CHAT ARCHIVE
<wing_girl> Its a bit sad how little people put towards advancing their own lives through studying health, and advancing society in a positive direction by discussing problems what can be done, and accelerating change
<simdizzy> whoa have i just arrived on time?
<BJKlein> Official Chat: CR with Shannon Vyff starting now..
<Utnapishtim> yupp
<BJKlein> Shannon has been practicing CR (Caloric Restriction) for 2yrs..
<wing_girl> I for instance, did discuss this chat with about 30 people, mainly the thought talking would be a waste of time....
<BJKlein> She's signed up for Cryonics (Cryonics Inst)
<BJKlein> and she's here to answer your questions..
<wing_girl> I think people can get ideas, and spread new cultural memes...
<BJKlein> Thanks for joining us wing_girl
<Utnapishtim> Nice to meet you Sharon
<BJKlein> Shannon
<Utnapishtim> shannon sorry
<wing_girl> Nice to meet you all! :-)
<Kissinger> hi
<wing_girl> I'm all for advancing change, and changing the way humans think
<simdizzy> so two years in, and how are you coping with the CR diet?
<wing_girl> If people expected to live to 1000 there would be a lot of differences in our laws, its just getting to being able to live that long, under the currant world views that we have....
<Kissinger> what do you think the best way is to do this?
<Utnapishtim> How strict is your caloric restriction regime?
<Kissinger> ah, the question I was going to ask...
<wing_girl> I was more strict when I started, I counted 1600, stayed at 120 pounds, but I had extreme problems with wound healing, and as I was/am still breastfeeding I started eating more, yet at one time in the day (I'm 5'10") and 125 pounds
<BJKlein> Shannon, I share your feelings of discontent with current social situation toward life extension.. what's your driving motivation doing all this work though? Do you feel that life is all there is?
<Utnapishtim> so you practiced caloric restriction through a pregnancy?
<BJKlein> ..
<wing_girl> I know that we have not put a man on the moon in 31 years! we put 343 billion into the Pentegon here in the U.S. and only 31 billion into education, I do not think just being alive is all there is, many holocaust survivors survived by being happy they were alive period, but I believe there is such a thing as quality of living, and we can help to change the quality of living in this world, apox. 16 billion for instance to alleviate starvat
<wing_girl> No, Utnapishtim, I did not , I started four months after my pregnancy when I was 210 pounds
<BJKlein> wow
<wing_girl> in six months I went down to 120 pounds... not what is recommended, a much more gradual weight loss is better for longevity purposes, but I figured I had the normal weight loss and hormones post pregnancy on my side
<BJKlein> what got you into CR?
<wing_girl> I am planning on attending the accelerating change conf. I hope to learn more about what business are doing to look towards the future, and how or if responsibility is being advanced
<BJKlein> wing_girl, we'd be interested in your review of AC if you so choose to drop by again
<BJKlein> We'll have an ImmInst representative there as well, Michael Anissimov helping with the setup of the Conference
<ravi1> are we using #immortal2 2night?
<BJKlein> just this one for now ravi1
<Utnapishtim> How hard has it been to incorporate the lifestyle changes of caloric restriction with the rest of your life?
<wing_girl> I would love to report on conf.
<BJKlein> excellent
<wing_girl> I went through major changes! from a McDonald on the run grabbing mama, to a organic, preparing meals to take with me mom
<Utnapishtim> lol
<simdizzy> How much protein do you consume per day?
<Rotaerk> e-nuf
<wing_girl> I also plan on not eating but once a day, so sometimes skip sitting and eating with others in my family (makes for time to clean while the children make their instant messes) and I eat at one large meal of the day
<wing_girl> I upped my protein intake to about 30 %
<simdizzy> whats that in g
<Utnapishtim> have you experienced any unpleasant side effects since adopting caloric restriction?
<Guest1> is eating just once/daynormal CR practice?
