Adverts help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.
Are you a rational egoist?
#31
Posted 12 April 2007 - 02:44 AM
With that said:
In my experience, single and multiple perspectives are as useful as they are close to actuality, and this is also dependent on the ability for them to be able to accept new information.
I do think that the best perspective that one may have at any particular moment is a mindset of 'I don't know' as it accommodates for every possibility. It puts a stop to the upfront filtering process of selective memory.
#32
Posted 12 April 2007 - 02:58 AM
You could utilize a number of perspectives/angels and still looking or trying to look for one thing (or two which is not a lot).elija3 Even though my dominant perspective on life is the Bible, I utilize a number of perspectives when I filter content as you say. I believe this makes me more versatile and increases my ability to adapt.
Concentration/focus in one thing at a time sometimes is 'good' but not when that thing is inexistent (rationally concluded being so).
#33
Posted 12 April 2007 - 04:38 AM
While socialism spreads through Latin America, I think to myself "Ayn Rand is rolling in her grave!" I thought the same thing when I tried to watch "What the Bleep Do We Know!?" a second time. Oh, and when I hear someone praise Web 2.0 and the "wisdom of the crowd". And when I read comments on Digg.com. And when I go to Digg.com at all.
When I think angrily about someone who has pissed me off, I keep hearing Howard Roark's voice in my head: "But I don't think of you."
I recently told the other members of our transhumanist club that I was using them selfishly, and when they started laughing I was a little annoyed because I thought I was serious.
It is hard not being the ideal man, but it would be suicide to stop trying.
$
sponsored ad
#34
Posted 12 April 2007 - 05:23 AM
So I know that Ayn Rand is dead, and that she cheated on her husband, oh, and also that she was really naive, but much of my day is spent wondering "What would Ayn Rand do?" and then beating myself up for wondering that and then standing naked on cliffs.
While socialism spreads through Latin America, I think to myself "Ayn Rand is rolling in her grave!" I thought the same thing when I tried to watch "What the Bleep Do We Know!?" a second time. Oh, and when I hear someone praise Web 2.0 and the "wisdom of the crowd". And when I read comments on Digg.com. And when I go to Digg.com at all.
When I think angrily about someone who has pissed me off, I keep hearing Howard Roark's voice in my head: "But I don't think of you."
I recently told the other members of our transhumanist club that I was using them selfishly, and when they started laughing I was a little annoyed because I thought I was serious.
It is hard not being the ideal man, but it would be suicide to stop trying.
$
Richard, can you speak at my wedding? [lol]
#35
Posted 12 April 2007 - 06:09 AM
Richard, can you speak at my wedding? [lol]
If you speak at mine, in Massachusetts or Canada, or at my civil union, in Vermont, Connecticut, or New Jersey.
#36 Guest_ato abe_*
Posted 12 April 2007 - 06:48 PM
So I know that Ayn Rand is dead, and that she cheated on her husband, oh, and also that she was really naive, but much of my day is spent wondering "What would Ayn Rand do?" and then beating myself up for wondering that and then standing naked on cliffs.
While socialism spreads through Latin America, I think to myself "Ayn Rand is rolling in her grave!" I thought the same thing when I tried to watch "What the Bleep Do We Know!?" a second time. Oh, and when I hear someone praise Web 2.0 and the "wisdom of the crowd". And when I read comments on Digg.com. And when I go to Digg.com at all.
When I think angrily about someone who has pissed me off, I keep hearing Howard Roark's voice in my head: "But I don't think of you."
I recently told the other members of our transhumanist club that I was using them selfishly, and when they started laughing I was a little annoyed because I thought I was serious.
It is hard not being the ideal man, but it would be suicide to stop trying.
$
hear hear!
#37
Posted 13 April 2007 - 01:42 PM
cnorwood: It will be fleeting. The difference between what is and what you think is will create conflict and strife that would not have been there otherwise. You will also be less able to adapt and learn from your environment due to filtering content through a false perspective. This will create more and more conflict as time goes on, and whatever contentment you once had will be crippled. You can postpone the realization by seclusion, but in the end, castles made of sand...
