• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans


Adverts help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.


Photo
- - - - -

The Fight Club philosophy


  • Please log in to reply
41 replies to this topic

#1 Aegist

  • Guest Shane
  • 1,416 posts
  • 0
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 29 January 2007 - 12:24 AM


Fight Club is my favourite movie of all time, and it is simply because of the philosophy in it. The philosophy is not a philosophy that I ascribe to, it is more of a 'grounding' philosophy, a philosophical perspective which needs to be understood so as to keep your own life in perspective.

The philosophy is certainly very grounded in a short lifespan, but I think that it could gain even more power when applied to immortality, it will be the solution to the best counter-immortality argument: "death imposes a limit which motivates you into action, without death, we are less motivated to acheive anything worthwhile." I think this is the most true argument against immortality, I don't think it is good enough to warrant stopping our lusting after immortality, but it is true nonetheless.

What the fight club philosophy says is that 'life' is not special, life is not important, if you die, no one cares. The only think that matters is what you achieve, and your personal introspective realisation of experience. You are not defined by your lifestyle, your posessions, or your status, everything is meaningless, and i think it is the perfect counter-view point to immortality, which immortalists need to understand so that they can gain a solid foundational perspective on what an immortal life needs to be about.



If you do not know what 'the fight club philosophy' is, then aside from watching the movie 3 or more times (highly recommended) simply watching this youtube clip will help a lot:

and the lyrics to that song are allf rom the movie. The lyrics are the point: http://domspe.org/fi..._fightclub.html

[quote]
this is your life
good to the last drop,
doesn't get any better than this
this is your life, and it's ending
one minute at a time
this isn't a seminar
and this isn't a weekend retreat
where you are now
you can't even imagine
what the bottom will be like

only after disaster
can we be resurrected
it's only after you've lost
everything that you're
free to do anything

nothing is static,
everything is appalling (evolving),
everything is
falling apart

you are not a beautiful and unique snowflake
you are the same decaying
organic matter as everything else
we are all a part of the same compost heap
we are the all-singing,
all-dancing crap of the world
you are not your bank account,
you are not the clothes you wear
you are not the contents of your wallet
you are not your bowel cancer
you are not your grande latte
you are not the car you drive
you are not your fucking khakis

you have to give up

you have to realise that someday you will die,
until you know that you are useless
i say let me never be complete
i say may i never be content
i say deliver me from swedish furniture
i say deliver me from clever art
i say deliver me from clear skin and perfect teeth
i say you have to give up
i say evolve, and let the chips
fall where they may
[/quote]

Other relevent movie quotes:
[quote]
Narrator: [Tyler steers the car into the opposite lane and accelerates] What are you doing?
Tyler Durden: Guys, what would you wish you'd done before you died?
Steph: Paint a self-portrait.
The Mechanic: Build a house.
Tyler Durden: [to Narrator] And you?
Narrator: I don't know. Turn the wheel now, come on!
Tyler Durden: You have to know the answer to this question! If you died right now, how would you feel about your life?
Narrator: I don't know, I wouldn't feel anything good about my life, is that what you want to hear me say? Fine. Come on!
Tyler Durden: Not good enough. [/quote]

[quote]Tyler Durden: You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.
[/quote]

[quote]Narrator: On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
[/quote]

[quote]Tyler Durden: The things you own end up owning you. [/quote]

[quote]Narrator: After fighting, everything else in your life got the volume turned down.
[/quote]
[quote]Tyler Durden: Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing. [/quote]
[quote]Narrator: And then, something happened. I let go. Lost in oblivion. Dark and silent and complete. I found freedom. Losing all hope was freedom. [/quote]

