16 replies to this topic

[kevin]

The ongoing saga of Ted Williams has significantly altered the way the public are viewing cryonics. It is one of the first testing grounds where the people are being exposed many times to the idea and how they react may indicate a willingness to accept immortality or even the morality of attempting to circumvent death.

http://www.cbsnews.c...ain533849.shtml

Ted Williams Frozen In Two Pieces

NEW YORK, August 12, 2003

After Williams died July 5, 2002, his body was taken by private jet to the company in Scottsdale, Ariz. There, Williams' body was separated from his head in a procedure called neuroseparation, according to the magazine.

(AP) Ted Williams was decapitated by surgeons at the cryonics company where his body is suspended in liquid nitrogen, and several samples of his DNA are missing, Sports Illustrated reported.

The magazine's report, appearing in the issue that hits newsstands Wednesday, is based on internal documents, e-mails, photographs and tape recordings supplied by a former employee of Alcor Life Extension Foundation.

After Williams died July 5, 2002, his body was taken by private jet to the company in Scottsdale, Ariz. There, Williams' body was separated from his head in a procedure called neuroseparation, according to the magazine.

The operation was completed and Williams' head and body were preserved separately. The head is stored in a steel can filled with liquid nitrogen. It has been shaved, drilled with holes and accidentally cracked 10 times, the magazine said. Williams' body stands upright in a 9-foot tall cylindrical steel tank, also filled with liquid nitrogen.

The procedure, approved by Williams' son, John Henry, and daughter, Claudia, carries a $136,000 bill. Alcor claims it is still owed $111,000.

Williams’ eldest daughter, Bobby-Jo Williams Ferrell had fought against the process, saying that her dad had asked and requested in his will to be cremated and his ashes, scattered off the Florida coast.

Yet Williams’ signature, along with John Henry and Claudia’s had appeared at the bottom of handwritten note dated more than three years after the baseball star signed a will asking to be cremated.

"JHW, Claudia and Dad all agree to be put into biostasis after we die," reads the pact, which family attorney Bob Goldman said was written in a Gainesville hospital room before the Hall of Fame slugger underwent surgery.

"This is what we want, to be able to be together in the future, even if it is only a chance," the document said.

Sports Illustrated said that according to a taped conversation between former Alcor chief operating officer Larry Johnson and a board adviser, eight DNA samples among 182 taken from Williams are missing without explanation.

Spokeswoman Paula Lemler, wife of Alcor chief executive officer Jerry Lemler, told The Associated Press on Tuesday that company officials had not seen the article and would have no comment.

Edited by kevin, 14 August 2003 - 01:43 AM.

[Lazarus Long]

Yeah I saw this tonight on the network news, must be slow at the newsroom. Of course the implication being cast is incompetence combined with callous disregard for human dignity. They blanked out all the dialog by ALCOR members and just showed them mouthing words gleefully I thought it a little macabre for the media.

[kevin]

They do seem to often avoid or downplay the fact that he WANTED TO BE FROZEN! Again.. people must pass judgement on and attempt to control the actions of others. Sometimes I think it's just a case of 'misery loves company', they are so firmly convinced they are going to die, even the thought of someone attempting to escape makes them turn over in their future graves.

[advancedatheist]

They do seem to often avoid or downplay the fact that he WANTED TO BE FROZEN! 

I wouldn't assume that. I've had a bad feeling about l'affaire Ted Williams since the very beginning, basically because John Henry's version of events didn't sound right to me. That he's stiffing Alcor for the rest of the money he owes just adds to my suspicions.

[Lazarus Long]

Yet even on the next day this is how the local media play a reference to Cryonics research when it represents local jobs and revenue.

http://www.palmbeach...8512281040.html

This article in the Palm Beach Post is worth the read though it is not about the Ted Williams controversy.

[Lazarus Long]

I just got off the roof and out of the shower, turn on the TV for the news, and WHAM; they are talking Ted Williams and the scandal that ALCOR is in financial trouble. The former CEO has left the company and is charging a fee for pictures of Ted William's head on his website because he is raising cash for his anticipated defense fund.

Is this getting bizarre or what [?]

