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we're being pharmed --welcome to life in a dystopian scifi

coronavirus

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#1 xEva

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 01:20 AM


Be very scared. From yesterday:

Sen. Ron Johnson moderates a panel discussion, COVID-19: A Second Opinion.

 

It's over 5h long but please catch the last hour+ starting at about 4:24 or so.

https://rumble.com/v...nd-opinion.html

 

Never thought I'd live in a dystopian scifi this bad. It beats USSR. This is far more sinister. Human life, or rather health on which it depends, has become a profit generating commodity. 


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#2 geo12the

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 04:04 AM

I do think we are living in a dystopian Scifi story. But for different reasons: Because so many people belong to the silly Qanaon cult. Even here in this forum.  Because there are forces actively trying to divide Americans into different teams and so many folks actively line up to be on those teams.  Because we had a former president who lost but can't accept that he lost and has convinced his followers to believe the big lie. Because people don't think anymore, they allow the Tucker Carlson's of the world to think for them.  The pandemic is winding down. Most Americans have been vaxxed and guess what? The sky is not falling! Regardless what Ron Johnson says in his panel, the sky is not falling. Reagrdless of the fear mongering from the far-right wing media the sky is not falling. Yes xEva we are definitely living in dystopia, but not for the reasons you think. we are in dystopia because people like you are gullible and willing to believe lies and distortions of reality.    


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#3 Dorian Grey

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 07:36 AM

The sky is not falling, but we're still going to need a med everyone can have in their medicine cabinet in case they fall ill. 

 

Paxlovid?  Not bloody likely.  It will be interesting to see just how many can obtain this drug within the 3-5 day window.  

 

HCQ can be produced by the ton for pennies per dose.  Enough for everyone. 

 

It's already worked for me.  The wife brought home the 'cron from work around New Years. 

 

We took HCQ, and felt so good we couldn't wait to get out of the house.  

 

Done with COVID...  Jabbed, boosted, infected and recovered.  

 

Can I take my mask off now?  


Edited by Dorian Grey, 26 January 2022 - 07:46 AM.

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#4 johnhemming

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 08:04 AM

There have always been problems with people believing the first thing they are told and not testing evidence and considering whether they need to change their minds.  That is exacerbated by the attempts to silence dissenting voices.  That builds up paranoia.

 

It happens that I think I had the original Covid in April 2020, additionally I had two vaccinations and a booster and also now I have Covid (probably Omicron).  I don't regret having the vaccinations and am not surprised that I have been infected by what is substantially a different virus.  I would not say it is as bad as a bad cold and I was hoping it would be gone today, but it isn't.

 

The debate is a mess, but we should be willing to have a debate based upon evidence not hectoring and abuse.  To me a really sad aspect of Covid is the damage to scientific discussion.


Edited by johnhemming, 26 January 2022 - 08:05 AM.

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#5 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 01:51 PM

I do think we are living in a dystopian Scifi story. But for different reasons: Because so many people belong to the silly Qanaon cult. Even here in this forum.

 
 
You have a lot of people very skeptical of what the government is saying about this pandemic - and can you really blame them? They have been lied to from the get go.
 
Let's start with the minor lies - Fauci: "Masks don't work", "Everybody should wear a mask", "Wear two masks".
 
Fauci again: "We just need 15 days to bend the curve" he said two years ago.
 
The more major lies revealed from various FOIA document releases: All the virologists in Fauci's circle telling him that the virus looks unnatural/engineered. Yet two days later these same people release a article in Nature saying the virus looks like it naturally jumped from bats into man. Then Dr. Fauci proceeds to ridicule anyone that even suggests that the virus came from WIV as a xenophobic kook. (See: The origin of COVID: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan? and How COVID-19’s origins were obscured, by the East and the West).
 
I think the number of people that believe the Qanon nonsense is very small. However, the number of people that believe they've been lied to and can't trust the government are vastly more. And that belief is entirely supported by the evidence. You don't get to lie to people and then complain that you aren't implicitly trusted. If people don't trust the government about covid, that's entirely the government's fault at this point.