[quote][after deliberately crashing the car on the side of the road]
Tyler Durden: Goddamn!
[Histerical laughs]
Tyler Durden: You just had a near-life experience! [/quote]
[quote]Narrator: I got in everyone's hostile little face. Yes, these are bruises from fighting. Yes, I'm comfortable with that. I am enlightened. [/quote]
[quote]Narrator: I flipped through catalogs and wondered: What kind of dining set defines me as a person? [/quote]
[quote]Tyler Durden: Hitting bottom isn't a weekend retreat. It's not a goddamn seminar. Stop trying to control everything and just let go! LET GO! [/quote]
[quote][the Narrator's apartment has just been blown to pieces]
Narrator: I had it all. I had a stereo that was very decent, a wardrobe that was getting very respectable. I was close to being complete.
Tyler Durden: Shit man, now it's all gone. [/quote]
[quote]rator: It's just, when you buy furniture, you tell yourself, that's it. That's the last sofa I'm gonna need. Whatever else happens, I've got that sofa problem handled. [/quote]

And finally, althoguh I don't recall this from the book or the movie, there is this:
[quote][first lines]
Tyler Durden: Warning: If you are reading this then this warning is for you. Every word you read of this useless fine print is another second off your life. Don't you have other things to do? Is your life so empty that you honestly can't think of a better way to spend these moments? Or are you so impressed with authority that you give respect and credence to all that claim it? Do you read everything you're supposed to read? Do you think every thing you're supposed to think? Buy what you're told to want? Get out of your apartment. Meet a member of the opposite sex. Stop the excessive shopping and masturbation. Quit your job. Start a fight. Prove you're alive. If you don't claim your humanity you will become a statistic. You have been warned- Tyler
[/quote]

#2 stephenszpak

  • Guest
  • 448 posts
  • 0

Posted 29 January 2007 - 01:25 AM

The sense of ownership in general is always to be encouraged. The humans are always putting up claims to ownership which sound equally funny in Heaven and in Hell and we must keep them doing so...It is as if a royal child whom his father has placed, for love's sake, in titular command of some great province, under the real rule of wise counsellors, should come to fancy he really owns the cities, the forests, and the corn, in the same way as he owns the bricks on the nursery floor...We produce this sense of ownership not only by pride but by confusion. We teach them not to notice the different senses of the possessive pronoun—the finely graded differences that run from "my boots" through "my dog", "my servant", "my wife", "my father", "my master" and "my country", to "my God"...And all the time the joke is that the word "Mine" in its fully possessive sense cannot be uttered by a human being about anything.

Screwtape Letter XXI by C.S. Lewis

-Stephen

#3 Aegist

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest Shane
  • 1,416 posts
  • 0
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 29 January 2007 - 01:55 AM

While I am strongly against CS Lewis' theology, i do like this ;)

sponsored ad

  • Advert

#4 stephenszpak

  • Guest
  • 448 posts
  • 0

Posted 29 January 2007 - 04:09 AM

While I am strongly against CS Lewis' theology, i do like this ;)


Thanks, I appreciate it.

-Stephen

#5 Mixter

  • Guest
  • 788 posts
  • 98
  • Location:Europe

Posted 02 February 2007 - 12:01 PM

> What the fight club philosophy says is that 'life' is not special, life is not important, if
> you die, no one cares. The only think that matters is what you achieve, and your
> personal introspective realisation of experience. You are not defined by your lifestyle,
> your posessions, or your status, everything is meaningless, and i think it is the perfect
> counter-view point to immortality, which immortalists need to understand so that they
> can gain a solid foundational perspective on what an immortal life needs to be about.

Actually this isolated paragraph is simply objective, raw honesty, and should be true for
every immortalist - at least as long as mortality risk is pushed way beyond your 100's
(by technology and also your own lifestyle).

It seems harsh and sure is radical (which doesn't imply wrong:), but if you see it objectively,
it's not all that negative, just honesty. People will usually attach negative emotions to such
a goal directed life-style (fight club itself does, even though it exposes this as truth), while
it can be enjoyful and rewarding (i.e. working as an anti-aging researcher, -activist or
just being an AGI code monk or health nut:)...

Before that elimination of normal lifespan/death risk happens, amassing fame and
earthly belongings is mostly senseless (exception: it helps you achieve the goal of
extending life or advancing the end goal of LE technology, including giving you the
quality of life and motivation to achieve your goals, but not including, for example,
wasting time by showing off at your peers).

