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Aubrey better get cracking.


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#1 solbanger

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 06:42 PM


If you think about it longevity researchers work under a conundrum, they work on sciences that they themselves might not be able to benefit from. Aubrey better get hustling with more ambitious millionaires because the projected timescale of longevity research is out of synch with the lifespan of most of the current researchers. Here's my reasoning, most of the best work of scientists occur between the ages of 30-60 yrs. From what I've seen Aubrey, and many of the other researchers, are in their 40's-50's. As time goes by not only physical activity, but also mental problem-solving suffers from the rust of aging. Take a look at Einstein. In his thirties he was banging out paper after paper while working as a patent clerk, by the time he hit his sixties he was problem solving at a leisurely pace, just tampering here and there with his failed Unified Theory.

What happened to Einstein is what happens to nearly all humans. The edge was taken away. If you think of it, one of the overlooked affects of aging is the loss of sexual competitiveness. Take a look at the timescale of most of the best researchers. The human body seems to start to truly wither away once sexual potency, or rather the ability to sexually reproduce, diminishes. The reason for being healthy and strong is to sexually reproduce. Now most males seem to lose that aggressive, talkative edge roughly around their fifties through sixities, incidently the same period of time when sexual potency wanes drastically. I know I'm simplifying things, but ultimately as age takes away the basic capability to reproduce (and thus compete) then it appears that the rest of the body loses its reason for being. It loses its glow. Then all sorts of problems start to move in such as cancer, osteoporosis, diabetes and so on. What I'm trying to point out is that we tend to think of people in terms senesence, when in fact we should also be looking at quality of life. So just because Einstein lived into his seventies, his real impact occured in a narrow window from 30-60 yrs. Einstein is only a simple example when you consider the multitude of older people with debilitating ailments that drain their mental efforts. Imagine if Stephen Hawking was as fit as a footballer, and saved the energy spent treating his stubborn body?

Now researchers in Aubrey's age, who are the ones to first truly champion life extension, are careening towards that sexual dead zone for human beings. As that hole approaches and as the causes of death increase will we have ample research to reignite the old champions? Nobody can predict the effects of aging on their own personality, but considering the Einstein model a lot of these researchers will find themselves pulling away from the scientific battles that seemed so much easier in their youth. Then you have to ask, who can carry on the torch? The most optimistic arrival for true life extention capabilities is 30 years at best. Reasonably, this tech will probably be as barbaric as radiation therapy was in its start. This is not counting the wide variety of diseases that bloom out of nowhere every ten years with unpredictable pathogenic abilites. Nor the fact that at that time probably only 5% of the population might be able to afford it - and perhaps keep it for themselves. Nor the caustic effects of political bureaucracy that hampers progress based off of public superstitions or from political cookie-jar theft. Also this tech probably will be useful to people who have aged well and don't have crushing disorders such as Lou Gehrig's disease. I know all of these possibilites have been speculated upon. The point I'm making is that there are hidden dangers beyond death that threaten to abandon the best brains in the field to the sizzle of deterioration. So with most researchers in their mid forties, that leaves only twenty positive years of aggressive, healthy problem-solving with, to put it bluntly, ball-sack confidence. Within that time they will have to deal with all of the problems mentioned above, in particular the bureaucrats as the technology moves into the ravenous public sphere. To me this twenty year period seems like a race against time because the originators of the cause, who at this moment have the clearest scientific vision of the future, are very likely to suffer outrageous pressures as the technology becomes more complicated both from a technical and economic perspective. Even today, Aubrey has dedicated more than generous amounts of time to public awareness for a researcher of his standing. Pretty soon it will come to the point where he will become a full time public speaker and rob time away from the lab. I think that these scientists need more allies. It is unfair to expect them to do all the marketing, website creation and trumpet blowing when their window for effective research is bound by natural human rusting. In order to even conceive of the 30 year timeline to the 'singularity', which I see as a point where a computer can maximize the juggling of millions of variables at a magnitude beyond even a nation of Chinese people and use this ability for human life-affirming results, the scientists are gonna need allies. They are going to need millionaires to help them rub arms with the international elite. Imagine getting Saudi money behind life extension, with the promise to the Saudi king to rule the oil sands forever. Without the millionaire club to take up the promotions, fund rookie researchers, not to mention creating an economic pacifying effect against political mudslinging then the singularity will become more of a star in the sky.