<wing_girl> when I was having problems with wound healing... mainly through legumes/grain combo's occ. organic grass fed meats... (those are rare) and often wild (not farmed) salmon
<wing_girl> eating once a day is not normal CR practice, some just restrict all the time, some do Every Other Day (EOD) there is a new study being conducted on that... if you do a search
<wing_girl> I do it since I would rather feel full at a meal, when I am not breastfeeding I plan to do EOD
<Utnapishtim> Are you familiar with Lthe LEFs claims that there is a drug which replicates most of the effects of caloric restriction?
<wing_girl> yes I read about that
<Mermaid> no hunger pangs, wing_girl?
<wing_girl> sounds nice
<wing_girl> yes, but I feel a bit guilty when I feel full, and I welcome the hunger pains back, as being on track...
<Guest1> yes i saw about that study, i asked because id imagined blood sugar leveling was a positive for life extension?
<wing_girl> They peak around 1-2 in the afternoon, and I feel a bit weak or tired, but eat a large meal by 5, so I am my sleep is not affected by excessive hunger
<Kissinger> I have tried to find info on every other day (EOD), but have been, in large part, unsuccessful in finding anything. Have you found any new studies on it or anything?
<simdizzy> first of all what is EOD? eat every other day and fast the next?
<wing_girl> From what I've read it is better to have lower amounts of insulin, helps keep the growth hormones down, and when you do EOD the insulin that is released in response to a meal is much better utilized
<Utnapishtim> do you get cold more easily since adopting CR?
<wing_girl> yes, it is eating all you want in a four hour peoriod on one day, then fasting the next
<wing_girl> I used to be a person who never wore coats or sweaters in the OR rainey cool winters, people teased me, now I have them on even in the house in the winter time! Currantly I'm in 104 degree weather, so its not a problem!
<Utnapishtim> Are you also signed up with a cryonics company?
<wing_girl> The rats on EOD eat the same amount of calories in a week than rats on ad lib (free feed) yet they have the same longevity as the calorie restricted rodents
<wing_girl> Croyonics Institute
<Guest1> do you think you will be adopting EOD regime in the future
<wing_girl> yes, when I'm not breastfeeding anymore
<simdizzy> does fasting in this case mean just limited to water
<simdizzy> or can you have fruit juice
<Guest1> EOD seems a lot more attractive lifestyle!
<BJKlein> careful with sugar spiked juices
<simdizzy> i meant like pure fresh orang or whatever
<wing_girl> good question! a glass of orange juice has more sugar than an equivalent glass of coke
<BJKlein> I must ask, because it's happened to me (somewhat on occasion)... have you experienced any drop in sex drive with CR?
<wing_girl> it adds a lot of calories, and the rodents are not getting them
* BJKlein only drinks water
<wing_girl> I only drink water
<simdizzy> BJ, you do EOD ?
<BJKlein> no.. just moderate CR
<simdizzy> so the only drinks you ever drink are water
<simdizzy> no tea/coffee?
* BJKlein drinks decaf hot tea on occasion
<wing_girl> Ok, NO I do not know if it is a girl thing? I have not talked with enough girls, but when I get hungry during the day, and my temples get tingly, well lets just say my libido is increased, great distraction from hunger as well
<wing_girl> I drink tea, not coffee
<BJKlein> interesting
<Mermaid> its just like having a raging fever and feeling horny all the time, wing_girl?..
<BJKlein> heh
<wing_girl> I know my husband had no problems even when he did a 7 day fast...
<wing_girl> no I do not feel like I have a fever!
<simdizzy> would you drink decaff coffee, wing_girl, since it has less caffeine than tea?
<BJKlein> caffeen induces insulin spikes which will make one more hungry (or at least it does with me)
<Utnapishtim> have your strength and energy levels declined?
<BJKlein> caffeine that is
<wing_girl> no, I've read good and bad things on coffee, mostly bad, and I think the decaffination process the excessive processing is possibly a problem
<simdizzy> what about milk, that doesn’t contain sugar?
<BJKlein> loads of sugar
<wing_girl> When I started CR I noticed immediately that I needed less sleep! and my energy was increased,
<Mermaid> do you exercise?