Hhmmm, not to argue for irrationality, but I do see things somewhat differently. The choice between *thinking* and *doing* is quite the conundrum, and the utility of this choice is not always clear cut.
Regarding the highly abstract form of irrationality present with religious mind sets, it is hard to deny that there are innumerable examples of religious individuals who are extremely successful members of society and go through their entire lives without having their perspective "cracked" open by reality. This could be seen as indicative of a few things, namely:
(a) Like Russell’s tea pot, many religious tenets are not falsifiable. The practical utility of these notions is neutral and their only functional purpose is to preserve the integrity of the memeplex.
(b) All of the major world religions have evolved for thousands of years. They are survivors, resisting and/or adapting to empirical challenges (literal vs metaphorical interpretations of Genesis).
© With resistance to challenges (eg, Creationism), there is no upper limit on the level of cognitive dissonance that can be endured because (1) falsification always contains a degree of uncertainty that can be clung to and (2) faith contains the heuristic that cognitive dissonance is actually a desirable condition (ie, “this is a test of one’s faith” “he’s taking a great leap of faith”). The more difficult it is to reconcile one’s beliefs with reality, the greater one’s “faith”. If faith is a primary value, then the integrity of the memeplex is maintained.
The three points that I’ve made above are all based on the premise that possessing a standard religious mind set is selectively neutral. Yet the argument could also be made that religion, and the faith that produces it, are net positives in terms of their practical utility.
Possessing a psychology that utilizes the concept of *faith* to artificially inflate confidence levels in what constitutes the actual nature of a "higher order reality" can greatly reduce, if not outright eliminate, the need to commit to the activity of abstract reasoning. By not being "worried warts" [lol] individuals can dedicate themselves much more fully to accomplishing the mundane objectives of their day to day lives.
I suspect however that, even though you were addressing comments I made about religious irrationality, what you had in mind was the various types of cognitive bias that can have a negative impact on practical utility. In this regard I am in total agreement with you. Most of the cognitive bias I witness with those around me in my personal life I lump under the heading of “wishful thinking”.
The desire to achieve one’s goals can be corrupting. Making legitimate progress towards a goal brings with it the emotional state of happiness. Unfortunately humans crave happiness so much that they often unconsciously try to cheat the process. This is one of the reasons I often caution against happiness for its own sake. (While I write this I am thinking of someone in particular I care for a great deal, but who also frustrates the shit out of me [lol] ) The switcheroo comes by falsely believing that a goal has been accomplished or, more often, by having an unwarranted high degree of confidence that a goal will be accomplished (such as by being overly confident in one’s abilities or making light of/disregarding the obstacles one is facing).
Like you’ve mentioned, sometimes reality will step in and the walls will come crashing down. More often what happens is small set backs, small “flashes of reality”, that gradually revise the original strategy to what it should have been in the first place. I have found, based on personal anecdotal evidence, that neither outcome makes a dent in the cognitive bias of wishful thinking. Of course, I am sure that “learning your lesson” will vary from individual to individual, but I do not believe “self-debugging” of this type of bias is common. The personal instances I have in mind involve individuals who are very intelligent, so I can only imagine how improbable it would be for the average Joe to change his ways. In order to make the necessary improvements, one would have to be rather perceptive about their own psychology and this requires a level of introspection that most people do not possess.
Lacking the ability to be introspective is particularly the case for the individual I’m considering - a frenetic extrovert, a bundle of pent up creative energy that is constantly looking to make things happen. Instead of going with a more targeted approach, a “scatter shot” strategy is adopted. And, as a matter of probability, successes do occur. The successes are then glorified and the failures conveniently forgotten. Is this a recipe for disaster? Quite possibly, but when even major set backs are rationalized as “meant to be” can you really ever see this perspective changing its ways?