For the universe or the world, your life simply is not special and you aren't important.
The immortalist difference is one of viewpoint, namely rational egoism: to view all
values not in relation to the universe as a whole (which makes you rather unimportant),
but to view all values and goals in relation to your own life (and perhaps secondary, in
relation to the people you care about).

However, the one most true idea about this fightclub philosophy stub is the core also
of my motivation: raw honesty, i.e. your personal death is an even horizon, beyond
which nothing that happened before matters anymore, including all achievements (as
long as your viewpoint is rational egoism).

I can't fully rule out life after death, e.g. b/c of the simulation argument, but Occam's
razor alone is sufficient to neglect this (esp., should this unverifiable idea be true, doing
all you can in your 'first'-or-whatever life doesn't harm either).

Ironically, the positive core aspects of 'fight club philosophy' (while the movie is
said to be a wink to socialism), corresponds with rational egoism aspects of objectivism.
Without being a randroid (I'm rather 'born transhumanist' IMO), objectivist stuff in my
youth was the strong factor to implement my anti-fatalist attitude in *practice* in life,
as much as possible. This text is an old but excellent example, of how to appeal to a person's
direct psychological introspection and honesty, rather than abstract philosophy and
-argumentation, when it comes to accepting the importance immortality. I'm not
dogmatic about Oism and its derivatives, but this is one point they certainly bring across.

#6 Aegist

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest Shane
  • 1,416 posts
  • 0
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 02 February 2007 - 12:23 PM

I liked everything you wrote mixter. I must come back another day and read it all again so that I can absorb it better and make a meaningful reply to it.

#7 Reno

  • Guest
  • 584 posts
  • 37
  • Location:Somewhere

Posted 03 February 2007 - 12:19 AM

This idea isn't for people who can live forever, its for those who can't live forever. That was the entire point of fight club. Life isn't going to get better so quit complaining and get what you want out of it before you croke.

The only reason to strive to live forever is so one can feed one's addiction to experiences. Think about it. If one lives a 1000 yrs or 10000000 years, eventually a person will become bored with his life. I've thought about it. I would store my conscious inside my mind and start over ignorant of everything. After reaching a certain point merge the consciousness and do it again. I think that would be the only interesting way to live forever. Otherwise I would be bored out of my skull.

#8 subjunk

  • Guest
  • 21 posts
  • 0
  • Location:Wellington

Posted 25 February 2007 - 05:37 AM

This idea isn't for people who can live forever, its for those who can't live forever. That was the entire point of fight club. Life isn't going to get better so quit complaining and get what you want out of it before you croke.

The only reason to strive to live forever is so one can feed one's addiction to experiences. Think about it. If one lives a 1000 yrs or 10000000 years, eventually a person will become bored with his life. I've thought about it. I would store my conscious inside my mind and start over ignorant of everything. After reaching a certain point merge the consciousness and do it again. I think that would be the only interesting way to live forever. Otherwise I would be bored out of my skull.

That's fine for you to have that opinion but I don't agree.
I would love to live forever.
Every second I'm alive, there are thousands of people inventing new things, writing new books, recording new songs, etc. and I want to experience them all. Even in an infinite timeframe no one would ever be able to experience everything, because everything constantly changes, so while it's valid for you to think you would get bored of life after a while and your logic may be sound when applied to yourself, I don't relate to it at all.

#9 samson

  • Guest
  • 180 posts
  • -0
  • Location:Winland

Posted 25 February 2007 - 11:10 PM

Narrator: On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

Remember this, proud immortals. Ye gods of the brave new worlds, you will die.

You say that life has no meaning, you say that the universe does not care about you puny life. SO FUCKING WHAT? Does it turn you on to know that you are something great? Does it MATTER if an endless void, spotted with flaming balls of plasma and rock, CARES about you? Does it make you ejaculate wildly in glee and satisfaction? I mean, that subject is pointless, nobody gains a shit from it. The universe doesn't matter.
So death invalidates all meaning of our lives? Yes, this is true. Death makes every action, every thought, everyTHING you have ever done or claimed, as meaningless as you are to the universe. All the same, death makes the every attempt to give meaning to life meaningless and moot. All causes for actions are undone on the moment of your death, as are your actions.
So what to do then, when all your reasons are meaningless? Nothing, because there's nothing you can do about it. So screw meaning, just LIVE. Do what you WANT, or die trying.