<wing_girl> I give my children raw, organic, goat milk, and occasionally will have a small amount, an ounce or so
<BJKlein> simdizzy, you'll be surprised by checking the little box on food/drinks the amount of added sugar is scary
<simdizzy> i drink about a pint a day of milk, do you think this is bad thing?
<BJKlein> how old are you?
<simdizzy> 22
<BJKlein> it will be soon
<Mermaid> how much is a pint in litres?
<simdizzy> dunno
<Guest1> half
<Mermaid> k
<Mermaid> wow..half a litre..500 ml?
<Mermaid> thats like 2 glasses of milk/day?
<wing_girl> I try to live as much as "natural" as possible, I was into that in highschool, that is why I learned about things like breastfeeding, etc. I also believe that the human body is supposed to be getting five miles a day, I would not want to waste that amount of time walking outdoors (especially in the heat, or pollution of a city) so I walk uphill on a treadmill and read, about two hours a day... that way I'm doing two things at once@
<simdizzy> yes is that a lot mermaid?
<Mermaid> i used to have that much when i was in school...but after i turned 15 or something...my mom cut it down to a glass/day..
<Mermaid> but mostly because we have a lot of dairy at home in the form of buttermilk and curd
<Mermaid> and ghee
<simdizzy> 1 pint = 568 ml
<BJKlein> simdizzy, once you stop growing and start getting older, the excessive sugar from the milk will accumulate, it'll be harder to keep weight off, and your blood sugar level will be whacked
<Mermaid> she didnt think that much dairy in the form of milk alone was a good thing
<wing_girl> the fats in butter are pre-digested though, and digested before they reach the small intestine unlike other fats
<simdizzy> hmm..i didnt realize milk had excessive sugar
<Utnapishtim> I have an extremely fast metabolism I eat like a demon but stay slim
<simdizzy> time for a rethink methinks
* BJKlein has a big thing against sugar
<wing_girl> it has lactose, wich is broken down to galactose and glucose (dextrose)
<Guest1> is lactose that high on glycaemic ratio i thought it not too bad (dont exactly remember)
<Mermaid> ghee/cheese/butter does not have lactose..if i remember right
<simdizzy> where does it say sugar on the carton, are we just looking at "carbahydrates: which sugar..."
<wing_girl> Galactose is the only source material that devolps the myelin sheath- the coating that surrounds all nerves, the amount of lactose in human milk is higher thn in any other species
<BJKlein> do you live in the states simdizzy?
<simdizzy> no
<simdizzy> UK
<BJKlein> ugg
<Mermaid> lol
<BJKlein> check total carbs
<Guest1> yes, carbs in milk all lactose
<BJKlein> that'll give you a rough estimate
<BJKlein> probably like 13 or 15 grams
<simdizzy> total carbs is proportional to sugar content?
<BJKlein> per 8oz glass
<BJKlein> total carbs is sugar
<BJKlein> plus the other carbs
<simdizzy> but i eat more carbs in my daily vegetable intake
<simdizzy> like from peas etfc
<BJKlein> nope, doubt it
<simdizzy> Peas are full of carbs
<BJKlein> you'd have to eat a lot of vegetables.. raw that is..
<BJKlein> processed vegs have added sugar to improve taste
<simdizzy> yes i eat them raw and about 500g of peas
<BJKlein> like corn and such
<BJKlein> all carbs turn into sugar.. so there quite the same
<Guest1> you've all made me hungry gonna make a sandwich brb
<simdizzy> so the best diets are low carbs + low fat ?
<BJKlein> but, straight sugar is worse because it has zero nutritional value
* BJKlein doesn't worry about fat..
<simdizzy> really?
