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Omega Point vs Singularity


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#1 dimasok

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 09:07 PM


Ok, now i'm totally confused.
Wikipedia defines the Omega Point as:

Omega point is reprised by the mathematical physicist Frank J. Tipler to describe a hypothetical cosmological scenario in the far future of the Universe. According to his omega point theory, as the Universe comes to an end in a specific kind of Big Crunch, the computational capacity of the Universe will be accelerating exponentially faster than time runs out. In principle, a simulation run on this Universe-computer can thus continue forever in its own terms, even though the Universe the computer is in lasts only a finite time. The omega point theory assumes that certain cosmological parameters have values that require the universe to eventually contract, and that there will be intelligent civilizations in existence at the appropriate time to exploit the computational capacity of such an environment.

Tipler identifies this asymptotic state of infinite information capacity with God. The implication of this theory for present-day humans is that this ultimate cosmic computer will essentially be able to resurrect ("simulate" might be a more modest verb) everyone who has ever lived, by recreating all possible quantum brain states within the master simulation. This will be manifested as a simulated reality, except without the necessity for physical bodies. From the perspective of the simulated "inhabitant," the Omega Point represents an infinite-duration afterlife, which could take any imaginable form due to its virtual nature.


In addition to that, Transhumanists are mentioned:

Omega point as a technological singularity
Transhumanists argue on the basis of the accelerating technological development inherent in The Law of Accelerating Returns, that within 20-140 years into the future we will arrive at what Vernor Vinge called a technological singularity or "prediction wall" in which humans will be semi-aware components of a computerised social structure of such complexity that no one person or group of persons can understand more than a tiny fraction of the whole. They believe we will soon enter a time in which we must eventually make the transition to a "runaway positive feedback loop" in high-level autonomous machine computation. The result is a technological Omega Point, in which our human tools eventually completely surpass human capacities.[1]


So, if Tippler defines the "Omega Point" as the apex of human evolution, meaning that intelligence's role in the universe is aspiring to infinite information and attaining a godly status (ergo, being capable of creating it's own universes, etc) and since the end of that evolution is designated to be sometime in a billion years, which I interpret as a "far future of the universe"(supposedly, after a Type IV or V civilization is in place. Hell, even a Type III civilization is predicated to be in place only by something like the year 5000-7000), then how come the Technological Singularity will be here by 2040?

Could someone please explain to me what the hell is going on ;)

#2 bgwowk

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 09:13 PM

The Omega Point and Singularity are completely different concepts. It is incorrect to equate possible near-term prediction walls (Singularity) with the Omega Point, which is an even more speculative idea about what life might do in the far, far, faaaar future of the universe.

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#3 RighteousReason

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 09:27 PM

There are many different definitions of the so-called "Singularity" depending on who you ask. People can get their definitions from many different idea-spaces...

Kurzweil's books, Tipler's Omega Point, McKenna's timewave, Vinge's science fiction, and a thousand other mixed and made-up varieties.

All of the definitions have a LITTLE bit in common, but the vast majority of ideas relating to this so-called Singularity are either (1) irrelevant, (2) invalid or astronomically improbable, or (3) fantasy

If you want to know the important, realistic ideas regarding the Singularity, I suggest:

www.singinst.org
http://www.sl4.org/archive
http://www.accelerat...re.com/michael/

#4 dimasok

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 09:30 PM

Thanks guys!

hankconn
So Tippler's Omega Point, is it irrelevant, astronomically improbable or fantasy? Cause i've read here, on this very forum, that the transhumanist singularity would, in effect, be identical to the Omega Point...

#5 RighteousReason

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 09:54 PM

So Tippler's Omega Point, is it irrelevant, astronomically improbable or fantasy? Cause i've read here, on this very forum, that the transhumanist singularity would, in effect, be identical to the Omega Point...

Tipler crucially predicated his omega point theory on an eventual Big Crunch, now thought to be an unlikely scenario by virtue of a number of recent astronomical observations.



This is a theory about what happens toward the end of the Universe.

Frankly, any theory about the end of the Universe is both improbable and irrelevant in many senses, given that you are attempting to predict events billions of years into the future.

I also completely disagree with any assertion of the form: "The effect of the Singularity will be ... " unless they were basing that statement on mathematical proofs defining causal or probabilistic bounds on the effect in question within the goal system of some recursively self-improving intelligence (even then its still an uncertain prediction).

#6 Mind

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 10:05 PM

Singularity: dramatic/unpredictable near-term tranformations of the human race due to accelerating technology.

Omega Point: Specualtion of what might happen billions of years in the future, once intelligence rules the entire universe.

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#7 dimasok

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 10:25 PM

Hehe. Thanks for the clarification, everyone.
I'm much more willing to buy into the Singularity concept then, cause compared to the Omega Point (which would be nice to be valid also hehe), it is very very plausible. I don't see why many people have reservations or are plainly against it, when i'm even willing to embrace the possibilities of the Omega Point, even though I don't believe i'd live till then... not even close :(




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