As for material wealth, it's all the same. Though you still are a gutless little shit if you think you are fulfilled when you have a ying&yang-table.

#10 Shannon Vyff

  • Life Member, Director Lead Moderator
  • 3,897 posts
  • 702
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 25 February 2007 - 11:37 PM

well one does not really know--we have this group because we'd like to be more prepared just in case there are brain back ups/ colonization of different planets/galaxies-- universes..

we also like to make connections to help bring about a more positive future and all work in what ways we can while living and enjoying as much as we can... (bringing about A.I, ending aging, space travel, all sorts of things--in addition to learning about the best ways to live as humans/ as beings)

#11 Aegist

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest Shane
  • 1,416 posts
  • 0
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 25 February 2007 - 11:43 PM

Though you still are a gutless little shit if you think you are fulfilled when you have a ying&yang-table.

LOL.

"What kind of dining set defines me as a person?"

#12 Shannon Vyff

  • Life Member, Director Lead Moderator
  • 3,897 posts
  • 702
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 26 February 2007 - 12:16 AM

anything just about can be found free/second hand or used even a ying/yang table I'm sure--then we'd discuss wether or not you donate the extra money to a charity-- or what your style means about your personality :)

#13 Omnido

  • Guest
  • 194 posts
  • 2

Posted 27 March 2007 - 12:23 AM

The only reason to strive to live forever is so one can feed one's addiction to experiences. Think about it. If one lives a 1000 yrs or 10000000 years, eventually a person will become bored with his life.

Well, perhaps this is true for most people who do not search for the underlying principle for why a person should exist, as opposed to how much of (x) a person should exist for.
My opinion is quite the opposite.
I wish to be immortal not to fill my life with seemingly infinite experience, but to search for an ultimate objective intention, if such a thing truly exists.
If not, then I wish to discover with absolute certainty that it does not.

As for getting bored, well...
Ive been familiar with almost 99% of all the discussion, debates, and arguments on this forum, and conceived of them all long before this institute ever materialized.
That said, I still pop in from time to time to smell the fermentation, sample the local aged cheese, and see if the situation has improved to a state of greater productivity.

Im not so much bored as I am comfortably numb. [sfty]

Suffice it to say, all Ive noticed thus far is an affinity for some individuals in power (directors) attempting to materalize their own self-importance with unnecessary beligerance.
Ah well, such is life.

#14 Aegist

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest Shane
  • 1,416 posts
  • 0
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 27 March 2007 - 12:30 AM

LOL. Hmmm. It isn't as simple as that Omnido. There was extensive discussion behind the scences, and self importance wasn't brought up once.

In any regard, since you are completely committed to productivity rather than sitting and talking, I suggest you check out these the Action forum: http://www.imminst.o...s=&act=SF&f=142

and specifically look into assisting me in my promotion efforts, starting with this: http://www.imminst.o...=142&t=14930&s=
so that we can complete our work on the flyer posting: http://www.imminst.o...=142&t=14681&s=

#15 Shannon Vyff

  • Life Member, Director Lead Moderator
  • 3,897 posts
  • 702
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 27 March 2007 - 01:13 AM

Had a thirty minute interview on a Gainesville Florida station this morning about Cryonics, my book, ending aging, etc... Someone hit me up with the 'But if we don't ever die we won't have as much meaning' lol. It was laughingly easy to dismiss... we can never get rid of death entirely, and we'd deal with boredom the same ways we do now.

Interviews are fun though--never know what will come up --had a religious guy call in and say 'But if you believe in God (I assume he meant the typical U.S Christian God) then you'll live forever anyway' easy again: "Well if cryonics is 'allowed' to work, or aging is ended, then you can do more good for your respective God in the future"

#16 Aegist

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest Shane
  • 1,416 posts
  • 0
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 27 March 2007 - 01:44 AM

Great stuff wing girl. Its brilliant seeing someone productively acheiving things!