<wing_girl> sorry breastfeeding tangent: the protein in human milk is 60 per cent whey 40 per cent casein, and cow's milk is 85 per cent casein and only 15 per cent whey, whey proteins are water soluble-casein is not. Infants can use 100 per cent of the protein in breast milk but only 50 per cent of the protein in cow's milk. This causes babies to have to over eat to make up the diff thus contributing to obesity, also the fat in human milk has DGLO d
<BJKlein> just eat good stuff, low carb, no sugar.. mostly chicken, tuna, other meat salads a few fruits, little bread.. no pasta or potatoes or high carb stuff
<wing_girl> breast milk is a living tissue more complex than blood, and a lot of problems people have are due to bottle feeding
<ravi1> oh i drink about 4 glasses of milk a day
<BJKlein> ravi1 you're like 20?
<ravi1> 19
<wing_girl> When eating meats I think it is important to eat 10% meat 90% veggies...
<BJKlein> i'd probably try to change slowly over a few years in that case, you're still young
<wing_girl> you don't start aging till 25!
<wing_girl> ish
<ravi1> oh k
<wing_girl> and you have to plan around if you plan on reproducing
<BJKlein> heh
<ravi1> how about if u drink skim milk
<wing_girl> When I started CR I used nutritional software to balance my diet,
<BJKlein> has sugar also
<wing_girl> it can help you to see what vitamins, minerals, etc. you are getting in a day
<Guest1> do you do resistance exercise as well as aerobic?
<BJKlein> there's not much processed foods out there without some sugar added to improve taste
<wing_girl> yes I do that when I watch a documentary or rented foreign film... I have a totalgym in front of our big screen t.v.
<simdizzy> BJ: you said you only drink water and decaff tea, but what about wine...you mean you never have a glass of red wine occasionally?
<Guest> which soft program?
<wing_girl> When you do CR the important thing is the ON Optimal Nutrition eating caloricly dense foods
<wing_girl> calories that have vitamins and minerals as well
<BJKlein> i do.. on rare occassions, but i'm now trying just light beer.. just one can probably once every two months if that
<wing_girl> yes I have organic, sulfite free red wine, and dark org. choc.!
<simdizzy> Ive started drinking 1-2 glasses of red wine on a daily basis
<wing_girl> When my husband is around we would have a glass two nights a week...
<Guest> why 10% meat with 90% veggies?
<Guest1> do you take much in the way of vitamin supplements etc?
<wing_girl> I think it is beneficial for the fiber to move the meat through your system, (three bowel movements a day are the norm, but not in U.S.) and to increase the amount of cartenoids, minerals, vitimins, etc.
<wing_girl> I do, take a multi with a low amount of vit. A in beta carotone form (most have too high amounts)
<simdizzy> why vitamin A?
<Guest> how often do you eat meat? serving size?
<wing_girl> A is just something to look at on the label of multi vitamins, most have too much of it
<wing_girl> I eat meat about once a week,
<simdizzy> I take A supplements as well as a multi(with A included)
<Guest> 30% protien what % carbs?
<wing_girl> Filling up on veggies, through salads, helps to not over eat high calorie through fats
<simdizzy> shannon, once a week isnt much, how do you get your protein?
<wing_girl> I eat legumes and grains daily
<simdizzy> dont they have high carbs?
<Guest> meat 1/week then main protein is? whey too?
<wing_girl> plus lots of broccoli which has a higher amount of protein per calorie than Meat, you just have to eat four times as much
<wing_girl> I used to use whey, when I was having the low protein indicators, but have not been lately.. and have been fine
<simdizzy> yes i eat lots of broccoli, unfortunately i dont like the flavour so i have to pickle it
<simdizzy> didnt know it was that good in terms of protein/cal
<wing_girl> I try to eat things in as much a natural state as possible
<Guest> are you low carb high protein? your %carbs daily?
<wing_girl> so as to not add excessive sodium, I've read a lot on Paleolithic diets
<simdizzy> are legumes low in carbs?
<wing_girl> I probably am around 60% carbs daily
<simdizzy> doesnt that translate into a lot of sugar?
<Guest> wow! so you are way low fat? 30p + 60c = 10%fats
<wing_girl> I eat mainly complex carbs/veggies
<simdizzy> i probably consume less than 2% fat
<wing_girl> I've been low fat for a while... and have thought of increasing my fat intake
<wing_girl> I'm around 10%, I try to eat avocado, walnuts, or small amounts of canola
<simdizzy> so you advocate avocadoes ;-)
<wing_girl> There are a lot of diet books out there! I like the Zone, it is kind of a CR diet
<wing_girl> you can learn a lot about how different people pract. CR by following the CR Society daily digest for a while...
