• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Doctor's Best resveratrol


  • Please log in to reply
100 replies to this topic

#1 stephen_b

  • Guest
  • 1,661 posts
  • 196

Posted 16 February 2007 - 05:13 PM


I saw Doctor's best resveratrol on iHerb.com for $12.49 a bottle (60 capsules). Each capsule contains 100 mg transresveratrol.

Best Resveratrol features ResVinol-25, a proprietary extract providing concentrated levels of polyphenols and trans-resveratrol from red wine matrix and the root of the Japanese knotweed (Polygonum cuspidatum) plant. Resveratrol exists in both trans-and cis-forms. However, published researched suggests that only the trans-form has considerable biological activity. ResVinol-25 is a high-quality extract subjected to rigorous ProfileProven analytical and quality assurance procedures designed to ensure potency and purity of the extract from batch to batch. The product is extensively tested for heavy metals, bacterial and fungal contaminants, and pesticides to verify purity and compliance with acceptable standards.

Sounds like a good deal (comes out to 0.208 cents per mg transresveratrol). Anyone familiar with Doctor's Best? Note the explicit mention of testing for heavy metals. They got dinged by a Consumer Labs report on their high absorption calcium tablet for lead content in February 2006. I hope this means they actively addressed the issue.

Stephen

#2 Ghostrider

  • Guest
  • 1,996 posts
  • 56
  • Location:USA

Posted 16 February 2007 - 05:32 PM

I use Doctor's Best CoQ10. I wish I had known about the Consumer Labs report...if I did, I would have never bought. I don't even know how well the stuff performs relative to alternatives.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 maxwatt

  • Guest, Moderator LeadNavigator
  • 4,938 posts
  • 1,612
  • Location:New York

Posted 18 February 2007 - 03:58 AM

This appears to contain an extract from Polygonum cuspidatum standardized to 25% trans-resveratrol. Extracts at this percentage of resveratrol contain 10% or more emodin. This means each cap almost certainly contains 40 mg or more of emodin. Most people who take two or more of these caps a day will experience a strong laxative effect. Even one cap will do it for many people.

#4 boily

  • Guest
  • 171 posts
  • -0
  • Location:Sydney Australia

Posted 18 February 2007 - 05:01 AM

This appears to contain an extract from Polygonum cuspidatum standardized to 25% trans-resveratrol. Extracts at this percentage of resveratrol contain 10% or more emodin. This means each cap almost certainly contains 40 mg or more of emodin. Most people who take two or more of these caps a day will experience a strong laxative effect. Even one cap will do it for many people


Would this mean country life brand is better than doctor's best? Say you were taking 200-400mg a day..... Both brands seem fairly economical

#5 maxwatt

  • Guest, Moderator LeadNavigator
  • 4,938 posts
  • 1,612
  • Location:New York

Posted 18 February 2007 - 09:34 AM

This appears to contain an extract from Polygonum cuspidatum standardized to 25% trans-resveratrol. Extracts at this percentage of resveratrol contain 10% or more emodin. This means each cap almost certainly contains 40 mg or more of emodin. Most people who take two or more of these caps a day will experience a strong laxative effect. Even one cap will do it for many people


Would this mean country life brand is better than doctor's best? Say you were taking 200-400mg a day..... Both brands seem fairly economical


Yes. Country Life is made with a 50% resveratrol content from the same herb. The do not specify their emodin content (and probably did not specify when they ordered their raw material) but these run under 10% emodin. I can get it in two grades; under 5% and under 3%. Where the emodin content is unspecified, it runs over 5%, sometimes close to 10%.