The example I gave above is a bit extreme but as I stated earlier, I think there is a fundamental choice between *thinking* and *doing*. Different dispositions will be more prone to one over the other. In past discussions Lazarus Long pointed out that taking swift action is often vital to evolutionary fitness. A predator is approaching. Sit around for too long pondering the best route of escape and you’re lunch meat. Depending on the circumstance the ratio varies between action (which provides a chance of success) and analysis (which increases the certainty of success). But at some point action must be taken - and in a natural setting, usually the sooner the better.
So, the thinking/doing dilemma is always present, even for the most rational individuals. The *moment of decision* when action is taken will contain a degree of uncertainty (ie, “a leap of faith”). The rationality of the decision depends on whether the individual is consciously aware that uncertainty exists.
I do think that the best perspective that one may have at any particular moment is a mindset of 'I don't know' as it accommodates for every possibility. It puts a stop to the upfront filtering process of selective memory.
Indeed, Socratic wisdom is the corner stone of all rational perspectives.
#38
Posted 13 April 2007 - 04:58 PM
So I know that Ayn Rand is dead, and that she cheated on her husband, oh, and also that she was really naive, but much of my day is spent wondering "What would Ayn Rand do?" and then beating myself up for wondering that and then standing naked on cliffs.
Ayn Rand, ppfftt...
Not that I subscribe to the opinion that the mainstream view is always the correct view but it should be noted that neither the Oxford, Cambridge or Standford references make even a passing mention of Objectivism.
#39
Posted 13 April 2007 - 06:19 PM
Ayn Rand, ppfftt...
Not that I subscribe to the opinion that the mainstream view is always the correct view but it should be noted that neither the Oxford, Cambridge or Standford references make even a passing mention of Objectivism.
She really is just a science fiction author with a naive pretend philosophy who snorted a few too many dollar bills (you know, those have cocaine dust on them). Hey, she is just like L. Ron Hubbard!
#40
Posted 13 April 2007 - 06:33 PM
Yeah, compartmentalization can keep a belief from creating havoc in everyday life, but when it comes to that area of thought, the outcomes of having that belief can be disastrous. This is especially the case if someone uses it to manipulate a person or group, such as gaining support for wars, genocide, oppression, what-have-you.
The same mechanism that holds a neutral belief is one that holds non-neutral belief. I see one as promoting the other. Although I think one can manage to be successful, in the world of capital and power, it is not a way to be happy individually or promote healthy group dynamics.
Yet the argument could also be made that religion, and the faith that produces it, are net positives in terms of their practical utility.
I think that the positives could be and would be produced without the belief. One reason it is so easy to attach 'truth' to a particular religious belief is because parts of it correlates with the 'truth' one already has. I think Dawkins argues this point effectively.
Possessing a psychology that utilizes the concept of *faith* to artificially inflate confidence levels in what constitutes the actual nature of a "higher order reality" can greatly reduce, if not outright eliminate, the need to commit to the activity of abstract reasoning. By not being "worried warts" biggrin.gif individuals can dedicate themselves much more fully to accomplishing the mundane objectives of their day to day lives.
As for those not capable, they may have to be slaves (I do not truly know). Although there are a sizable amount of people that are capable, and to me it seems the biggest crime. It also seems as if they do some of the most damage as well.
wishful thinking
The wishful thinking bias seems to work in a similar manner. It makes one try to enforce 'what should be' on top of 'what is' without laying out "what can be", this can create a hell of a lot of conflict.
#41
Posted 14 April 2007 - 02:02 PM
It's still my firm belief that a fully and properly developed religious mind will prove to be superior when it comes to adapting to stress, maintaining health and achieving longevity. People of the future will need a more comprehensive and versatile psyche to adapt more readily to the new, communal environment it will take to progress safely and harmoniously into the future.Technosophy,
Yeah, compartmentalization can keep a belief from creating havoc in everyday life, but when it comes to that area of thought, the outcomes of having that belief can be disastrous. This is especially the case if someone uses it to manipulate a person or group, such as gaining support for wars, genocide, oppression, what-have-you.