 

 


Edited by Daniel Cooper, 26 January 2022 - 01:52 PM.

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#6 johnhemming

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 02:07 PM

Daniel as right in that governments have been saying things that are not supported by evidence, but also people have not always bothered about evidence.  Too many people decide on their conclusions and then look for evidence to fit those conclusions.

 

Nuanced arguments also don't really find their way through the media, but it is the nuanced arguments that are true.


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#7 DanCG

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 02:40 PM

I do think we are living in a dystopian Scifi story. But for different reasons: Because so many people belong to the silly Qanaon cult. Even here in this forum. .... we are in dystopia because people like you are gullible and willing to believe lies and distortions of reality.    

Stop trying to change the subject. Nobody here is advocating Qanon and nobody wants to talk about it, or the past election.

Did you actually listen to the testimony of Dr. Malone in the panel led by Sen. Johnson? Do you think you know more about the subject of vaccines than he does? Listen to the testimony of the nurse near the very end. Are you sure she is lying or distorting the truth? I can just picture you closing your eyes and plugging your ears saying, “I can’t hear you!”


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#8 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 02:58 PM

Daniel as right in that governments have been saying things that are not supported by evidence, but also people have not always bothered about evidence.  Too many people decide on their conclusions and then look for evidence to fit those conclusions.

 

Nuanced arguments also don't really find their way through the media, but it is the nuanced arguments that are true.

 

Of course some people have taken the fact that the government has repeatedly been less that forthright about covid in numerous aspects from it's origins to the effectiveness of various mitigation strategies and run off in irrational directions. In any large number of people you can count on a certain number of them being irrational.

 

But the government has fueled this impulse with their repeated lies and prevarications. And then been absolutely incensed (you can see it in Fauci's tone and demeanor) that people don't hang on their every word like Moses bringing the tablets down from the mountain. 

 

 You don't get to have it both ways. You can't lie to people and then expect them to accept your word as gospel. Your trustworthiness is a limited commodity. You use it up and there's no easy way to get more.


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#9 geo12the

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 05:06 PM

 
 
You have a lot of people very skeptical of what the government is saying about this pandemic - and can you really blame them? They have been lied to from the get go.
 
Let's start with the minor lies - Fauci: "Masks don't work", "Everybody should wear a mask", "Wear two masks".
 
Fauci again: "We just need 15 days to bend the curve" he said two years ago.
 
The more major lies revealed from various FOIA document releases: All the virologists in Fauci's circle telling him that the virus looks unnatural/engineered. Yet two days later these same people release a article in Nature saying the virus looks like it naturally jumped from bats into man. Then Dr. Fauci proceeds to ridicule anyone that even suggests that the virus came from WIV as a xenophobic kook. (See: The origin of COVID: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan? and How COVID-19’s origins were obscured, by the East and the West).
 
I think the number of people that believe the Qanon nonsense is very small. However, the number of people that believe they've been lied to and can't trust the government are vastly more. And that belief is entirely supported by the evidence. You don't get to lie to people and then complain that you aren't implicitly trusted. If people don't trust the government about covid, that's entirely the government's fault at this point.

 

Stop trying to change the subject. Nobody here is advocating Qanon and nobody wants to talk about it, or the past election.

Did you actually listen to the testimony of Dr. Malone in the panel led by Sen. Johnson? Do you think you know more about the subject of vaccines than he does? Listen to the testimony of the nurse near the very end. Are you sure she is lying or distorting the truth? I can just picture you closing your eyes and plugging your ears saying, “I can’t hear you!”

 

"Stop trying to change the subject. Nobody here is advocating Qanon and nobody wants to talk about it, or the past election."