Do you think we should suggest he pay royalties to Casanova for giving him the idea? Or will that just be another in strange twists of the frozen and famous? [":)]

Oh yeah, add this one too, they are saying that there has been a problem maintaining stable temps on the body and have had to move it after cracks appeared in the first container. [:o]

I am beginning to like the Egyption option more and more.

[reason]

It's unfortunate the way this is panning out at the moment. In the long term, however, there's no such thing as bad publicity for a process or business model; even the demise of Alcor would simply open the door for another venture to take its place with a better PR front and more idiot-level-publicity-friendly practices.

Reason
Founder, Longevity Meme
reason@longevitymeme.org
http://www.longevitymeme.org

[DJS]

Thank goodness I am young enough that I don't have to worry about cryogenics. I thought Alcor was rock solid?

THE FORMER CEO OF ALCOR IS SELLING PICTURES OF TED WILLIAMS' HEAD FOR HIS LEGAL DEFENSE FUND??! Come again??

Reason, I know that you are trying to look at the bright side, but there is such a thing as bad publicity and this is it.

Kissinger

[xlifex]

Alcor's Press Release:

>Alcor Life Extension Foundation
>
>August 13th, 2003
>
>For immediate release
>
>
>Following the furor over the Sports Illustrated Article, Alcor Vows to
>Prosecute Ex-Employee Larry Johnson
>
>
>Carlos Mondragón, a director and former president of Alcor Life Extension
>Foundation, has adamantly refuted allegations by ex-employee Larry Johnson
>in the current issue of Sports Illustrated magazine. "We believe that
>Johnson felt he was underpaid, resented the tasks he was asked to perform,
>and is a typical ex-employee trying to exercise a grudge and make a name
>for himself," Mondragón commented today. "Johnson is a nationally
>certified paramedic, but he deliberately violated our members'
>confidentiality. He taped conversations without anyone's consent or
>knowledge, he has removed company property, he has violated our standard
>nondisclosure agreement, and we have reported him to the police. We are
>formulating further action in consultation with our attorneys."
>
>Jerry Lemler, MD, Alcor's president and CEO, is undergoing chemotherapy
>and is not available for comment. Carlos Mondragón is acting as Alcor's
>spokesperson in Dr. Lemler's absence.
>
>Alcor's privacy policy prevents it from commenting on individual cases.
>Every employee of Alcor is subject to a confidentiality and nondisclosure
>policy that coincides with our confidential obligations to our patients.
>Mr. Johnson signed a confidentiality agreement and he, and the individuals
>and entities that knowingly breached these confidential obligations, will
>be persued with all legal remedies available to Alcor and its patients.
>
>No Alcor Cryopatient has been treated negligently in the style that
>Johnson suggested to Sports Illustrated. "If Johnson made these
>statements, we believe they are knowingly false and, consequently, may be
>grounds for criminal prosecution and several civil actions," Mondragón stated.
>Cryonics was first proposed in the 1960s as a procedure to preserve the
>human brain and possibly also the human body in the hope that future
>science will enable resuscitation. During the past decade, Alcor Life
>Extension Foundation
>has led the field by introducing a new technique known as vitrification.
>When optimally applied, vitrification can eliminate the ice damage which
>used to decimate brain cells in cryopatients who were treated with earlier
>technology.
>
>Vitrification does involve a tradeoff which is thoroughly understood and
>has been communicated to all Alcor members. Instead of massive damage to
>millions of cells, a cryopatient is likely to experience some simple
>fracturing caused by thermal stress during cooling. Since the fracturing
>is a minor form of injury compared with ice damage, and since many people
>believe that future
>science such as nanotechnology should be capable of repairing simple
>fractures, Alcor believes it has made radical progress toward its ultimate
>goal of zero-damage preservation. To suggest that Alcor has been negligent in
>allowing fractures to occur is erroneous and defamatory. The fractures are
>a small price to pay for reduced cell injury.
>
>Anyone who seeks cryopreservation at Alcor must sign legal documents
>clearly stating that cryonics is an experimental procedure which has an
>unknown outcome. Alcor members are willing to accept the risks, since
>there is no other viable option to preserve the human brain for decades or
>even centuries.
>
>"All we are doing at Alcor is honoring the wishes of our members and their
>families," according to Carlos Mondragón. "A person may choose to be
>buried, cremated, or cryopreserved after legal death. Cryopreservation
>provides a chance of future resuscitation, while cremation and burial
>offer no chance at all. Cryonics is usually chosen by people who have a
>strong love of life."
>
>Regarding the allegation that Alcor created holes in a patient's skull,
>Mondragón states that the organization uses a perforator--a standard
>medical tool--to create a small opening through which the brain can be
>observed during cryoprotective perfusion. "Our whole purpose is to
>minimize injury," according to Mondragón. "If we cannot observe the brain
>during perfusion, we run the risk of creating capillary damage that can
>interfere with our protective procedures. A small perforation is trivial
>by comparison. It could be repaired even using today's medical technology."
>
>Mondragón believes that Larry Johnson is well aware of these facts. He
>helped to teach Alcor's field procedures at a training session earlier
>this year, and was preparing training materials for another session in the
>Fall.
>
>"Johnson signed up for cryopreservation himself, fully aware of the
>protocol that we use," according to Mondragón. "This is no secret. He
>talked about it openly in a segment for Los Angeles CBS TV news, earlier
>this year. You have
>to wonder why he suddenly decided to denounce the procedures that he said
>would enable him to see the future."
>
>Larry Johnson was hired by Alcor in January, 2003, but claimed that he had
>been interested in cryonics for many years.
>
>"I know that Johnson had some personal differences with our CEO,"
>Mondragón comments. "But we pledged to resolve any issues. Apparently the
>pledge wasn't good enough for him, and he appears to have spent several
>weeks trying to find
>ways to embarrass us. Since his allegations are inaccurate and we find no
>instance where he has accused Alcor of any illegalities, we regard his
>attack as a spiteful parting shot by an employee who may have personal
>problems and
>definitely had an exaggerated opinion of his own worth."

