It's like a sheet of music. The pattern is far more important than the number of notes.

 

Thanks for clarifying. So what is all the hype with epigenetic age about?



#6 Turnbuckle

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 01:42 PM

Thanks for clarifying. So what is all the hype with epigenetic age about?

 

The epigenetic code is what makes multicellular life possible. Humans have 200 cell types. All have the same DNA, but are distinguished by 200 different epigenetic codes that tell cells what unique mix of proteins to make. As the codes become scrambled with age, they start making the wrong mix and become increasingly dysfunctional. Restore the codes and you restore youth.


Edited by Turnbuckle, 23 January 2021 - 01:44 PM.


#7 Thingsvarious

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Posted 04 February 2021 - 07:58 AM

The epigenetic code is what makes multicellular life possible. Humans have 200 cell types. All have the same DNA, but are distinguished by 200 different epigenetic codes that tell cells what unique mix of proteins to make. As the codes become scrambled with age, they start making the wrong mix and become increasingly dysfunctional. Restore the codes and you restore youth.

 

True, thanks for clarifying. However, it is unlikely that an increased supply of methyl groups would result in increased DNA-methylation



#8 Turnbuckle

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Posted 04 February 2021 - 10:32 AM

True, thanks for clarifying. However, it is unlikely that an increased supply of methyl groups would result in increased DNA-methylation

 

 

There is a new field called Nutriepigenomics in which this is being studied. Both hypermethylation and hypomethylation are possible, and aberrant methylation is a hallmark of aging and other diseases.

 

Aging and age-related diseases include defined changes in 5-methylcytosine content and are generally characterized by genome-wide hypomethylation and promoter-specific hypermethylation. These changes in the epigenetic landscape represent potential disease biomarkers and are thought to contribute to age-related pathologies, such as cancer, osteoarthritis, and neurodegeneration.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3482848/

 

 

Mitochondrial DNA can also become methylated, and it's only a few years now that anyone realized this was possible. This will reduce ATP output, which can cause and exacerbate diseases.

 

Distribution and dynamics of mitochondrial DNA methylation in oocytes, embryos and granulosa cells

In a broader context, the major role of mitochondria is to provide ATP, and their functionality is therefore closely related to metabolism. With respect to reproductive biology, mtDNA sequences encoding RNR1, RNR2 and ND4 as well as the D-loop region have been found significantly hypermethylated in porcine oocytes in association with PCOS, indicating that abnormal activation of one-carbon metabolism and hypermethylation of mtDNA may contribute substantially to mitochondrial malfunction and decreased oocyte quality40.

https://www.nature.c...598-019-48422-8

 


Edited by Turnbuckle, 04 February 2021 - 11:11 AM.


#9 Thingsvarious

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Posted 08 February 2021 - 11:10 AM

There is a new field called Nutriepigenomics in which this is being studied. Both hypermethylation and hypomethylation are possible, and aberrant methylation is a hallmark of aging and other diseases.

 

 

Mitochondrial DNA can also become methylated, and it's only a few years now that anyone realized this was possible. This will reduce ATP output, which can cause and exacerbate diseases.

Thanks for sharing! Very interesting.



#10 TranscendingSingularity

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 01:58 PM

There is a new field called Nutriepigenomics in which this is being studied. Both hypermethylation and hypomethylation are possible, and aberrant methylation is a hallmark of aging and other diseases.

 

 

Mitochondrial DNA can also become methylated, and it's only a few years now that anyone realized this was possible. This will reduce ATP output, which can cause and exacerbate diseases.

 

I now found the time to read about this in more detail, thanks. What are some biomarkers one could use to accurately test methylation? Any good way to quantify it?



#11 Thingsvarious

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Posted 14 March 2021 - 04:15 AM

I now found the time to read about this in more detail, thanks. What are some biomarkers one could use to accurately test methylation? Any good way to quantify it?

I don´t think we are anywhere near to fully understand methylation status. It is similar to the microbiome: lots of research but not much clear-cut actionable stuff we can do



#12 TranscendingSingularity

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 12:45 PM

I now found the time to read about this in more detail, thanks. What are some biomarkers one could use to accurately test methylation? Any good way to quantify it?