 

I am a scientist, the most important thing for me is truth and facts. I am also NOT a political partisan (Independent here, argue with both sides and like to play Devil's advocate) BUT if you don't think the pandemic has been actively politicized by the far-right wing media ecosystem to anger and energize it's base and keep them in line then you are not paying attention. Why does that matter here on this forum? Because you've got folks here who, everything they post, is from that far-right media ecosystem (Epoch times, Rumble, Bannon, Zero-hedge etc) or from fringe doctors. While the pandemic is coming to an end, these media ecosystems will continue to rile up and manipulate their warriors. That truly is dystopian.

 

"However, the number of people that believe they've been lied to and can't trust the government are vastly more. And that belief is entirely supported by the evidence. You don't get to lie to people and then complain that you aren't implicitly trusted. If people don't trust the government about covid, that's entirely the government's fault at this point."

 

There are many layers here. Let's take "masks don't work" "wear masks". At the beginning of the pandemic we didn't know how contagious this this thing was. At one time folks were even scared to touch their mail. As we learn more it's normal that the advice given would change. Origin of the pandemic is controversial even among virologists. Truth is we don't know. 

 

"Did you actually listen to the testimony of Dr. Malone in the panel led by Sen. Johnson? Do you think you know more about the subject of vaccines than he does? "

 

I listened to him on Rogan's podcast very recently. I found him to be very well spoken and sure in his opinions but ultimately a charlatan. To give just one example of why I think that: He was adamant that it's not possible for someone to get COVID twice (My nephew got it 3 times).  Even when pressed on this by Rogan he insisted people can't get COVID twice. I've been in science long enough to spot a fraud. The best ones weave fact and fiction, truth and lies. To me having a doctor say factually incorrect things and insist they are true is worse than the confusing the "masks don't work" "wear masks" flip-flop. 

 

"Listen to the testimony of the nurse near the very end. Are you sure she is lying or distorting the truth? "

 

I have no idea if she is lying or distorting the truth. Remdesivir is something they tried. It didn't work as well as they had hoped. The truth is there are few anti-virals that work. My brother is a pulmonologist in NY and has treated thousands of patients. Talking to him, he was hopeful at first that HCQ might work but then told me "It doesn't really work" and that Steroids worked better, he now says monoclonals are best. The nurse is a sympathetic and telegenic figure, and I don't doubt the sadness she felt, but that does not mean she holds the answers or gives an accurate view of reality.

 

The pandemic is coming to an end. Was the response to the pandemic perfect? Of course not. But I assume government response will not be perfect. At the end of the day vaccines have saved countless lives AND prevented countless misery. No amount of denial by the crazy far-right wing media cesspool and their fanatical sheep here will change that fact.    


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#10 Mind

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 06:05 PM

I do think we are living in a dystopian Scifi story. But for different reasons: Because so many people belong to the silly Qanaon cult. Even here in this forum.  Because there are forces actively trying to divide Americans into different teams and so many folks actively line up to be on those teams.  Because we had a former president who lost but can't accept that he lost and has convinced his followers to believe the big lie. Because people don't think anymore, they allow the Tucker Carlson's of the world to think for them.  The pandemic is winding down. Most Americans have been vaxxed and guess what? The sky is not falling! Regardless what Ron Johnson says in his panel, the sky is not falling. Reagrdless of the fear mongering from the far-right wing media the sky is not falling. Yes xEva we are definitely living in dystopia, but not for the reasons you think. we are in dystopia because people like you are gullible and willing to believe lies and distortions of reality.    

 

What?! Qanon? Are you sure you are commenting in the correct forum?

 

The whistleblowers, doctors, and researchers are raising important issues and are using real data or what they have experienced in the hospital. The CDC, FDA, NIH, are plugging their ears and saying "I can't hear you".

 

Fauci lied about lockdowns as well. According to Peter Navarro, Fauci told him directly that he studied travel restrictions many times and travel restrictions don't work as a pandemic response. Fauci later went on to become the leading cheerleader for travel restrictions.

 

 

 

“I’ve studied travel restrictions many, many times and [they] don’t work,” said Fauci.

