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The Most Hated Family In America


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#1 Live Forever

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 10:17 AM


Louis Theroux spent time with the Phelps family and the Westboro Baptist Church. (The ones that protest at funerals of dead soldiers with signs that say "God Hates Fags", "Thank God For WMDs", "Thank God for 9/11" and other nonsense like that) There was a BBC documentary produced of the time spent with the family.

Here is the documentary:

Edited by Live Forever, 28 August 2007 - 07:51 PM.


#2 Live Forever

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 10:17 AM

If anyone is unfamiliar with the family, here is the interview with Shirley Phelps on Hannity and Colmes:



Embedded:


Edited by Live Forever, 28 August 2007 - 07:51 PM.


#3 futureofscience

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 10:30 AM

I watched this when it was shown and so did a lot of my friends. It was quite interesting to see more about them, having been directed to some of their websites before. But I think it also exposed just how ridiculous they are, especially the bit where Louis was talking to Fred Phelps, who was clearly agitated by being asked questions that show him up to be rather stupid.

But well worth a watch.

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#4 Live Forever

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 11:56 AM

Here are the post documentary thoughts on the family by Louis Theroux:
http://news.bbc.co.u...ine/6507971.stm


I think just calling them crazy and moving on is dishonest intellectually. It seems as though they are more or less brain washed from birth to believe this nonsense. (a given I suppose) I can see how this could be done with just about anyone who was raised in such an environment. Out of the 13 children that Fred Phelps had, 4 have "fallen away" and left the church, which shows that some people can indeed break the hold of this type of teaching, but the fact that 9 stayed shows it is hard.

I felt most sorry for that one girl that Louis was following around some which is in college but doesn't want to associate with anyone outside of the church, or have a boyfriend, or anything else because she thinks the world is ending soon and it would be pointless.

#5 basho

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 12:53 PM

This is the first video I have seen of this sociopathic cult and its psychopathic leader.

These people are being indoctrinated with a belief system that eliminates their empathy towards those outside of their own small group. There is danger in the fact that they are being trained to hate, and especially that they to believe that the death of people outside of their religion is something very good, something to rejoice over because it is the divine will of God. This is definitely sociopathic behavior or a narrow form of psychopathy. One of the symptoms of psychopathy is: "... a person having no concerns for the feelings of others and a complete disregard for any sense of social obligation. They seem egocentric and lack insight of any sense of responsibility or consequence." I wonder if the leader will do what similar cult leaders have done in the past and force the suicide of his family at some point if he feels threatened?

Pity that the young kids have no escape from this life of religious brainwashing. Unfortunately, apart from their more extreme religious views and actions, they'd be considered a model American family.

#6 Mind

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 02:21 PM

Hmmm? I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said "Bush is Satan" (I've also seen "Bush is evil" and "Bush is Hitler"). Maybe the Bush family is the most hated in America. Seems that way sometimes.

#7 niner

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 04:08 PM

I don't doubt that those bumper stickers exist. I've certainly seen a lot of pro-bush bumper stickers. Quite a few more than anti, for that matter. I don't think that the Bush family is hated much at all, but it occurred to me the other day that GW Bush may be the most hated person in the world today. I don't say that in a gloating way, more in the vein of sadness. It's a tragedy, really. I almost feel sorry for him, except that his psychology probably prevents him from recognising the fact. Can anyone think of a person alive today who is disliked by more total people than Bush?

#8 biologic

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 07:57 PM

I think just calling them crazy and moving on is dishonest intellectually.


What would you consider 'honest' intellectually in this case? There really is nothing that you can do because they aren't breaking the law, and any attempt to "call them names" would prove futile -- they have already seen it all and are not a bit offened. What should we do? Send them letters? Any true neurologically satisfying way of getting under their skin would be illegal. Dismissing their ideas would be the most satisfactory way to deal with them, in my opinion. Even if the case arrived where you were face to face with one of their "pastors", what would a screaming argument solve? More resentment and hatred would arise.

What I really mean to say is that you should just deal with them as you would deal with any other chrisitian who you disagree with: calm, collected and sharp.