<wing_girl> they are great at answering complicated diet questions for those that wish to delve further into it
<Kissinger> do they have any stats on how many people practice CR?
<wing_girl> At the conf. they were saying there are 500 or so known through the CR society, and probably many more pract. on their own
<wing_girl> I also wanted to say that being cryogenically frozen does not have to be expensive, CI is less than the price of a new car, at 28,000 at it can come out of life ins. premium... vs. 120,000 for ALCOR
<BJKlein> wing_girl, you went to the conference in Wisconsin?
<wing_girl> yes
<Kissinger> are you going to encourage your children to go on CR after they reach puberty?
<simdizzy> Shannon, how old are you BTW?
<BJKlein> Shannon is 28
<Guest> did you pay up front or pay-out? cost diff?
<wing_girl> I tell my oldest daughter that she can use CR to extend her fertility... I'm exp. with that now, as I'm delaying the return of my menses
<wing_girl> I do educate them, as to why we eat healthy, it is hard with so much junk food in our culture
<wing_girl> you pay 1,600 to sign up a family... (or you can do a student option and pay monthly) just check out their site for their options
<wing_girl> I'm not sure if they are the same now anyway...
<Kissinger> what happens if Im in an accidental death.
<Kissinger> do they work out a plan of action with you?
<wing_girl> I wear a medic alert
<wing_girl> and it is all chance, dep on the circumstances
<wing_girl> If I knew I was terminal I would travel to the facility, or have myself transported
<Kissinger> what happens with a car accident
<Guest> are you strict about kids school lunch, snacks, etc? how do they react?
<wing_girl> you can get a digest with current info on the Cryonics movement, I keep track of where new storage facilities are located
<Guest> you prepare most of their meals?
<wing_girl> like I said there is an element of chance in what happens with being frozen or not
<wing_girl> on my children, I do make all their meals and snacks, but I don't cook much, so it is mostly frozen bags of org. vegetables and fruits I get out of the freezer in the morning, or amy's kitchen org. burritos,
<wing_girl> or fresh veggies, fruits and nuts (I never eat roasted ones)
<wing_girl> they trade unhealthy candies they get from school, or anywhere for organic treats like the chocolate
<Guest> what got you started in immort, cryon, cr? which first?
<Guest> a lot of peer pressure w/kids -problems.
<wing_girl> SCI FI made me want to be an immort, from an early age... I got into CR later
<wing_girl> My dad and I discussed the future a lot when I was a child
<wing_girl> I always wanted to see it, and I'm so dismayed with the slowness of change, and where we are right now...
<wing_girl> in the world, and peoples attitudes
<BJKlein> wing_girl, i felt much the same way, evolutionary psychology has done much to explain peoples attitudes to me
<simdizzy> but the good news is that change is accelerating
<wing_girl> yes! as long as people stay aware keep up the investigative reporting
<wing_girl> and people don't lose their ideals, that is the sad thing I see with some that get older
<Guest> yes, cultures, religions, ancient systems. change but resistance & special interests control what change.
<wing_girl> they become so "conservative" or view the world with a "conservative optimism" which is world change through domination
<wing_girl> It is the money, that is in power, staying in power
<cyborg01> Whats up?
<wing_girl> 548 billion dollars for the armies of the Allies!
<wing_girl> If anyone is wanting to do CR it is important to learn about it! I forgot to mention that there is a risk of osteoporosis
<wing_girl> I am negative for my age
<simdizzy> how can we counteract the potential osteoporosis/
<BJKlein> yeh, it's good to point our the risk..
<simdizzy> is that the only risk?
<BJKlein> obsessive compulsiveness is also a problem
<Guest> what test did you take for negative?