I assume most of the people on this site are in their 20-30s, right behind the ages of the frontrunners. We are responsible as much as they are for the well-being of the research. Every negative out there pushes away the date for ecomonically feasible life extention/protection. We may not have biotech expertise, but I'm sure many of you have relatives or friends in television or radio. Maybe you know someone with a philanthropic bent. Maybe you know a millionaire. For instance perhaps you know a CEO of a video game company, you could easily suggest to them to place banners of the SENS institute within the plot of the game. It can't hurt, they do it with coca cola, why not life extension? Without allies, without life extention as a lobby in the public eye then the 30 years will become 130. With that the immortality researchers, along with all of us, will be destined for the horrors of the cryo-chamber.

#2 brokenportal

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 08:29 PM

Do you have any references that show a trend in diminished mental activity as sex drive goes down? I dont know about that one.

As for getting cracking, we all need to get cracking. This reminds me of a quote by me that I just blogged about: One person can do one years worth of work in one year, where as, one billion people can do one billion years worth of work in one year.

Your right, keep plugging away with getting banners and billboards and phamphlets and whatever you can out there. Take every opportunity that arrises to spread the word, and it will spread. They say that people tend to need to hear about something from like around, 3 different credable sources before they begin to beleive it.

#3 Mind

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 08:38 PM

Even if Aubrey's theoretical science and problem solving skills decline, he can still be an effective knowledgeable leader of future longevity researchers.

#4 tamalak

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 08:45 PM

Dude, what is he, Gandalf? It seems kind of perverse to have a topic that is solely for cracking the whip at one researcher among thousands.

Aubrey is brilliant, yes, and has a great deal of drive, and definitely the most charisma among the life-extensionists. But I think it's unfair to him and insulting to the rest of us to scream at him to work even harder, when his dedication is at or near 100% already.

#5 brokenportal

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 09:01 PM

Insulting to Aubrey and everyone else. Thats what I thought at first too. But Im pretty sure solbanger didnt mean it like that. Sounds like a digressing diatribe that could have been more well thought out and summarized, like posting I used to do a lot more.

I just took it as another expression of concern that we might not make it on time.

#6 solbanger

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 09:25 PM

I don't mean to say that he should work harder. In fact I meant to say that as a scientific group the torchbearers should be focused on science, and that the current leaders of the life extention movement are now kind of being curtailed to the media and having to manage several fronts at once. This could be given a release valve if we harness more business types to the cause. The window of optimum productivity in all humans, as far as in the twentith century has been within the 30-60yr age. After that powers begin to fail. This happens to everyone. Including athletes, businessmen and even scientists. Typically the leaders of a movement, in this case Aubrey and Kurzweil, act as permanent fixtures that are hard to replace. If they are thrown off the tracks by media, politics and the like then the negative effects that come over time, such as diminished productivity, are more likely to disturb their scientific progress. That's why I think we ought to start looking for millionaire business-types to take over the PR end.

#7 John Schloendorn

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 09:26 PM

Soulbanger better get cracking.

#8 maestro949

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 09:53 PM

What happened to Einstein is what happens to nearly all humans.


Are you hiding something from us solbanger? [tung]

Seriously though, at this point, Aubrey's message is far more important than him mixing chemicals in a wetlab. He's one person and even if he took the MMP's $3M and went and locked himself in a lab for the next 5 years, it's unlikely he'd emerge with anything of significance in regards to a particular therapy that anyone could use.

#9 Luna

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 09:54 PM

I don't mean to say that he should work harder. In fact I meant to say that as a scientific group the torchbearers should be focused on science, and that the current leaders of the life extention movement are now kind of being curtailed to the media and having to manage several fronts at once. This could be given a release valve if we harness more business types to the cause. The window of optimum productivity in all humans, as far as in the twentith century has been within the 30-60yr age. After that powers begin to fail. This happens to everyone. Including athletes, businessmen and even scientists. Typically the leaders of a movement, in this case Aubrey and Kurzweil, act as permanent fixtures that are hard to replace. If they are thrown off the tracks by media, politics and the like then the negative effects that come over time, such as diminished productivity, are more likely to disturb their scientific progress. That's why I think we ought to start looking for millionaire business-types to take over the PR end.