 

I am unsure why people trust the health bureaucrats anymore (without going through their data with a fine tooth comb).


Edited by Mind, 26 January 2022 - 06:20 PM.

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#11 Mind

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 06:22 PM

National media outlets (US and elsewhere) have also been pumping out fear and false information throughout the last two years, as is the case here:

 

ITV warned about spreading mis-information about COVID deaths.


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#12 xEva

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 10:09 PM

 Yes xEva we are definitely living in dystopia, but not for the reasons you think. we are in dystopia because people like you are gullible and willing to believe lies and distortions of reality.    

 

 

you think? -- oh thank God!  You can't imagine what a relieve it is to be so reassured. Phew!

 

You know what? On behalf of the community I'd like to challenge you to produce 10 posts in a row without invoking Tucker Carlson or Trump or Fox or that Q thing. Also, please spare us from your simplistic assumptions on our behalf. Deal?   :)


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#13 xEva

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 02:01 AM

Guys, did all of you actually listened to the last hour of the rumble video? 

This thread is not about covid policy, even though covid was what brought the issue to the fore. And it's definitely not about masks or Fauci. I found the testimonies of doctors and nurses profoundly unsettling. Now I'm really scared to end up in the hospital -- for whatever reason. Aren't you? 

 

I saw the first signs years ago, way before covid, and, at the time, posted an anecdote in one of the threads on inequities of health insurance. It seems that to have no insurance at all or to have a 'too good' one is equally perilous.

 

About a 'too good insurance', my anecdote was about a well-to-do man in his 50s who ended up in a hospital with suspicion of heart attack. He had a 'vey good' insurance, which readily covered an expensive and risky exploratory procedure -- a kind, I was told by a friend-medic, which medicare or an HMO would deny outright as superfluous. The man died on the table. They killed him only coz 'they wanted to make sure it was not a heart issue after all' after they diagnosed him with heartburn. If only he had an average insurance! True story. 

 

Now what the witnesses were saying about the incentives for covid diagnoses or use of certain medications and denial of others, vaccine injuries coverup, prosecution of the doctors, censorship and finally complete denial of patients' rights -- that's some scary shit! And again, it's not about covid per se. It's been gathering momentum for a while and just as Dr Kory testified, it had begun with progression of corporate health management with insistence on 'standard of care'.

 

thoughts?



#14 Dorian Grey

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 07:36 AM

I worked in healthcare for 35 years, and the changes I have seen have shaken my faith in medicine to the core.  

 

Doctors used to run the show...  Some were good; others mediocre, but with the help of the entire team, we helped our patients.  

 

Now, it's all about "standardized protocols".  Doctors have been reduced to robots, going through the motions dictated by management, insurance, and their group formulary.  Nurses have stopped caring, and just want to make it through their 12 hour shifts.  

 

Narcotics are no longer prescribed for pain...  Even acute pain.  Here, have some Tramadol!  Doesn't work all that well, but at least it's not a narcotic.  Narcotics are bad, 'm-kay?  

 

The near simultaneous demonization of hydroxychloroquine and exaltation of remdesivir back in 2020 was the final nail in the coffin for me.  

 

I now get my meds from overseas pharmacies and treat myself.  

 

Avoid American Medicine if you can!  


Edited by Dorian Grey, 27 January 2022 - 07:39 AM.

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#15 johnhemming

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 07:46 AM

The overseas pharmacies thing is interesting.  It appears that the payment cards don't want to provide payment services to international pharmacies. I bought some Dedrogyl from an international pharmacy.  Dedrogyl is 25OHD the second metabolite of vitamin D.  You can take it to increase your Vitamin D levels without having a lot of cholecalciferol hanging around.  I would argue it is less dangerous than cholecalciferol itself.  The UK where we live the NHS has suffered greatly from the demands from Covid.  In any event I find it takes a lot of time to try to access health care and protocols are used in lots of places - to some extent with good reason.  However, where you are studying an issue in detail there should be some discretion.