<wing_girl> so I am careful about getting calcium, mag, K and D, I'm looking at getting menontrenome sorry on sp, there is much discussion on it in the currant CR digest
<wing_girl> bone scan
<Guest> dexa or heal or?
<wing_girl> I'm planning on testing yearly, my mother and father both have it...
<wing_girl> dexa
<Guest> i've yet to hear one cr person not shrunk in height doing it. maybe natural occurance?
<wing_girl> everyone shrinks when they age!
<Rotaerk> height or....length?
<Rotaerk> well...I guess when you said "everyone" you also meant girls...so I guess you are referring to height
<wing_girl> and the CR people mostly looked great for their age at conf.
<wing_girl> lol
<wing_girl> some parts of the world viagra sells for more than gold or heroin like Kashmir right now...
<Rotaerk> I just had a rationalization-based argument with someone...due to boredom....gotta stop that
<Rotaerk> I was defending the goals of Eliezer and his so-called "followers"...without actually knowing enough to propose worthy reasons.
<wing_girl> I think Elixor would be bettor to discuss here!
<wing_girl> the Immortalist Mannifesto - I had to give copies to my friends
<ravi1> at what age would u say a person should begin CR
<wing_girl> the inequities in government spending, how little goes to anti-aging, less than a million when 7 or 8 billion dollar planes were made in 96 or so alone!
<BJKlein> wing_girl, i have the Manifesto as well...
<wing_girl> I think a person should start when they are old enough to educate themselves about it, in mice, rats, and dogs the ones started from infancy have a significant lifespan increase but their adult size is stunted
<wing_girl> I tell this all to my children, who do not want to be stunted!
<BJKlein> i agree with his general ideas on how to get there, (immortality) but I beleive he has a tendancy to be a little brash
<wing_girl> but want to live a long time to work on changing injustices in the world, that is the great thing about having kids, they cry when they see killings on t.v. or hear of children in slavery
<wing_girl> I read my daughter Mother Jones etc.
<Guest> just shows where "our" priorities are! gotta get the military interested in cr soldiers or something
<BJKlein> soldiers that never die.. heh
<Guest> what is your daily calorie range?
<Guest> what software did you use? you stopped using it because you have a method or set plan now?
<wing_girl> Walford's and yes, I got the hang of it, go through cycles of strictness, my dream now, when I get time is to get a slick hand held with the USDA nutrional database at my fingertips!
<hkhenson> wassail
<BJKlein> keith!
<wing_girl> my calorie range is 1600 to 2000
<hkhenson> hi bj
<hkhenson> just got back from movie
<hkhenson> did I miss all the fun?
<BJKlein> ahh, you showed didn't ya?
<BJKlein> Shannon has been helping us.. with CR
<hkhenson> ah grim stuff CR
<BJKlein> she'll also be going to the Accelerating Change Conf. CA in Sept
<wing_girl> I was surprised that so many were intersted...
<wing_girl> hey the CR conf. was happening!
<wing_girl> fun
<Guest> are you a high or low "metabolism" person? Easy to gain or lose weight or always maintained balance?
<hkhenson> sigh.
<wing_girl> high...
<hkhenson> gain slowly
<hkhenson> but even a pound a year for 40 years . . . .
<BJKlein> did you meet Dr. Weindruch per chance wing_girl?
<wing_girl> yes
<BJKlein> he seems like a nice fella..
<hkhenson> though I do know a way to lose weight like crazy. been there, did it.
<wing_girl> he was diff. than I expected! as in he does not pract. CR!
<BJKlein> no way!
<wing_girl> yeah!
<hkhenson> eat all you want. but do it at 14,000 feet plus
<hkhenson> :-)
<BJKlein> how does that work keith?
<wing_girl> well I've got to go, thanks all, it was fun
<hkhenson> extra breathing bj
<BJKlein> interesting
<hkhenson> breathing hard while lying flat on your back at that elevation.
<hkhenson> air pressure is down to 50 % of sea level
<Guest> bye thanks for sharing
<BJKlein> Thanks again Shannon!
<BJKlein> hope to see you again
<wing_girl> later
