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Inmortality doesnt exist (Spanish)


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#1 Anaya

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Posted 10 July 2003 - 06:16 PM


Existe la inmortalidad, es decir el ser humano o cualquier cosa puede ser inmortal:

Pues yo creo que no, por la sencilla razón que la vida es cambio permanente, y eso está contrapuesto a la misma idea de la inmortalidad que necesita ser invariable y fija.

Yo lo creo así, pues algo que cambia deja de ser la misma cosa, se transforma muere x para ser x´, nosotros no somos los mismos que hace un año o un día.

Además si cambiamos, llegara un punto (extremo eso sí) en que ya no podamos cambiar a nada distinto, llegando a un sistema cilico (esta es una forma de semi inmortalidad).

Y si tomamos el modelo actual del universo támpoco tenemos muchas posibilidades:

O el universo se contrae destrozando de una forma irreversible todo lo existente.

O se expande llegando a enfriarse al 0º absoluto (actualmente está a unos 3K) y expandirse sin dejar opción a nada eterno, además el principio de entropía nos impide crear energía sin ayudar a dicho enfriamiento.

Además que lás particulas de lo que todos estámos hechos tienen un periodo de duración, (átomos, neutrones...) pudiendo convertirse en otras, pero irremediablemente llevandonos a una completa destrucción.

Para mi la inmortalidad no es posible. Es más está totalmente enfrentada a la vida.

#2 Bruce Klein

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Posted 10 July 2003 - 06:27 PM

Anaya, we'll move this post to the Spanish Forum soon.

But here's a rough translation.

----
The immortality exists, that is to say the human being or any thing can be immortal:

Therefore I believe not, by the simple reason that the life is permanent change, and that is contrasted to the same idea of the immortality that needs to be invariable and fixed.

I believe it thus, therefore something that changes to stops being the same thing, is transformed x dies to be x´, we are not the same that a year ago or a day.

Besides if we change, a point arrived (extreme that yes) in which no longer we can change to different nothing, arriving at a system cilico (this is a form of semi immortality).

And if we take the present model of the universe támpoco have many possibilities:

Or the universe contracts destroying of an irreversible form all the existing thing.

Or it is expanded coming to be chilled al 0º absolute (at present is to some 3K) and to be expanded without leaving option to eternal nothing, besides the principle of entropía impedes us to create energy without helping to said cooling off.

Besides that lás private of what all estámos done have a period of duration, (atoms, neutrones. ..) being able to be become other, but hopelessly carrying us to a complete destruction.

For my the immortality is not possible. It is more is totally faced to the life.

#3 Lazarus Long

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 12:49 PM

¿Una pregunta gramatical por favor, quizás que en la primera oración es posible que UD quiera usar un interrogativo?

Como:
“¿Existe la inmortalidad? Es decir el ser humano o cualquier cosa pueden ser inmortales:”

Obviamente cambia lo que UD está tratando de decir pero antes de que esté tratando de traducirlo prefiero comunicar contigo porque como está escrito es una tautología.

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#4 Lothar

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Posted 12 July 2003 - 03:33 PM

(I'm sorry, Anaya, but my abilities in Spain are (very) much worse than my abilities in English. But I could give you some translation in german... ;-) )

Your central point, Anaya, that everything in universe is constantly changing was one of the most important arguments why I stood so long away from the concept of physical immortality. But in fact: all' these discussions here are not about 'immortality' in general but about PHYSICAL immortality. Everything changes, that's right, but there are different forms of this change, which effects the form of death too. Physical immortality means in the first place a different form of changing in the human life. Not: the mind is always the same and the body becomes old and dies but: the MIND is developing - or sometimes you can even say: 'dying' - and the body stays the same for a longer period of time than now.

O.k., you could say also this body structure has to change sometime, but if you are really referring to the end of time because of the collapsing or expanding universe and very very far away and abstract things like that, that reminds me of an old funny scene of one of the most famous films by Woody Allen, 'Annie Hall': Little Woody and his Mother are going to the doctor because there is some problem. Little Woody don't want to make his works for school any longer, because he has read 'something': 'THE UNIVERSE EXPANDS!' the small boy explains to the doctor with a very serious face. And if the universe expands nothing in life has meaning any longer so why doing your homework for school!?? 'But BROOKLYN will NEVER expand!' the doctor calms the young boy, 'even in a million of years!'...

Everything in Universe is changing, o.k., but there's no philosophical reason why man's body should exactly end up one cycle of changing in only 120 years instead of - let's say - 240. So my proposal: let's meet again here and let us continue to discuss these existential problems, when we are about 240!? The universe will still exist until then (but I dont't hope you will call me optimistic for this suggestion)...

Greetings from Berlin, Germany!
Lothar
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'I prayed that the days would last...' (MADONNA, La isla bonita)

#5 faolan

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Posted 28 December 2003 - 03:13 AM

wow thats good to good its scary [thumb]

#6 cyberchrist

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Posted 28 December 2003 - 03:36 AM

Existe la inmortalidad, es decir el ser humano o cualquier cosa puede ser inmortal:


Immortality exists, that is to say, a human being or anything else can be immortal.

Pues yo creo que no, por la sencilla razón que la vida es cambio permanente, y eso está contrapuesto a la misma idea de la inmortalidad que necesita ser invariable y fija.


Well, I don't think so, for the simple reason that life is permanent change, and that is against the same idea that immortality needs to be invariable and set in one place.

Yo lo creo así, pues algo que cambia deja de ser la misma cosa, se transforma muere x para ser x´, nosotros no somos los mismos que hace un año o un día.


I believe it like that, for something that changes ceases to be the same thing, it transforms.. 'X' dies to be 'X'. We are not the same person that we were a year ago or a day ago.

Además si cambiamos, llegara un punto (extremo eso sí) en que ya no podamos cambiar a nada distinto, llegando a un sistema cilico (esta es una forma de semi inmortalidad).


Furthermore, if we change, we come to a point (yes, an extreme one) in which we cannot change to anything different, approaching a 'cilico' system (this is a form of semi-immortality).

(No clue what they mean by cilico).

Y si tomamos el modelo actual del universo támpoco tenemos muchas posibilidades:


And if we take the actual model of the Universe, we also don't have many possibilities:

O el universo se contrae destrozando de una forma irreversible todo lo existente.

O se expande llegando a enfriarse al 0º absoluto (actualmente está a unos 3K) y expandirse sin dejar opción a nada eterno, además el principio de entropía nos impide crear energía sin ayudar a dicho enfriamiento.


Either the Universe contracts and irreversibly destroys everything that exists.

Or it expands and freezes itself at absolute zero (it's actually at some 3K degrees) and it expands without leaving the option for anything eternal, and either way the principals of entropy stops us from creating energy without helping out that cold.

Además que lás particulas de lo que todos estámos hechos tienen un periodo de duración, (átomos, neutrones...) pudiendo convertirse en otras, pero irremediablemente llevandonos a una completa destrucción.


Furthermore, the particles that makes up all of us have a period of duration (atoms, neutrons..), and can convert themselves into other particles, but irreversibly taking us into a complete destruction.

Para mi la inmortalidad no es posible. Es más está totalmente enfrentada a la vida.


To me, immortality is not possible. What's more, it is totally opposed to life itself.

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#7 Bruce Klein

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Posted 28 December 2003 - 08:37 AM

CyberChrist, Thank You~! [thumb]

Topic has now been moved to 'Hispanica' forums.




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