So Country live will have a higher ratio of resveratrol to emodin, and you can take a higher dose without grotesque gastrointestinal gurgling. I've not been able to find out the emodin content of Country Life (or of BAC powder which is straight 50% resveratrol extract.) I've spoken with James Betz, who makes Bioforte. He claims to keep his emodin content under 5%. Even at 5%, a 500 mg capsule containing 250 mg of resveratrol will contain 25 mg of emodin. Two capsule will contain 50 mg of emodin, which I find is a laxative. Taken in divided doses, spread out over a day (as the mice ate theirs with food in Sinclair's study) this amount would be tolerable for many people. Mr. Betz has told me he is taking 1500 mg a day; I think that was one capsule with every meal. He said he adapted to that amount of emodin. Revgenetics offers a 1000mg cap, with 500 mg of trans-resveratrol, and claim a very low emodin content. I am leery of their product; there were factual inaccuracies in the FAQ on their website. They could be merely using a bigger capsule than others, yet the color of the capsules in their pictures is not the brownish-red of a 50% extract like they claim to be using-- it is the color of the 98% extracts I've had in front of me. If there is a lot of inconsistency instead of clarity, it's a warning sign to me.

People do vary in their response to emodin, and a little may be a good thing. It is a powerful anti-cancer molecule, but many cannot tolerate even small doses, and some of us want to take higher doses than 100 or 250 mg without discomfort.

I've been taking resveratrol since early January, both Orchid and a 98% extract I obtained and tested. I increased my dose in stages to 1 gram daily, in two divided doses. So far my HDL has increased 16 points, my total cholesterol has dropped 13 points. My power output over time on an ergonometer is greater, though this could be placebo. Blood glucose is unchanged. Arthritic joint pain is diminished; resveratrol is known to be a COX-2 inhibitor. I think there may be more to it than that. Yesterday I was able to crack my knuckles for the first time in years, since before I developed arthritis symptoms. Could this be an indicator of improved joint health?

I've been informed that at this time, the FDA regulates P. cuspidatum resveratrol extracts as an herbal supplement. As long as the resveratrol is found in association with other substances that are naturally occuring in the herb, they would have a hard time banning it, and little motivation to do so, unless it was found to be harmful. (Despite what people say about big pharma, the FDA generally listens to its budgetary constraints more than to pharmaceutical companies.) Other supplements are marketed that are standardized to 80%, or more. I would expect to see higher potency extracts on the market by this summer.

I can get 80, 85,90, 95 or 98% extracts. 85% has 1 to 3% emodin. 90% is usually under 1% emodin. I believe I can buy 80% or higher extract, have it tested, use a clean-room facility in the US to cap and bottle it for me, and still bring it in with the price no more that $2 a gram. I don't know if it would be a profitable use of my time.

#6 chrisp2

  • Guest
  • 163 posts
  • 2
  • Location:Seattle, WA

Posted 18 February 2007 - 03:03 PM

Max - not sure if you are looking to go "into business".. But I'm sure that if you could get Orchid's Resveratrol capped and bottled, people would buy it... Including myself.

#7 tintinet

  • Location:ME

Posted 18 February 2007 - 05:13 PM

Unfortunately, Orchid, it now appears, will not sell its resveratrol for such purposes (human ingestion).

#8 maxwatt

  • Guest, Moderator LeadNavigator
  • 4,938 posts
  • 1,612
  • Location:New York

Posted 18 February 2007 - 05:47 PM

Max - not sure if you are looking to go "into business"..  But I'm sure that if you could get Orchid's Resveratrol capped and bottled, people would buy it...  Including myself.


I'm still deciding. But this couldn't be done with Orchid.

Orchid resveratrol is excellent. It is also difficult to cap because of the crystalline structure formed in their drying process. When compressed, it tends to rebound, "leaping" out of the capsule. Another batch from Orchid, dried more slowly, or at a different temperature and pressure, could have a very different crystalline structure and physical appearance. But that is moot, because it does not appear to be available in this country in quantity, and because it is a synthetic, and would not be considered an herbal supplement by the FDA. I've also obtained two different batches of 98% resveratrol extract, which has tested out pure, little or no detectable cis-resveratrol, heavy metals below detectable limits. This has a finer grain crystal, and packs very well. More important, it is an herbal product. Hu Zhang (Polygonum cuspidatum) has been used for millennia, and has been sold in U.S. Chinatowns for over a century. In 80 to 90% concentrations (which I can also obtain) it should be FDA allowable if properly labeled and will have very little emodin. Maybe the FDA will even allow 98%. Using higher concentrations is the only way I've found to get larger doses of resveratrol with a low amount of emodin from the herbal source. I prefer capsules to powders, and I'm sure many others would rather take a pill than measure and swallow dry powder, or mix with oil or alcohol and drink that.