Edited by xlifex, 14 August 2003 - 02:17 AM.

[advancedatheist]

Thank goodness I am young enough that I don't have to worry about cryogenics.  I thought Alcor was rock solid?

Sorry, you're engaging in self-deception about your relative vulnerability. Didn't you read Klein's article about Jonathan Standley (aged 24 at death) the other day?

THE FORMER CEO OF ALCOR IS SELLING PICTURES OF TED WILLIAMS' HEAD FOR HIS LEGAL DEFENSE FUND??!  Come again??

No, Larry Johnson held the position as director of suspension services -- in other words, he got his hands dirty in the field. Jerry Lemler, MD, holds the position as Alcor's CEO. I've learned from previous experiences with the press that you can't form a proper assessment about what's going on at Alcor just from preliminary reports. I'm withholding judgment until more of the facts come out, and Alcor presents its side.

[Lazarus Long]

Good then this was another example of misreporting by the networks then. I only heard them say this in passing and I to be honest have not researched the situation at ALCOR, nor have I frankly been following this tempest in a teapot.

I was just struck how on two consecutive days the networks have sensationalized the situation and they did say "A former Chief Executive" to be specific I may have misquoted the CEO assumption and that was the source of Kissinger's comment. Since I made the original post I have been reading the posts on ALCOR news and trying to get up to speed.

I will however say that I have been more concerned about a social or economic implosion more than a technological problem per se all along. I guess it comes from outliving a lot of businesses in my time already that I am not confident that any business based model will survive till the tech catches up, hence the quip about the "Egyptian method".

In fact while I have openly joked about ALCOR and "corpsicles" I wish them well and think this is a legitimate avenue of research that should be expanded as I have recommended in the past.

[DJS]

In response to BJ saying he hopes the Ted Williams controversy creates more awareness about the possibility of Immortality...

In between songs on KROC (largest radio station in NYC area)...

DJ 1: Yankees fans must be laughing right now.

DJ 2: Whys that?

DJ 2: Did you hear that they froze Ted Williams head? Yeah, they cut it off and froze it.

DJ 1: Huhuhuh (stupid laugh) Sounds like futurerama or something.

DJ 2: Yeah, what's up with that. Are we going to have a Ted Williams talking head someday?

Next song starts...