I see how angry this type of propaganda can make a person (including myself) become :) . I just think that screaming and yelling at them is exactly what they want -- attention. Ditch this BS forever (here comes my emotional side [huh] ).

#9 JohnDoe1234

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 11:30 PM

I remember watching that interview on Hannity and Colmes a while back... That blows my mind, I am not one who usually wishes death on people, but… I think that once grandpa dies, things will be a little looser around there, maybe even enough so that a few more can escape :)

#10 Live Forever

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 11:19 PM

One of the best speeches I have ever seen on why freedom of speech (and specifically freedom of speech from "crazy" or fringe groups is good for everyone, and should be protected) comes from Christopher Hitchens:


Powerful. I especially agree with the thought that these crazy type groups are good for the reflection upon ourselves. Just wow.

Glad you liked it. Although I disagree with Hitchens on some things (the war in Iraq being one), he is a powerful and persuasive speaker in my mind, and his views on religion, free speech, and a variety of other topics are quite agreeable to me.


I remember watching that interview on Hannity and Colmes a while back... That blows my mind, I am not one who usually wishes death on people, but… I think that once grandpa dies, things will be a little looser around there, maybe even enough so that a few more can escape  :)

One would hope that to be the case. You don't want to say that there are some people that shouldn't be allowed to partake of extreme life extension when it becomes available, but perhaps as a society we would be better off if they did not.

#11 niner

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 02:04 AM

One would hope that to be the case. You don't want to say that there are some people that shouldn't be allowed to partake of extreme life extension when it becomes available, but perhaps as a society we would be better off if they did not.

At the moment, we subject some people to extreme life reduction... Something tells me that in the future, there will be some people who will not be allowed to partake of extreme life extension.

#12 JohnDoe1234

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 03:09 AM

Prison inmates.

#13 Live Forever

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 03:14 AM

Prison inmates.


One of the very first threads I ever started here was on that:
http://www.imminst.o...t=ST&f=3&t=7052

#14 william7

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 05:38 PM

I watched all the videos with great interest. The Phelps family's primary focus on an rabid anti-homosexual agenda was obviously done in an unchristian spirit. I suspect their primary motive was a result of a noticeable increase in donations received due to their hard line approach to homosexuality from certain segments of the public who are seriously concerned about the rise of homosexuality as reported in the news media and portrayed in Hollywood entertainment.

Just as we have pseudoscience motivated by money, we also have pseudoreligion motivated for the same reason. This is why I'm for abolishing money as a motivator of human behavior and living communally as all serious Christians need to in order to practice their religion consistently and successfully. See http://www.imminst.o...70&t=15317&st=0.

This doesn't mean that I believe the Phelps family is not redeemable and should be denied extreme life extension. They just need to repent and change their behavior like anyone else - including prisoners in correctional facilities. Once radical life extension is made available in a communal setting and people see the need to make the necessary changes to obtain it, I'm sure most will change accordingly.

#15 JohnDoe1234

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 06:54 PM

True elijah, but pseudo-science doesn't prevent children from making friends, getting boy/girlfriends, and being a partof the rest of the world, psuedo science doesn't terrify children into secluding themselves from the world... There is no way that you can compare this to psuedo science...

Pseudo-science = plain old, calm, and loving religion.

Phelps family = psuedo-science's methodology + psychotic, religion-induced harmful cult.

You see psuedo-scientists selling magnetic rings, not convincing their children that they are going to hell. The mere fact that religion allows trash like this to happen is yet another reason why it should be eliminated from the world.

You don't see people running into crowded buildings and screaming: "In the name of science!" and then blowing up... Religion is no good, and this is simple more proof, there is no way that you can even begin to compare this to simple psuedo-science. you can't have a psuedo-psuedo-beleive or methodology, it doesn't work that way.

And Elijah, religion is almost always motivated by money, who has the most extravagant church, who can have the nicest stain-glass windows, and what preacher can have the most houses and cars... You see it everywhere, every couple of months you hear about corrupt religious leaders on the news.