 

To note: I recently found out that in quite a lot of trials in rodents, methionine consistently reduces lifespan. It appears that there might be reasons to avoid increasing methylation in e.g. diet.



#13 Thingsvarious

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Posted Yesterday, 04:50 AM

To note: I recently found out that in quite a lot of trials in rodents, methionine consistently reduces lifespan. It appears that there might be reasons to avoid increasing methylation in e.g. diet.

The reason methionine reduces lifespan is because it is an activator of the mTOR-complex. This is the whole point behind BCAAs



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#14 Castiel

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Posted Yesterday, 01:14 PM

 

 

  • EPA/DHA: 2g/d

  • Vitamin D: 20.000iu/w

20,000 i vitamin D.  Oh just noticed, the w, so it's once a week.

 

I think collagen is a good supplement, as it is very rich in glycine which helps clear methionine from the body, mimicking a lower methionine diet.

 

As for resveratrol not only has it increased the lifespan of yeast, worms, flies, short lived fish, obese mice, mice with senescence accelerated mutations, mice with several mitochondrial defect mutations, but in some studies it has also increased the lifespan of normal mice too.

 

Resveratrol has also been shown to reverse near senescence from actual human cells, doubling telomere length and allowing the cells to look and behave as if they were young cells again.

 

 

 

Resveratrol In Red Wine Might Prevent Weakening of Astronauts’ Muscles https://www.medicald...-muscles-439205
Research published in the journal BMC Complementary & Alternative Medicine found that resveratrol is helpful in mitigating radiation-induced small intestine injuries, as it counteracts cell apoptosis and other forms of DNA damage. https://radiation.ne...astronauts.html
Resveratrol increases bone mineral density and bone alkaline phosphatase in obese men: a randomized placebo-controlled trial https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/25322274/
Scientists have thought for a while that resveratrol might be able to protect your brain from the effects of Alzheimer’s. A recent study showed that daily doses of resveratrol did slow down the progress of the disease. https://www.webmd.co...heimers-disease

 

Resveratrol, a phytoalexin found in grapes and other food products, was purified and shown to have cancer chemopreventive activity in assays representing three major stages of carcinogenesis. Resveratrol was found to act as an antioxidant and antimutagen and to induce phase II drug-metabolizing enzymes (anti-initiation activity); it mediated anti-inflammatory effects and inhibited cyclooxygenase and hydroperoxidase functions (antipromotion activity); and it induced human promyelocytic leukemia cell differentiation (antiprogression activity). https://pubmed.ncbi....ih.gov/8985016/
"Surprisingly, resveratrol opposed 947 (92%) of age-related changes in gene expression, and 522 of these represented highly significant differences in expression between the old control and old resveratrol groups (P≤0.01). Thus, resveratrol at doses that can be readily achieved through dietary supplementation in humans is as effective as CR in opposing the majority of age-related transcriptional alterations in the aging heart. Because the collection of such alterations in gene expression is a biomarker of aging, our results imply that similar to CR, middle-age onset resveratrol supplementation at low doses is likely a robust intervention in the retardation of cardiac aging." https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2386967/
 
Some mice experiments failed to produce life extension, as have some experiments. But as Sinclair commented exposing resveratrol to light inactivates it, if the resveratrol was given in water exposed to light, the experiment would fail, as would improper dosing.

That said alot of resveratrol is from japanese knotweed which has significant emodin content, emodin is said to be detrimental to telomere integrity and also is a laxative, high purity seems a must in resveratrol supplements.

 

 

I think astaxanthin from algae is also a promising compound.    There are many well known brands with algae facilities, that would seem to actually produce the ingredient from algae and deliver it to you.     If you know about the connection between membrane lipid peroxidation and aging, and how resistance to peroxidation can explain differences in lifespan with similar metabolic rates, this compound looks very promising.   It has also been shown to activate several longevity genes, iirc.

 

Will add that while not 100% convinced of high dose vitamin c, the things I've read so far make it sound as another very promising supplement.


Edited by Castiel, Yesterday, 01:23 PM.






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