 

The big danger with Covid is the approach which makes science more of a cultish religion where people participate in different sects and demonise those who support different viewpoints as heretics.

 

 


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#16 xEva

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 04:44 PM

The overseas pharmacies thing is interesting.  It appears that the payment cards don't want to provide payment services to international pharmacies.

 

About a decade ago Big Pharma came up with 'online pharmacies verification service' alleging that most overseas pharmacies are illegal businesses. Any payment provider that offers financial services to overseas online pharmacies is at risk of being accused of "facilitating international crime". But I thought it applied to the US only.

Since then they turned their attention to UPS and FedEx. Luckily they can't afford to open all the packages (yet) and so most shipments get through, for now.



#17 johnhemming

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 05:11 PM

I looked at goldpharma.com again today (where I bought the 25OHD) and they seem to have more payment options now.  I am thinking of trying Metformin to replace my Berberine.



#18 Dorian Grey

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 06:56 PM

I had to learn bitcoin to use aipctshop.  Quite an adventure for an old duffer like me, but so satisfying when my magic pills arrived.  

 

CoinMe machines all over town (supermarkets & WalMart).  The online account needs a photo ID to set up, so make sure you have a working account before you buy your bitcoin at CoinMe kiosk. 

 

Had to use the "manual bitcoin payment" option to make my purchase, but the guys at aipctshop were very helpful.  

 

Have gotten 3 different shipments from them without problem.  Last I heard they were shipping from Taiwan to avoid USPS scrutiny of of packages from India.  My first two shipments were from India, the last from Taiwan.  


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#19 Mind

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 06:59 PM

I worked in healthcare for 35 years, and the changes I have seen have shaken my faith in medicine to the core.  

 

Doctors used to run the show...  Some were good; others mediocre, but with the help of the entire team, we helped our patients.  

 

Now, it's all about "standardized protocols".  Doctors have been reduced to robots, going through the motions dictated by management, insurance, and their group formulary.  Nurses have stopped caring, and just want to make it through their 12 hour shifts.  

 

Narcotics are no longer prescribed for pain...  Even acute pain.  Here, have some Tramadol!  Doesn't work all that well, but at least it's not a narcotic.  Narcotics are bad, 'm-kay?  

 

The near simultaneous demonization of hydroxychloroquine and exaltation of remdesivir back in 2020 was the final nail in the coffin for me.  

 

I now get my meds from overseas pharmacies and treat myself.  

 

Avoid American Medicine if you can!  

 

I agree. Doctors are losing the battle to help patients, unless the treatments are approved by the corporate lawyers and accountants that run major hospital chains. The corporate managers rely on "official guidance", which is often developed by big pharma.

 

Personal story: I had higher cholesterol levels measured in the last couple of years. My doctor immediately told me to go on statins. I resisted and lowered my cholesterol with small dietary changes and red yeast rice. He later confided in me that he would "get bad marks" from the hospital managers if his patients didn't follow through on his recommendation to take the "official/sanctioned" treatment - which is of course a big pharma drug. I felt bad for him. He is under pressure to push official/approved treatments for everyone instead of developing individualized treatments/therapies for each patient.


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#20 Dorian Grey

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 10:28 PM

I got an infected epididymis that spread to my prostate a few years back.  Was horrified to learn the only "approved" medications for prostatitis were fluoroquinolones & sulfa, but google pointed me to an old generic, fosfomycin that doctors were using for antibiotic resistant prostatitis in Europe.  

 

Fosfomycin's claim to fame is that it is so safe, it is the drug of choice for urinary tract infections in pregnant women.  Side effects next to none, and you can wash it down with gin if you like.  

 

Problem was, prescribing guidelines for UTI were a single 3gr dose, & the protocol for prostatitis was 3gr every other day for a month.  A urologist I worked with said he'd be happy to let me try the fosfo, but he couldn't prescribe dosing as frequent as called for in the prostatitis protocol.  Said his computer would flag him & he would be in deep doo-doo with the medical director of his group.  