#16 william7

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 09:23 PM

No offense josephjah, but your absolutely wrong on this point. The only reason I attempt to correct you on this is in order to steer you in the right direction; so don't take this offensively.

Have you ever heard of what psychiatry has done in the name of medicine? They ruined relationships and reputations through the pseudo labeling and stigmatizing of people. Have you ever heard of Marxian science? These Marxist communists in the name of their science and atheism have killed millions as lunarsolarpower aptly points out in his post at http://www.imminst.o...20. And how did they commit all those murders? With bombs and guns made by chemists and other scientists. I believe I could come up with more examples if thought about it awhile.

Even if the false practitioners of religion are responsible for more evil in the world, this is all the more reason we need to educate them to a better understanding of the Scriptures in order to put a stop to all this madness once and for all. Wouldn't you agree?

You're a young person with a lot of life ahead of you. My advice to you is tha you should study the Bible and communal living. You should think about getting in a program like Living Routes.

#17 JohnDoe1234

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 11:16 PM

Elijah, thanks for your reply (and no, as long as our argument remains that of ideology and not personality nothing will be taken to offense), but I don't see how you think that I am wrong to any degree on this point.

Marxian Science isn't a point to be held valid for this argument at all. Science is merely a way to gather factual knowledge. It is completely neutral, it has no agenda, this is easily proved by watching chemicals react, they react the same way each time, they are not racist, they do not have feelings toward each other... they simply trade subatomic particles as needed. There is nothing about science that is inherently good or evil, anyone can abuse anyone can abuse any knowledge, These atrocities would have been attempted on other scales had it not been for the convenience of the "bomb" it is that fault of the person who misuses technology, not the engineer or scientist (unless they freely do this to harm people).

Religion on the other hand has an agenda, and makes claims of things that have happened, and will happen, and since they are packaged so nicely, people just eat them right up. Religion is not neutral, and it does not have the benefit of proof.

People who use technology to intentionally harm people are bad to begin with
People who use scripture in sincere belief that they are right, and harm people... are delusional, and need help as do the people who abuse technology to their own gains

Elijah, we have to remember, that technology can be misused by everyone... from atheists, to Muslims, to Christians... where do you think the Phelps family got their nice little computers in that computer room? how do you think they got to their pickets? I liken technology to breathing, everyone can utilize it, if you can't breath as wells someone, you can't beat them in a race, and if you use your superior ability to breath to win a fight against someone with asthma it's not your superior ability to breath that is to blame, it is your merciless attitude.

Even if the false practitioners of religion are responsible for more evil in the world, this is all the more reason we need to educate them to a better understanding of the Scriptures in order to put a stop to all this madness once and for all. Wouldn't you agree?

If we got everyone in the entire world to subscribe to the exact same belief, then yes, we would all be happy and dandy for a long, long time, but... if this belief was religious... we would also be giving up our ability to freely learn, to conduct research without bias, and to see things unhindered

You're a young person with a lot of life ahead of you. My advice to you is tha you should study the Bible and communal living. You should think about getting in a program like Living Routes.

Well, I hope so! and I wish the same for you!

But as for the bible study... I was raised a Christian and I remember trying very hard to make the whole "feeling god's love" thing to work... but I ditched that for something more substantial, I ditched the bible for something that I could simply look at the bottom of the paper and see where the information came from and how it was collected...

And Living Routes, I think it would be fun... but I am saving up money to study Physics abroad in Austria or Germany someday, I think that it would slightly more productive, but yes... the communal living thing would be educational experience for everyone.

EDIT: Spelling

Edited by josephjah, 09 April 2007 - 09:23 PM.


#18 Live Forever

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 12:06 AM

Awesome video. Awesome.

Unfortunately the original videos were taken down. I assume you mean the Hitchens one...

Edit: Split the Hitchen stuff to its own thread: http://www.imminst.o...=179&t=15900&s=

#19 Live Forever

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 04:30 AM

Note: I changed the second post in this thread to be the actual video of the program on Google Vids since it was taken down from YouTube.