(Hey, it's a start, lol)

[kevin]

Whistle-blower in question

Looked to hawk photos of Ted

By BILL MADDEN
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

http://www.nydailyne...41p-98590c.html

The man who blew the whistle on the lurid conditions in which Ted Williams' body is being held in a Scottsdale, Ariz. cryonics lab is facing credibility issues of his own.
The lawyer representing the former chief operating officer of Alcor Life Extension Foundation confirmed yesterday that his client, Larry Johnson, had posted photographs of Williams' severed head on his Web site, purportedly in order to sell them. The photos have been removed from the site.

"I can confirm that was the case," said John Herr, Johnson's Cleveland-based attorney. "But they were quickly taken down."

Asked if he was upset that his client had posted the photos of the legendary Hall of Famer's frozen head, Herr replied, "You could say that."

Johnson, who has resigned from Alcor, disclosed details of the state of Williams' body in a Sports Illustrated article this week. According to Johnson, Williams' head was removed after his death and placed in a nitrogen cylinder. He said he came forward because of the horrific conditions in which Williams' body is stored and the unethical practices of Alcor.

Buzz Haymon, Williams' close friend and the former director of the Ted Williams Museum in Hernando, Fla., told the Daily News yesterday that he is devastated by the continuing saga of Williams' remains, and of Johnson's apparent attempt to sell the photos of Williams' head.

"By offering to sell the pictures, Johnson lost a lot of credibility with me," Haymon said. "I give him a lot of credit for what he did, but I don't understand why he would have done this."

Attempts to reach Johnson yesterday were unsuccessful.

Haymon first disclosed the details of how Williams' remains were being treated in an exclusive interview in the Daily News in February. With the help of a friend, Bobbie Sgrillo, a former mortician who lives in Phoenix, Haymon was able to gain access to the Alcor lab in Scottsdale to witness first-hand the conditions in which Williams was placed.

"As I went from chamber to chamber, I was praying," Haymon said. "I didn't know which one Ted was in and I was afraid he'd been decapitated - that John-Henry did it to save some money."

Williams, who died on July 5, 2002, was placed in the cryonics lab by his son, John-Henry Williams, who has been in a long and nasty legal battle with his half-sister, Barbara Joyce Ferrell, who has sought through the courts to ensure that her father is cremated, as he stated in his will. John-Henry Williams and his sister Claudia instead sent their father's body to Alcor, where his head and body are stored in containers at sub-zero temperatures. Ferrell dropped her legal battle last year for financial reasons but a Florida prosecutor has begun an investigation into a note produced by John-Henry Williams and supposedly signed by Ted Williams in which he agreed to the cryonics process. According to Ferrell, the note is forged.

In Scottsdale, Jeff Kaluga, the executive assistant to mayor Mary Manross, said city inspectors were looking into the accusations by Johnson that Alcor was dumping human waste into the public water system.

"We would treat them like any other industrial resident," Kaluga said.

Meanwhile, Haymon says he is hopeful that his longtime friend's remains will be released to Ferrell and that his ashes will finally end up where he says Williams wanted them - spread along the Florida waters where he loved to fish.

"I'm just glad that people are still working on this," Haymon said. "All I want is Ted's body to come home. Then we would all have closure."


With T.J. Quinn



Originally published on August 15, 2003

[kevin]

http://www.theledger.../308140383/1004

Published Thursday, August 14, 2003

Firm Wants Cryonics Facility

The Associated Press

BOCA RATON -- A Boca Raton company has applied for permits to become Florida's only cryonics facility for humans.

The company, Suspended Animation, expects October approval from the city council to begin freezing operations and related animal research. The process would cost up to $200,000 per person.

"We are in essence a time machine," said the company's president, David Shumaker.

Cryogenics gained a widespread audience last year when the son of baseball slugger Ted Williams had his father's body flown to the Alcor Life Extension Foundation facility in Arizona, where it was cryonically frozen.

Cryogenic supporters donate their bodies for freezing or sometimes just their heads in the belief that future scientific breakthroughs will allow doctors to regenerate youthful bodies from DNA.

"Really, everything that makes you the person you are exists in your head," said Suspended Animation's chief operating officer, David Hayes. "If you come up with a technology to unfreeze me and bring me back to life, then by that time you will also be able to figure out a way to grow a body back on my head."