Any feedback is appreciated.

(spelling corrections made)

Edited by maxwatt, 18 February 2007 - 09:59 PM.


#9 tom a

  • Guest
  • 121 posts
  • 0

Posted 18 February 2007 - 06:23 PM

maxwatt,

The higher purity product you are proposing sounds very appealing, and would no doubt find the sweet spot of the developing market for resveratrol.

Orchid I'm sure has a fine product but people seem to have a fixation on it far beyond its actual merits. Brand name means virtually nothing if you're basically buying a chemical. Slight impurities, if they are harmless -- and I can't think of why a herbal extract like this with such a long history should have harmful elements -- should hardly count.

I agree that cutting down on emodin is key here; it's a genuine obstacle to use in high doses.

#10 curious_sle

  • Guest
  • 463 posts
  • 12
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 18 February 2007 - 07:15 PM

What do you all consider high doses? Most emulate the higher dose group on Sirtris' trial which results in low enough amounts for most (at least me) to derive from regular 50%/fairly low emodin supplements like the one i use (country life) or am i wrong?

#11 maxwatt

  • Guest, Moderator LeadNavigator
  • 4,938 posts
  • 1,612
  • Location:New York

Posted 18 February 2007 - 09:52 PM

What do you all consider high doses? Most emulate the higher dose group on Sirtris' trial which results in low enough amounts for most (at least me) to derive from regular 50%/fairly low emodin supplements like the one i use (country life) or am i wrong?

The amount in Sinclair's mouse studies was 20 mg/kg. Using the cube root of the ratio of the masses between man and mouse would work out to an equivalent dose in humans that is about 1/4.3 of the mouse dose, or 4.7 mg/kg. Sinclair has said he uses 5 mg/kg. I weigh 79 kilos. By this approximation an appropriate dose would be 395 mg of resveratrol, or four capsules of Country Life Resveratrol Plus. Given that they state on the label that they are using a 50% extract, emodin unspecified, I assume their extract is between five and 10 percent emodin, probably closer to 10 percent. This would be between 20 and 40 grams of emodin.

I find even 20 grams of emodin to be a laxative, and to cause other gastrointestinal upsets: rumbling, excessive and uncontrollable gas, and discomfort. Forty grams would be much worse. While I've not used Country Life resveratrol yet, some people tell me that they have these problems with it. Others have had no problem or have adjusted.

Some of the papers on resveratrol have noted that there is a linear dose/response relationship: the higher the dose, the stronger the effect. In my case, I noticed some effects, changes I considered desirable, so I increased my dosage and noted the effects were more pronounced. I am not recommending anyone emulate me, but I increased my intake to a gram a day, divided into two doses. This is slightly more than twice Sinclair's amount; note I am considerably older than Sinclair.

There have been toxicity studies done in rodents, that have been discussed elsewhere in this forum. At 1000 mg a day (in rats) there were some slight negative effects. Auwerx' study on rats used 400 mg/kg a day, without adverse effects. This is twenty times what Sinclair's rats were getting. I take this as an upper limit on safety. This is why I believe it is safe for me to take approximately twice the 5 mg/day dose.

There is no way I could get this dose without too much emodin for me to handle, with a product using a 50% extract.

#12 curious_sle

  • Guest
  • 463 posts
  • 12
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 18 February 2007 - 10:11 PM

ok, i take 300mg in three divided doses (each meal) so this gives me arround 5.5mg/kg... not shure i'd want to go higher. I have absolutely no problems thus far with emodin but that could be due to speading consumption.

I can see your reason however. I guess at my age i'd rather not go too much higher :-) and rather try to lever some synergy potential (I also take fo-ti 3 times a day 560mg).

#13 tintinet

  • Location:ME

Posted 19 February 2007 - 02:01 AM

What makes you think Fo-ti may be particularly synergistic with resveratrol?

I take many herbal supplements, including low dose Fo-ti, only because it's
included in a blended supplement.