#20 Live Forever

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 12:26 AM

God Hates the World Music Video by Westboro Church:
http://my.break.com/...ontentID=278059

#21 amar

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 01:11 AM

Many Christians seem to depict God as nothing but nice, though I guess they just mean Jesus. The God that surrounds Jesus in the bible is the God of wrath though, and not such a pretty read. I'm not full of hate like they are, but I'll probably just play 1000 blank white cards with fellow Discordians 'till the shit goes down.

#22 Zarrka

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 05:58 AM

but even biblically jesus is not really loving when it comes to the day of vengence. he said his robes will be red with the blood of those he crushed, and if you try and beg forgivness on the day of vengence then he will not hear you.

so much for jesus being the love sector.

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 10:24 PM

> but even biblically jesus is not really loving when it comes to the day of vengence. he said his robes will be red with the blood of those he crushed, and if you try and beg forgivness on the day of vengence then he will not hear you.

I strongly discount those things which were not (allegedly) spoken by Jesus himself. Mystical visions can be very confusing and untrustworthy needless to say, and second or third hand accounts of mystical visions even more so. I'm sure there are counter-examples, but on the whole, I have the impression that the actual teachings that Jesus himself spoke (at least as it has been documented in the bible) were surprisingly humane and even modern in many aspects. His teachings are especially striking in this regard when put in contrast with the prevailing violence and barbarity (c.f. ancient judaism, and ancient and modern islam) that has dominated that part of the world both before and after him.

#24 Zarrka

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 10:32 PM

ahh ok. so you are one who picks and chooses from what you want to take from The Bible. If you believe the bible at all, you should be able to concieve that when God sends visions and one writes them down, or passes them along, then God would also be able to make sure the information stays intact. The same argument about accuracy through generational gaps could be used for most of the old testemont as well. If you want to take some versions of Jesus's transcribed teachings, then you should be committed to using all of what the bible says. if the book is what it claims to be then the authors are God inspired, and im not sure how that leaves much room for error.

#25

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 10:59 PM

> ahh ok. so you are one who picks and chooses from what you want to take from The Bible.

I choose what seems reasonable and useful too me, and disregard the rest. This is the same as I would do with any book. I see no reason why, when I read a book - whether its the bible or any other - that I must necessarily believe either all or nothing.

> if the book is what it claims to be then the authors are God inspired, and im not sure how that leaves much room for error.

Its almost certainly not what it claims to be, but that doesn't mean that it contains nothing useful, nor does it mean that Jesus wasn't an exceptional human being with a moral sense that far outstripped most of his peers in that region and time, or even the vast majority of people living today.

#26 Zarrka

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 11:10 PM

fair enough. That’s a reasonable answer. So, you don’t use it as *the* source of all religious information, instead you use what you think is helpful and discard those things that are not. and that is fair enough. I guess it is a very moralist approach to the bible, which is fine as long as you are not affiliated with any church, im not sure they would like it so much lol

Anyway i also found this.. the Chaser talking about these westbro people. thought it might amuse some :)


http://www.youtube.c...rqvKp0TzaY&NR=1

Embedded:



Edit by Live Forever: Embedded the video for you

#27 Live Forever

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 11:13 PM

http://www.youtube.c...rqvKp0TzaY&NR=1

Yeah, that is a funny one. I have seen it before, but it is hilarious to watch again.


Another news story on these crazies:
http://www.miaminewt...s/god-hates-you
holding up signs at a churches that say things too vulgar for me to even put in quotes here.

Geez, these people are nuts.

#28 Zarrka

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 11:15 PM

"Tell them about the miracle of the $1000- seed.."

http://www.youtube.c...related&search=

(and ty liveforever for embedding that vid for me... how do you do that btw..?)

#29 Live Forever

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 11:18 PM

Yeah, these have all been posted in the funny religious videos thread, but they are funny to see again.

(and ty liveforever for embedding that vid for me... how do you do that btw..?)

http://www.imminst.o...=177&t=13725&s=

#30 Zarrka

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 11:19 PM

bah that would be aegist. kk ill stop posting them now and go troll that thread instead.




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