The same mechanism that holds a neutral belief is one that holds non-neutral belief. I see one as promoting the other. Although I think one can manage to be successful, in the world of capital and power, it is not a way to be happy individually or promote healthy group dynamics.Yet the argument could also be made that religion, and the faith that produces it, are net positives in terms of their practical utility.
I think that the positives could be and would be produced without the belief. One reason it is so easy to attach 'truth' to a particular religious belief is because parts of it correlates with the 'truth' one already has. I think Dawkins argues this point effectively.Possessing a psychology that utilizes the concept of *faith* to artificially inflate confidence levels in what constitutes the actual nature of a "higher order reality" can greatly reduce, if not outright eliminate, the need to commit to the activity of abstract reasoning. By not being "worried warts" biggrin.gif individuals can dedicate themselves much more fully to accomplishing the mundane objectives of their day to day lives.
As for those not capable, they may have to be slaves (I do not truly know). Although there are a sizable amount of people that are capable, and to me it seems the biggest crime. It also seems as if they do some of the most damage as well.wishful thinking
The wishful thinking bias seems to work in a similar manner. It makes one try to enforce 'what should be' on top of 'what is' without laying out "what can be", this can create a hell of a lot of conflict.
There's nothing prohibiting a fully and properly developed religious mind from thinking abstractly, analytically, and creatively at a level necessary to sustain progress and avoid destruction. The religious men and women of the future will need a highly introspective and integrated psyche in order to practice the very high degree of caring and sharing it will take to be successful in daily life.
I strongly believe there's a psychological and spiritual danger to excessive analyizing, rationalizing, and intellectualizing that can lead to self-centered egotistical thinking and maladaptive behavior when done in the absence of proper Scriptural guidance. This type of thinking and behavior is hazardous to the psyche and counterproductive to health and longevity in my opinion.
#42
Posted 14 April 2007 - 02:55 PM
Socrates believed in and practiced religion and rationalism together. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates and http://en.wikipedia....rates#Mysticism. I can't see any reason why a future society interested longevity and immortality can't do the same.Indeed, Socratic wisdom is the corner stone of all rational perspectives.
#43
Posted 14 April 2007 - 03:29 PM
Go on
-Inf.
#44
Posted 14 April 2007 - 04:15 PM
Lacking the ability to be introspective is particularly the case for the individual I’m considering - a frenetic extrovert, a bundle of pent up creative energy that is constantly looking to make things happen. Instead of going with a more targeted approach, a “scatter shot” strategy is adopted. And, as a matter of probability, successes do occur. The successes are then glorified and the failures conveniently forgotten. Is this a recipe for disaster? Quite possibly, but when even major set backs are rationalized as “meant to be” can you really ever see this perspective changing its ways?
The example I gave above is a bit extreme but as I stated earlier, I think there is a fundamental choice between *thinking* and *doing*. Different dispositions will be more prone to one over the other. In past discussions Lazarus Long pointed out that taking swift action is often vital to evolutionary fitness. A predator is approaching. Sit around for too long pondering the best route of escape and you’re lunch meat. Depending on the circumstance the ratio varies between action (which provides a chance of success) and analysis (which increases the certainty of success). But at some point action must be taken - and in a natural setting, usually the sooner the better.
So, the thinking/doing dilemma is always present, even for the most rational individuals. The *moment of decision* when action is taken will contain a degree of uncertainty (ie, “a leap of faith”). The rationality of the decision depends on whether the individual is consciously aware that uncertainty exists.
Every second of my life can be described as a leap of faith, if faith were to be described as such.
I do see the balance of thinking and doing. The most important part is the learning after the doing. Someone who uses the scattershot method without realizing which is success and which is failure will not ever progress to better targeting. I have known some people who would do the scattershot, and they would learn what was rewarding and what was not.