Did you get a plug for ImmInst in there? ;)

#17 Shannon Vyff

  • Life Member, Director Lead Moderator
  • 3,897 posts
  • 702
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 27 March 2007 - 06:25 PM

Well I plug the Mprize, every interview I give ;)

I'll make sure I mention ImmInst in one of my longer interviews I have a few hour long ones scheduled.

#18 DJS

  • Guest
  • 5,798 posts
  • 11
  • Location:Taipei
  • NO

Posted 27 March 2007 - 06:33 PM

We need more beautiful female spokes people like yourself who have great family lives and a super positive out look on things. It goes a long way towards minimizing the uber-dork factor that our community obviously possesses.

I admire your efforts wing girl! ;)

#19 Omnido

  • Guest
  • 194 posts
  • 2

Posted 27 March 2007 - 06:54 PM

In any regard, since you are completely committed to productivity rather than sitting and talking, I suggest you check out these the Action forum:

So let me clarify here.
Is You're goal to spread awareness by flaunting media-frenzy induced memetic propaganda?
If so, then no thanks.
If not, what was plan B?

and specifically look into assisting me in my promotion efforts, starting with this:
so that we can complete our work on the flyer posting:

Thank you, but no.

#20 mitkat

  • Guest
  • 1,948 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Toronto, Canada

Posted 27 March 2007 - 07:12 PM

In any regard, since you are completely committed to productivity rather than sitting and talking, I suggest you check out these the Action forum:

So let me clarify here.
Is You're goal to spread awareness by flaunting media-frenzy induced memetic propaganda?
If so, then no thanks.
If not, what was plan B?

and specifically look into assisting me in my promotion efforts, starting with this:
so that we can complete our work on the flyer posting:

Thank you, but no.


What are you proposing in lieu of this effort, exactly?

#21 zoolander

  • Guest
  • 4,724 posts
  • 55
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

Posted 27 March 2007 - 07:15 PM

yes I would like to hear if you have anything constructive to say

#22 DJS

  • Guest
  • 5,798 posts
  • 11
  • Location:Taipei
  • NO

Posted 27 March 2007 - 07:30 PM

Omnido:

I wish to be immortal not to fill my life with seemingly infinite experience, but to search for an ultimate objective intention, if such a thing truly exists.

If not, then I wish to discover with absolute certainty that it does not.


From my perspective, this desire represents cognitive dissonance at a most fundamental level.

If one posits Being as process, then static state goals are tantamount to death (and thus in contradiction with the stated desire of immortality). I've found that it is hard for most intellectuals to wrap their minds around the fact that *mystery* can be both friend and foe. The traditional approach is to view it as a foe which needs to be vanquished, and this would explain why most intellectuals have an instinctual fondness for certainty. However, attaining absolute certainty would negate the primary purpose for being...

As a consequence of this, I strive towards certainty while still maintaining the desire that absolute certainty is never attained. Of course, it may eventually turn out that such a state of affairs is possible but it is not something I find remotely desirable.

#23 Aegist

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest Shane
  • 1,416 posts
  • 0
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 28 March 2007 - 12:14 AM

In any regard, since you are completely committed to productivity rather than sitting and talking, I suggest you check out these the Action forum:

So let me clarify here.
Is You're goal to spread awareness by flaunting media-frenzy induced memetic propaganda?
If so, then no thanks.
If not, what was plan B?

I think you mean 'Your'

But anyway...

No, media induced frenzy was never the goal. Getting the idea out into the public was the goal. And then...doing more of that. And then maybe some more. But we'll have to re-evaluate as we go. If the media should react, then fine, we'll deal with that as it happens, but it isn't the 'goal'.


and specifically look into assisting me in my promotion efforts, starting with this:
so that we can complete our work on the flyer posting:

Thank you, but no.

Still a No?
If so, then as two posters prior to this have asked: What do you propose instead?

#24 Omnido

  • Guest
  • 194 posts
  • 2

Posted 30 March 2007 - 12:38 AM

If one posits Being as process, then static state goals are tantamount to death (and thus in contradiction with the stated desire of immortality).