But most experts say that is highly unlikely. Kenneth Goodman, director of the University of Miami's Bioethics Program, calls cryonics "one of the great kneeslappers in the history of science.

"This is theology, not science," he said Tuesday. "Even if you get this critter that you've just flashfrozen to reanimate, the very idea that it will have the same memory of the person doesn't pass the straight-face test."

In addition to city permits, Suspended Animation will need a license from the state Board of Funeral Directors and Embalmers. The agency contends the company's two-to-three day process of freezing the body and preparing to ship it out of state amounts to storing cadavers.

Shumaker disputes the state's interpretation, saying cryonics' patients are not being "stored" any more than patients waiting at a doctor's office are being "stored." The company hopes to persuade state regulators not to require an embalming license or to create a separate licensing category for cryonics.

In Boca Raton, most of the cryonics work will involve research in improving methods of preserving the human body, Shumaker said.

The company hopes to begin operations next year and plans to freeze fewer than five people a year, according to its application. The frozen bodies would be shipped to one of three states that permit storage of frozen cadavers: California, Arizona and Nevada.


Last modified: August 14. 2003 12:00AM

[advancedatheist]

Whistle-blower in question

Looked to hawk photos of Ted

By BILL MADDEN
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

http://www.nydailyne...41p-98590c.html

The man who blew the whistle on the lurid conditions in which Ted Williams' body is being held in a Scottsdale, Ariz. cryonics lab is facing credibility issues of his own.
The lawyer representing the former chief operating officer of Alcor Life Extension Foundation confirmed yesterday that his client, Larry Johnson, had posted photographs of Williams' severed head on his Web site, purportedly in order to sell them. The photos have been removed from the site.

I have to wonder if Johnson set himself up as a spy or agent provocateur to try to discredit Alcor because he already had some kind of emotional investment in Ted Williams's celebrity.

As evidence, consider that Johnson doesn't seem upset by the way other people's suspensions have gone.

[DJS]

"As I went from chamber to chamber, I was praying," Haymon said. "I didn't know which one Ted was in and I was afraid he'd been decapitated - that John-Henry did it to save some money."

What is this horse s***. They make it seem as if it's the house of horrors. Who cares if Ted was decapitated, he's dead. Isn't it more respectful to cryogenically preserve a body than to cremate it or stick it in the ground with the worms?

What frustrates me about this controversy is that it is just not rational. It was the wishes of the people who have been frozen to be frozen. I'm sure they would not be happy if they knew there wasn't perfect maintenance (ie, temperature variances), but I'm also sure they wouldn't want to stop being frozen.

You're right Advanced Atheist, Johnson could have been a spy. In fact, I'm leaning more and more toward that theory. I hope Alcor sues him for every penny he's worth. The little traitorous weasel, I hope he gets Ebola. [angry] [angry]

[Bruce Klein]

Cryonics Facility Clears Inspection

Biowaste dumping alleged

Peter Corbett
The Arizona Republic
Sept. 3, 2003 12:00 AM


SCOTTSDALE - A Scottsdale cryonics facility where baseball great Ted Williams' body is stored has passed recent inspections stemming from allegations by a former executive.

Rural/Metro Fire Department found no violation during an annual inspection last week of Alcor Life Extension Foundation, Rural/Metro spokesman Mike Clark said. Inspectors evaluated Alcor's storage of hazardous materials and documentation for handling those materials, Clark said.

Scottsdale did not find any illegal discharge into the city's sewage system or storm drains, said Larry Person, the city's senior environmental coordinator.

Last month, former Alcor executive Larry Johnson, who quit the cryonics foundation three weeks ago, alleged that Alcor illegally dumped biomedical waste into the city's sewage treatment system and into drains behind its storage warehouse. Alcor is storing the remains of 58 people who have paid as much as $120,000 each with hope that advances in science will allow them to come back to life.

Johnson's allegations, particularly those about the handling of Williams' decapitated head and torso, sparked renewed media attention of Alcor and a family dispute over the former slugger's final wishes.

Alcor spokeswoman Paula Lemler said the foundation passed all of its recent inspections, including another by the Arizona Department of Environmental Quality.

Johnson, who has moved from Scottsdale, was unavailable for comment.

http://www.azcentral...3nealcor03.html