#14 rfarris

  • Guest
  • 462 posts
  • 7
  • Location:32° 56' 26" 117° 01' 22"

Posted 19 February 2007 - 03:53 PM

While I've not used Country Life resveratrol yet, some people tell me that they have these problems with it.  Others have had no problem or have adjusted.

There is no way I could get this dose without too much emodin for me to handle, with a product using a 50% extract.

I tried 400mg of Country Life resveratrol and ended up with a very sore, well, you know. Even at 200mg I have a lot of gas. I've been at 200mg for about three weeks. I hope I get adjusted to it.

#15 curious_sle

  • Guest
  • 463 posts
  • 12
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 19 February 2007 - 05:25 PM

It is pure speculation, i did take it already for a while. I suspect it's a more potent SIRT1 activator, but it's only a suspicion based on it's reputation in Chinese medicine. One major venue of it's action seems to be it ups SOD/CAT a bit.

Well, it's fairly inexpensive, has been used for a very long time and might help. who knows. (no good base for a decision eh?)

#16 maxwatt

  • Guest, Moderator LeadNavigator
  • 4,938 posts
  • 1,612
  • Location:New York

Posted 19 February 2007 - 05:29 PM

What makes you think Fo-ti may be particularly synergistic with resveratrol?

I take many herbal supplements, including low dose Fo-ti, only because it's
included in a blended supplement.

Fo Ti contains a resveratrol analogue, the stilbene rings are in a planar alignment which is necessary for SIRT1 activation, there is an OH in the 4' position, another requirement. It has an extra OH at the 2 position, I think, which doesn't interfere with SIRT1, and is glycosylated on the A ring, which should make it water soluble. So it's plausible, but no one knows.

I tried 400mg of Country Life resveratrol and ended up with a very sore, well, you know. Even at 200mg I have a lot of gas. I've been at 200mg for about three weeks. I hope I get adjusted to it.

If you haven't noted an improvement by now, I don't think it will get better. :(

#17 stephen_b

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,661 posts
  • 196

Posted 19 February 2007 - 07:03 PM

Back on the topic of Doctor's Best (ahem), I received this reply in response to my inquiry about the Consumer Labs finding:

Dear Stephen,

Thank you for your interest in Doctor's Best products. The
product you are referring to has since been taken out of our product line
and the necessary steps have been taken with the supplier of the bulk
material. All lots were re-tested and we followed the quality control
rules that have been set up to assure that there was never any danger to
any of our customers. As soon as the consumer labs report came out, we
simply removed the product from our line to have time to investigate
the claim. We are now working on an updated product, which will be on the
market by the end of this year.

Sincerely,
Doctor's Best
Customer Service


Stephen

#18 chrisp2

  • Guest
  • 163 posts
  • 2
  • Location:Seattle, WA

Posted 22 February 2007 - 02:05 AM

I just heard that LEF's 100mg product has 2.57mg of emodin per capsule.

Is anyone taking it?

#19 stephen_b

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,661 posts
  • 196

Posted 26 February 2007 - 10:13 PM

I just heard that LEF's 100mg product has 2.57mg of emodin per capsule.

Is anyone taking it?

Is this the product? Grapeseed Extract with Resveratrol 100 mg actually only contains 20 mg resveratrol, and it's not clear to me whether that's transresveratrol.

Stephen

#20 health_nutty

  • Guest
  • 2,399 posts
  • 89
  • Location:California

Posted 27 February 2007 - 05:07 AM

ok, i take 300mg in three divided doses (each meal) so this gives me arround 5.5mg/kg... not shure i'd want to go higher. I have absolutely no problems thus far with emodin but that could be due to speading consumption.

I can see your reason however. I guess at my age i'd rather not go too much higher :-) and rather try to lever some synergy potential (I also take fo-ti 3 times a day 560mg).


Fo-ti is also supposed to be a laxative. Any issues with that dosage?

#21 maxwatt

  • Guest, Moderator LeadNavigator
  • 4,938 posts
  • 1,612
  • Location:New York

Posted 27 February 2007 - 05:17 AM

Fo-ti is also supposed to be a laxative.  Any issues with that dosage?