#45
Posted 15 April 2007 - 10:15 PM
#46
Posted 16 April 2007 - 04:16 AM
I strongly believe there's a psychological and spiritual danger to excessive analyizing, rationalizing, and intellectualizing that can lead to self-centered egotistical thinking and maladaptive behavior when done in the absence of proper Scriptural guidance. This type of thinking and behavior is hazardous to the psyche and counterproductive to health and longevity in my opinion.
TOOL did say:
"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the line"
but they didn't meantion anything about scriptural guidance....
In fact, on that matter they said:
"Come down, get off the F###ing cross, we need the f###ing space to nail the next fool martyr."
So you tell me if TOOL agrees with you or not.
In any case, it is my firmly held belief that a fully and properly developed TOOL Loving mind will prove to be superior when it comes to adapting to stress, maintaining health and achieving longevity. People of the future will need a more comprehensive and versatile psyche to adapt more readily to the new, communal environment it will take to progress safely and harmoniously into the future.
So, in the eternal wisdom of our gracious brilliance that is TOOL,
"I'm reaching up and reaching out I'm reaching for the random or
whatever will bewilder me whatever will bewilder me and
following my will and wind we may just go where no ones been
we'll ride the spiral til the end, it may just go where no ones been.
Spiral Out. Keep Going.
Spiral Out. Keep Going.
Spiral Out. Keep Going.
Spiral Out. Keep Going."
#47
Posted 16 April 2007 - 04:19 AM
TOOL - (The Book of) - Reflection
I have come curiously close to the end, down
Beneath my self-indulgent pitiful hole.
Defeated,
I concede and move closer. I may find comfort here.
I may find peace within the emptiness. How pitiful.
And it's calling me.
And in my darkest moment, fetal and weeping.
The moon tells me a secret. My confidant.
As full and bright as I am, this light is not my own and
A million light reflections pass over me
It's source is bright and endless.
She resuscitates the hopeless
Without her we are lifeless satellites dreaming dreams
And as I pull my head out I am without one doubt
Don't want to be down here soothing my narcissism
I must crucify the ego before it's far too late
I pray the light lifts me out before I pine away.
So crucify the ego before it's far too late
To leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical
And you will come to find that we are all one mind
Capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable
Just let the light touch you and let the words spill thorough
Just let them pass right through, bringing out our hope and reason.
PS: I voted Yes. Rational egoist, because thats all we have. Our rationalisty, and ourselves. We are never perfect, but if you don't strive for an ideal, you never acheive.
#48
Posted 16 April 2007 - 12:46 PM
-Inf.
#49
Posted 16 April 2007 - 04:38 PM
Rudimentarily, if someone sufficiently distant is approaching the elevator and the elevator door is closing, my thoughts are nonlinguistically about that person and nonlinguistically about a seemingly costless action to reverse the closing. The identity of this whole situation involves me only insofar as I happen to be a mediator. I barely had to represent myself to generate the action, let alone how I would gain from it, for I couldn't care less about the transient if existent respect. Although a simple example, this demonstrates the possibility of a caringness that is projected more outward than inward (when we care about ourselves, it's still a projection, because it's still "about" something).
Let's say we still grant the impossibility of altruism for the reason that we can't conceive it to begin with. That's fine. We are just going to have to give it another definition or just agree to dispose of the arbitrary name entirely, since we can still conceive of the type of caringness with a greater outward projection. In that case, if altruism is without content and we recognize two types of not mutually exclusive caringnesses, rational egoism is, to phrase it one way, the preference that mediators, or minds, exist over their nonexistence. Which is obvious and trivial, to which most of us now probably agree.
Techno, a thought about the reference to The Will to Love, and this could be just repeating what's already been said. As the situations get more complicated, wills to love become indistinguishable from wills to power. Anyone will find it nearly impossible to "love" anyone that doesn't depend on them for anything, including their company that typical present psychologies still savor. As we all "grow up" and people stop having human children, to love will be to force dependencies. But that's not to say that that prospective dilemma doesn't cause me any anguish. . . .