I disagree.
I can desire immortality as a tentative; the ultimate personal acquistion of knowledge, to whatever acceptable degree of certainty, as being the sole purpose behind ones established existence.
That said, the only difference between my preference and another is simply the duration of desired existence for a justifiable yet finite timeline.

No doubt some would desire to live indefinately for no reason at all, or for a reason that propagates itself indefinately, and thusly has no conclusion or justification for said immortality other than for its own sake, or the fear behind the paradoxical realization for non-being.

As Ive stated many times:
To each, their own.

I've found that it is hard for most intellectuals to wrap their minds around the fact that *mystery* can be both friend and foe.  The traditional approach is to view it as a foe which needs to be vanquished, and this would explain why most intellectuals have an instinctual fondness for certainty.

Uncertainty has its appeal, in that those who recognize their uncertainty also have the ability to choose to rectify that thorugh implimentation of methods which generate a conclusive certainty.
The "Mystery" is still compelling, so long as one does not objectively know the truth of it until it is revealed.

Not knowing is just as rewarding to me as knowing, because either way, I can be certain of both.
The difference here is application.
Knowledge is power, while ignorance is weakness.
Ignorance can generate bliss from unawareness of pain or sufferring, be they physical, mental, or both.
Personally, I'd rather have the knowledge than the ignorance.

However, attaining absolute certainty would negate the primary purpose for being...

If you are suggessting that absolute knowledge leads to being perfect, then I have no disagreement there.
For me, there can be no higher goal, no greater aspiration, no more meaningful achievement.
And upon completion of said achievement, one is essentially complete.
If through attainment of completion one's existence inevitably results in Death, then I have absolutely no qualms about that at all.
After all, how does one top perfection? [sfty]

...I strive towards certainty while still maintaining the desire that absolute certainty is never attained.  Of course, it may eventually turn out that such a state of affairs is possible but it is not something I find remotely desirable.


Again, to each, their own. ;)

#25 zoolander

  • Guest
  • 4,724 posts
  • 55
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

Posted 30 March 2007 - 06:17 AM

Knowledge is power, while ignorance is weakness.
Ignorance can generate bliss from unawareness of pain or sufferring, be they physical, mental, or both.
Personally, I'd rather have the knowledge than the ignorance.


IMO both knowledge and ignorance are 2 integral components that make up the complete experience. We live in a world that is constantly changing. Coupled to this is your perception of the world that is constantly changing. So, in saying this, how is knowledge powerful. Isn't knowledge just as likely to blind you from seeing the truth.

#26 zoolander

  • Guest
  • 4,724 posts
  • 55
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

Posted 30 March 2007 - 06:20 AM

and if knowledge is power then will you use this power to help the ignorant/weak?

#27 Aegist

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest Shane
  • 1,416 posts
  • 0
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 30 March 2007 - 06:23 AM

If knowledge is wrong, then it isn't knowledge.

Knowledge...true knowledge IS power. But true knowledge isn't really possible. So its academic anyway.

#28 basho

  • Guest
  • 774 posts
  • 1
  • Location:oʎʞoʇ

Posted 30 March 2007 - 08:39 AM

If knowledge is wrong, then it isn't knowledge.

How can knowledge be right or wrong? Maybe it is correct or incorrect, but it is still knoweldge.

#29 Shannon Vyff

  • Life Member, Director Lead Moderator
  • 3,897 posts
  • 702
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 30 March 2007 - 09:06 AM

knowledge of many areas and issues creates awareness --which in turn increases morality and empathy... but I tend to believe that we are here to of course 'pass on our genes' but that we developed the society we have by helping each other out...

I'd contend that advanced knowledge in certain field creates an expert and hence power within that field-- but overall knowledge --as it grows even as ones 'power' grows such as what happened with Bill Gates-- one puts more money/resources back into society (The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation as created an impact already--and they have even decided to only leave a few million to each of their children--and to put the remaining billions into charity)

#30 zoolander

  • Guest
  • 4,724 posts
  • 55
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

Posted 30 March 2007 - 09:07 AM

I think it comes down to what the individual sees as knowledge. Knowledge for me really just means understanding. It is not really about knowing, if that makes any sense.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users