Achievement isn't pure based on money.
I'd like to see anyone doing every 50% as much as Aubrey is doing.
The person is doing alot and doing it good.

If you can't support it, and if you want to crticize it, at least do it in a manner we can see the point behind your post.

But here all I see is some rubbish about people above X to Y age lose their effectiveness.

Unless you have a very good, detailed idea how to improve our way to the goal (which is the escape velocity), at least show your criticism in a respectful manner.

#10 brokenportal

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 10:07 PM

I couldnt follow their whole post exactly but I dont think dissrespect was their intent. To have stopped and considered how the title could be taken wrong though would have been a good idea on their part. Although this I think:

"Aubrey and Kurzweil, act as permanent fixtures that are hard to replace."

,is what that person is getting at. Like, can you imagine if Martin Luther King Jr. had been shot long before his greatest acheivements? Would civil rights have acheived as much success in as much time? Maybe, but....

Edited by brokenportal, 12 October 2007 - 06:46 AM.


#11 Ghostrider

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 02:07 AM

I think Aubrey sees it more like death is horrible and so anything that can be done to prevent (or delay) it should be done, regardless of whether one is doomed to it eventually or not. The idea is simply to live as long as possible. This can benefit anyone of any age. Of course, the younger you are, the better. Some might not make escape velocity, but there is still cyronics and even living another 10 years and compressing the frail state would be better.

#12 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 02:19 AM

yeah, Aubrey already is 'cracking'... I consider him a good friend, and he is a good person--already what he does is superhuman, I'd never ask for anything more...

#13 tamalak

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 02:34 AM

I don't mean to say that he should work harder. In fact I meant to say that as a scientific group the torchbearers should be focused on science, and that the current leaders of the life extention movement are now kind of being curtailed to the media and having to manage several fronts at once. This could be given a release valve if we harness more business types to the cause. The window of optimum productivity in all humans, as far as in the twentith century has been within the 30-60yr age. After that powers begin to fail. This happens to everyone. Including athletes, businessmen and even scientists. Typically the leaders of a movement, in this case Aubrey and Kurzweil, act as permanent fixtures that are hard to replace. If they are thrown off the tracks by media, politics and the like then the negative effects that come over time, such as diminished productivity, are more likely to disturb their scientific progress. That's why I think we ought to start looking for millionaire business-types to take over the PR end.


Sorry I went off like that. But sometimes I get a dreadful vibe that Aubrey is the hero in some cheesy RPG, having to save the world with whatever resources he can personally scrounge together, while the other 2,000 characters, some of whom are at least as capable as he is, are content to stand around and offer hints.

Let's not be a bunch of ****ing lazy NPCs, and do something ourselves.. we can start by buying his book and following the advise in it (tithing to Methuselah, learning biology on the side of my job).

#14 maestro949

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 12:19 PM

Well said tamalak. Don't look to Aubrey to save you. Save yourself! There are an infinite number of ways to contribute regardless where you are in life and how much money or time you have. Use your imagination and work in your corner of the world with what resources you do have. The most important of which is that hunk of gooey grey and white matter lodged inside your skull.

#15 eternaltraveler

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 03:51 PM

Soulbanger better get cracking.


aye.

If you're worried things are progressing too slowly. Get to work yourself.

#16 kevin

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 05:34 AM

Soulbanger better get cracking.


aye.

If you're worried things are progressing too slowly. Get to work yourself.


Heh.. [lol]

edit.. I took this to mean Justin telling John to get his own b**t in gear.. which is actually really funny...

Edited by kevin, 12 October 2007 - 08:15 AM.


#17 brokenportal

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 06:46 AM

I think solbanger had a good point, just wrongly worded, and easily taken the wrong way. See my interpretation, maybe wrong, if so tell me why, from my last post in this thread.

#18 eternaltraveler

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Posted 13 October 2007 - 05:48 PM

Soulbanger better get cracking.


aye.

If you're worried things are progressing too slowly. Get to work yourself.


Heh.. [lol]

edit.. I took this to mean Justin telling John to get his own b**t in gear.. which is actually really funny...


Haha

I don't think John has a problem on that front ;))




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