#50
Posted 16 April 2007 - 06:53 PM
(...)that it wasn't possible to project a caringness that was more about the projected and less about the projector and that this was necessarily the meaning of rational egoism
Not quite, I said t is possible, consciously, but subconsciously, that's still what you think as best thing to do because that's what yer "told" of the best action to take in order to help *you* survive, so yeah, quite.
Your interpretation wouldn't even allow the conceptual possibility of an altruist: if one were to ask you how to be an altruist, an answer wouldn't be forthcoming as the mere notion had to be as meaningless as the green meter. But surely we understand what it means to project a caringness that's more about the projected and less about the projector.
Aye, I claim pure altruism can't exist, it's just what most people call ethics, but that too is different in each one's eyes. It is possible to be an altruist, and yet again, subconsciously, that's for yer own good. Of course we know of care that's more about the projected than the projector, consciously.
-Infernity
#51
Posted 16 April 2007 - 07:12 PM
#52
Posted 16 April 2007 - 10:20 PM
Infy, I don't know how much sense we can make of a nonagentive altruist, whose possibility we need to recognize it seems in order to make sense of your criteria. Either that or "God", where questions of survival interests wouldn't enter into it and your causa sui altruism would be coherent. But if we really follow through to what you mean, another way to express what you're saying is that in order to qualify to be an altruist, altruists cannot exist. This is a contradiction in a basic logic: to be an altruist is to be something, and to be something is to exist at some point, which contradicts that altruists can't exist. If we really try to be precise about it, I bet that 'to exist' relates in the same way to all the same things as 'to survive' does. If so, we likely wouldn't associate survival with emotionally charged processes, like we currently don't with existence. And so then at least we wouldn't be tempted to typecast an incoherent concept into an incoherent thought.Aye, I claim pure altruism can't exist, it's just what most people call ethics, but that too is different in each one's eyes. It is possible to be an altruist, and yet again, subconsciously, that's for yer own good. Of course we know of care that's more about the projected than the projector, consciously.
This, of course, will probably convince you only if you'll see that we're talking about the one thing, 'altruism', and not two things, 'altruism' and 'pure altruism'; and we're not talking about two things because I don't see a better reason to play on a contradiction. Hence, the discourse could end up being primarily about how we should manage our ontologies now with their embedded rational egoists to do any managing.
#53
Posted 17 April 2007 - 12:58 PM
eirenicon: Techno, a thought about the reference to The Will to Love, and this could be just repeating what's already been said. As the situations get more complicated, wills to love become indistinguishable from wills to power. Anyone will find it nearly impossible to "love" anyone that doesn't depend on them for anything, including their company that typical present psychologies still savor. As we all "grow up" and people stop having human children, to love will be to force dependencies. But that's not to say that that prospective dilemma doesn't cause me any anguish. . . .
Well Eirenicon, I suppose your perspective is somewhat representative of the point I was trying to make. If one covets developmental isolation for whatever reason (perhaps based on the belief that such a strategy optimizes utility, or on the reservation that presently theoretical levels of conscious intimacy pose a threat to one’s perceived “identity”), then the “affinity for life” or, stated differently, the urge for a communal state of affairs will be lacking. Operating from such a perspective would indeed produce the observation that inter-relationships are forced and ultimately undesirable. For reasons that are themselves without justification I find myself sympathetic to this viewpoint.
But psychologies will differ, and there is no reason to believe that those who currently possess a sophisticated understanding of themselves yet still savor and exalt companionship will cease to embrace their imperatives, or even bootstrap off of them if the opportunity presents itself. For that matter, an inter-relationship doesn’t necessarily imply an incapacity to be self reliant under different circumstances (or attitudes), nor is it indicative of a state of dependence over that of a mutually beneficial arrangement. (Though if we extrapolate things out way past what is probably respectable, the line between the two could begin to blur based on how ardent one is about revving up the process of goal achievement.)
So anyway, I don’t believe I agree that the there is an equivalence between the two wills.