 

I got my scrip, & had to go to Mexico to get my drug.  This was the only way I could obtain 15 doses.  Fosfo worked a treat, & I was back in action in 30 days, but what an ordeal.  Had to go to a third world country for proper treatment.  


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#21 DanCG

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 02:34 AM

 

Now, it's all about "standardized protocols".  Doctors have been reduced to robots, going through the motions dictated by management, insurance, and their group formulary. 

 

He later confided in me that he would "get bad marks" from the hospital managers if his patients didn't follow through on his recommendation to take the "official/sanctioned" treatment - which is of course a big pharma drug. I felt bad for him. He is under pressure to push official/approved treatments for everyone instead of developing individualized treatments/therapies for each patient.

 

 

 

 

Problem was, prescribing guidelines for UTI were a single 3gr dose, & the protocol for prostatitis was 3gr every other day for a month.  A urologist I worked with said he'd be happy to let me try the fosfo, but he couldn't prescribe dosing as frequent as called for in the prostatitis protocol.  Said his computer would flag him & he would be in deep doo-doo with the medical director of his group.  

 

 

There is another problem that goes along with this. Many doctors won’t think independently because THEY DON’T WANT TO. To do so would go against their personalities. Our system of medical education selects for rule-abiding followers.

I have taught pre-med students. They are generally very bright, but their lack of curiosity drove me nuts. Our system of medical education and selection discourages curiosity. Competition for admission into med schools is high, and the students need to have straight A’s. So I could be lecturing on something I chose because it is interesting and all the pre-med wants to know is “will this be on the test?” The result is a lot of physicians who don’t really like science for its own sake, never think or read about basic science, and they never even hear of any new drug or its mechanism of action until after the clinical trials are done and the drug company representative shows up in their office. In medical practice, the “test” is knowing what is approved, they don’t want to know or think about anything else.

This system works fine when dealing with conditions for which standard treatments that work are well known. But it does not work when the patient shows up with something new. This is how, early in the pandemic, we had medical professionals making the illogical criticism that proposed treatments were unproven when we are talking about a brand new disease.


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#22 johnhemming

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 06:36 AM

 Many doctors won’t think independently because THEY DON’T WANT TO. To do so would go against their personalities. 

 

Because I live in the UK I know UK law better than that of other countries.   However, I think the legal principles are similar at least in Common Law based jurisdictions.

 

There is a legal test relating to the law of Negligence called the Bolam Test

 

https://en.wikipedia...ement_Committee

 

The principle is that if a doctor does something that other doctors would say is a reasonable thing to do then even if things go wrong they are not held liable for damage in law.  However, if they go out on a limb then they can be held responsible for any negative consequences.  Hence their liability insurance prevents doing things that are creative.  

 

Experimental medicine is a different thing, but I am not sure exactly how that can operate and it would vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.


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#23 syr_

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Posted 01 February 2022 - 10:52 PM

Personal story: I had higher cholesterol levels measured in the last couple of years. My doctor immediately told me to go on statins. I resisted and lowered my cholesterol with small dietary changes and red yeast rice. 

monacolin K is chemically equivalent to Lovostatin, it went into unregulated supplements through a lucky timing loophole. If Big Pharma could block it, they would have.

I also take it but trying to go lower (5mg instead of 10/d) and use other nutraceuticals. My chol is genetic unfortunately.



#24 xEva

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Posted 11 February 2022 - 12:33 AM

A quote from a random user discussion on the theme:

 

 

I am to the point of avoiding any doctor for all reasons. I would rather die at home with dignity than become a source of government income for hospitals and tortured to death.

 

Sad, isn't it?


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#25 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 11 February 2022 - 03:38 PM

A quote from a random user discussion on the theme:

 

 

I am to the point of avoiding any doctor for all reasons. I would rather die at home with dignity than become a source of government income for hospitals and tortured to death.

 

Sad, isn't it?

 

Actually my doctor is a pretty nice guy. He's not the main problem, though some doctors are definitely a problem.