Unprocessed Fo Ti is a laxative, it contains emodin. the Chinese have a method for removing it, by boiling the root in a liquid that is derived from black beans (maybe the soaking liquid, when cooking black beans?). The processed Fo Ti is a non-laxative. It contains a resveratrol analog according to Chinese researchers.

#22 chrisp2

  • Guest
  • 163 posts
  • 2
  • Location:Seattle, WA

Posted 27 February 2007 - 05:18 PM

No...

This is the product.

Resveratrol [100 mg trans-resveratrol and its glucosides 100 mg
from whole red grape (Vitis vinifera) and Polygonum

cuspidatum (root) extract]
Quercetin (as quercetin dihydrate) 120 mg

Expensive compared to others, but 2.57mg of Emodin... That is nice to have clearly defined by LEF.

#23 stephen_b

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,661 posts
  • 196

Posted 27 February 2007 - 05:43 PM

Thanks. This product actually doesn't appear in the results if you search for 'resveratrol' at LEF. It's interesting that they include 120 mg quercetin with the resveratrol.

Stephen

#24 health_nutty

  • Guest
  • 2,399 posts
  • 89
  • Location:California

Posted 27 February 2007 - 06:06 PM

Fo-ti is also supposed to be a laxative.  Any issues with that dosage?


Unprocessed Fo Ti is a laxative, it contains emodin. the Chinese have a method for removing it, by boiling the root in a liquid that is derived from black beans (maybe the soaking liquid, when cooking black beans?). The processed Fo Ti is a non-laxative. It contains a resveratrol analog according to Chinese researchers.


Do you know if all (or most) extracts are processed this way?

#25 rfarris

  • Guest
  • 462 posts
  • 7
  • Location:32° 56' 26" 117° 01' 22"

Posted 27 February 2007 - 06:18 PM

Expensive compared to others, but 2.57mg of Emodin...  That is nice to have clearly defined by LEF.

I couldn't find the emodin quantity on that page. Where is it quantified?

#26 Anthony_Loera

  • Life Member
  • 3,130 posts
  • 714
  • Location:Miami Florida

Posted 27 February 2007 - 07:47 PM

Ask them for the Certificate of Analysis... do they have one?

Anthony Loera
RevGenetics

#27 conway

  • Guest
  • 5 posts
  • 0

Posted 27 February 2007 - 08:11 PM

I just heard that LEF's 100mg product has 2.57mg of emodin per capsule.

Is anyone taking it?

Is this the product? Grapeseed Extract with Resveratrol 100 mg actually only contains 20 mg resveratrol, and it's not clear to me whether that's transresveratrol.

Stephen


It is probably this product rather. This is the one I am using at 300mg (breakfast/lunch/supper X 100mg dose). Nothing to report so far. I have plenty of energy but did so too before I started. I have been taking this for a week at this level. Was taking only minutes amount before as part of a multi-vitamin. The product should countain 100mg of res per cap.

#28 Anthony_Loera

  • Life Member
  • 3,130 posts
  • 714
  • Location:Miami Florida

Posted 27 February 2007 - 08:56 PM

Ask them for the Certificate of Analysis... do they have one?

Anthony Loera
RevGenetics


Does your "partner" exist?


Why yes, and... but the reason I was asking about the COA is simply because, I personally have sent everyone who asked me for a COA, our current batch Resveratrol COA...

I believe others also are not as transparent as RevGenetics.

Case in point: When checking BAC pricing on powder as we are checking competition pricing, I asked BAC for a COA, and got a 'translation' of the COA, not a real one.

If RevGenetics is held to a higher standard than our competitors, so be it. But please keep that in mind when shopping around.

Thanks again
Anthony Loera
RevGenetics

#29 niner

  • Guest
  • 16,276 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 27 February 2007 - 09:17 PM

If RevGenetics is held to a higher standard than our competitors, so be it.


OOOHHHH! The Humanity!!

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#30 Anthony_Loera

  • Life Member
  • 3,130 posts
  • 714
  • Location:Miami Florida

Posted 27 February 2007 - 09:28 PM

OOOHHHH!  The Humanity!!



[lol]




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users