#54
Posted 17 April 2007 - 06:06 PM
Edited by eirenicon, 17 April 2007 - 08:53 PM.
#55
Posted 19 April 2007 - 07:04 AM
I do not strictly associate an affinity for life with the will to love, and here a point of clarification is in order. The concept of companionship is something I grade according to the mutual level of intimacy present. Now, one could entertain the notion of interacting with a wide range of fairly predictable lesser cognitions, culminating with the most extreme relational disparities (potentially) offered by simulation scenarios. The existence of these entities may serve a certain utility (eg, solidifying conceptual models), but I’d categorize them as examples of lower level companionship. As a consequence of their limited understanding, it is improbable that they could perform such functions as mounting substantive critiques or providing surprising insights. IOW, forget about any of the heavy lifting coming from their end.
Besides from (but not necessarily in contrast to) a hierarchical structuring of cognitive inter-relations, I can also imagine a state of communicative optimization where a network of compatible “agent modules” maintains an open access environment. Sustaining the relative parity of the participating agents would be essential to the health of this meta-entity and accomplished by the same sort of cognitive Darwinian dynamic that has already been analyzed and championed by some functionalist models within philosophy of mind. Yes, none of what I have stated seems that different from the current set of procedures for human interaction. Really, it could just be viewed as a continuation of already observable trends in communication technologies (albeit unprecedented and radical).
Clearly the issue of autonomy would factor strongly into a choice concerning the two strategies…and I’ve run out of steam for tonight [lol] …btw, I’m not familiar with the term *Juche* and didn’t have any luck when I performed a cursory search. If you happen to know of any references it would be appreciated.
#56
Posted 19 April 2007 - 07:31 PM
If sensing you reliably, I probably differ a little about how I approach the great range of the hazardous possible in speculative reasoning. But I should again also be expressing the ridiculously unremarkable, which indeed describes my exploratory "bounds" and hopefully putting an end to any unnecessary residual uncertainty over what's merely my least trivial outlook. Enigmas, of course, are for teenage boys circa 1996 with a copy of Tomb Raider and no Internet walkthrough.
From a kind of rationalism standpoint, I think we have a pretheoretical ability to choose one of at least two types of relations between the objects, systems theory and mathematics. Eventually, the choice can (and should, if compelling) be changed, but different epistemological biases will be a prior influence. To a first approximation, and disregarding how wrong either probably are with their realism, the extrema of old-school science deferentialists and new-school science cynics are likely to quarantine the object of mathematics in systems theory and vice versa, respectively. The likelihoods should approach chance with realism intact.
The earlier suggestions of dilemma between thought and action is modifiable from my own scope. It is not a dilemma so much as it poses the most interesting challenge of all, one probably always to apprehend whenever unsure about what to do next (though a doubtful predicament here): converge pure ontologics (a pure mathematics successor), psychological acts, and reality. (I have indicated this much before, having successively aimed for better precision, at least to reduce triviality.) If reality turns out to be always as relatively stubborn as insulated homemakers expect to revel in, then 1 point for Exuberant Drones Observatory.
But, really, it's not too much of stretch if the plan already is to live forever and in more than one machine state; and with respect to perceived urgencies, not under every circumstance is it too radical if you don't expect immortality to unfold entirely in a polling station.
In my morphology, Juche super AIs, if you pardon the narrowing semantic drift, is a class of self-reliant super AIs.
#57
Posted 20 April 2007 - 03:57 AM
#58
Posted 21 April 2007 - 11:11 AM
#59
Posted 21 April 2007 - 02:41 PM
When you have children, you may answer this quetion a bit differently
I have two kids and it is one reason that I chose an alternative that integrates a more complex analysis of collective/individual balancing factors. Adaptive egoism is more in tune with child rearing definitely.
http://www.blackwell...ournalCode=ajes
http://www.springerl...60076947v55404/
http://www.springerl...7xp335757h3431/
#60
Posted 21 April 2007 - 07:09 PM
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users