 

The FDA on the other hand has been run in the interest of big pharmaceutical company for decades now. It's not exactly a conspiracy. It's not like the FDA brass get in some back room and say "How can we screw the patients today?". I'm sure they think they are working in the public interest. But humans are really great at rationalizing behavior that benefits them as benefiting society at large.

 

The time (about a decade these days) and expense (north of $2B USD last time I checked) it takes to bring a drug to market are nothing but entry barriers that keep small nimble innovators out to protect the entrenched incumbent drug companies. That time and money isn't actually making anything any safer, and it sure as hell isn't making anything cheaper. All it does is protect the big company's drug pipeline and ensure that if some small company does happen to build a better mouse trap they are ultimately going to have to sell it to a big pharma company because they can't spend a few billion dollars while waiting a decade for a return on investment. Most people don't understand it, but this slow extremely expensive drug approval process is exactly the process the incumbent players want.

 

You look at the personnel shuttling back and forth between the FDA and the big pharma companies and it's easy to see that regulatory capture has occurred and these companies are getting exactly the regulation they desire.


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#26 Mind

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Posted 11 February 2022 - 05:18 PM

Actually my doctor is a pretty nice guy. He's not the main problem, though some doctors are definitely a problem.

 

The FDA on the other hand has been run in the interest of big pharmaceutical company for decades now. It's not exactly a conspiracy. It's not like the FDA brass get in some back room and say "How can we screw the patients today?". I'm sure they think they are working in the public interest. But humans are really great at rationalizing behavior that benefits them as benefiting society at large.

 

The time (about a decade these days) and expense (north of $2B USD last time I checked) it takes to bring a drug to market are nothing but entry barriers that keep small nimble innovators out to protect the entrenched incumbent drug companies. That time and money isn't actually making anything any safer, and it sure as hell isn't making anything cheaper. All it does is protect the big company's drug pipeline and ensure that if some small company does happen to build a better mouse trap they are ultimately going to have to sell it to a big pharma company because they can't spend a few billion dollars while waiting a decade for a return on investment. Most people don't understand it, but this slow extremely expensive drug approval process is exactly the process the incumbent players want.

 

You look at the personnel shuttling back and forth between the FDA and the big pharma companies and it's easy to see that regulatory capture has occurred and these companies are getting exactly the regulation they desire.

 

If it isn't corruption (bribery and such), then it is definitely Regulatory Capture, by big pharma. The system is screwed up. The FDA won't allow anyone to try risky revolutionary treatments, but then they also make it extremely expensive to produce marginally effective big pharma drugs with many negative side effects.


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#27 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 11 February 2022 - 07:22 PM

If it isn't corruption (bribery and such), then it is definitely Regulatory Capture, by big pharma. The system is screwed up. The FDA won't allow anyone to try risky revolutionary treatments, but then they also make it extremely expensive to produce marginally effective big pharma drugs with many negative side effects.

 

Oh, I wouldn't discount the possibility of money changing hands under the table. But if you're patient and do your stint at the FDA and give Pfizer or GSK the rulings they want you can shift over to a nice high paid executive position at one of those after maybe a decade. It's sort of out in the open "post hoc bribery".

 

It's really bad. Pharma execs might today lay awake at night with the worry that some little company consisting of four guys just out of grad school might whip up a gene therapy that reverses cardiovascular disease and makes their next generation statin they've spent a couple of hundred million on completely irrelevant and totally kill any future recurring revenue stream (because gene therapy is potentially "one and done") off of CVD.  But, they sleep soundly at night in the knowledge that they've constructed a regulatory framework that makes something like that almost impossible.


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#28 Mind

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Posted 16 February 2022 - 10:40 PM

"Money changing hands". Funny you mentioned that just a couple days ago.

 

Project Veritas exposes an FDA executive, talking about the mRNA shots being a "recurring FOUNTAIN of money" for the FDA and the companies that produce the injections.


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