299 replies to this topic

[Shannon Vyff]

Oh and I still love her! because she is standing up for what a lot of people forget, that anger can stimulate change, in a safe and controlled manner--it helps get things done...

[william7]

Give me studies, I know plenty of people with divorced parents who are living better-than-normal lives and who never had either a male or female parental influence.

In the booklet Marriage and Family: The Missing Dimension it says:

Dr. Wade Horn, assistant secretary for children and families in the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, addressed the connections between fatherlessness and criminal behavior in a 2002 speech. He noted that in the United States, "both fatherlessness and our prison population are at all-time highs."

http://www.gnmagazin.../FM/fathers.htm

I use to read a lot of Pre-Sentence Investigation (PSI) reports and noticed this problem too.

What type of neighborhood do you live in? Even in upper class neighborhoods, the kids suffer in a number of ways from broken homes that might not be readily noticeable.

Not only does it take a village to properly raise children, it takes a strong, intact family (with both a male and female parent) to do the job right. You put the child at risk any other way.

[cyborgdreamer]

I see by your handle (cyborgdreamer) you have an investment in things artificial. May be stuff like that will work someday. I don't know.

I can see why you'd think that. However, I don't value artificiality for its own sake. Rather, if used responsibly, technology has the potential to help humanity in places where nature falls short.

[Live Forever]

http://www.webmd.com...l-adjusted-kids
http://www.post-gaze...1/793042-51.stm

[william7]

Elijah, dude, my sister-in-law is a wonderful gay parent with two young children, I have many friends that are gay and raising children.  There are many respected gay parents, men and women at my church.

I agree with reasoning and conclusions of the statement put out by Real Women of Canada that says same sex parenting is harmful to children. See http://www.realwomen.../article_1.html. It only makes logical sense that it is. Notice all the problems associated with homosexuality. These problems are likely to be passed on to the children in many cases.

Oh, and you can be overweight and be a nice person that contributes to society, I'm not judgemental of my many friends who are overweight.

Yea, but recent research has pointed out the likelihood that obesity is a socially contagious disease. http://www.lifescrip..._contagious.asp. Being nice probably makes you a more virulent carrier.

[Athan]

http://www.gnmagazin.../FM/fathers.htm

Correlation does not imply causation. This study also fails to say out of how many persons the study was done on, and whether there was repeated trials; also, were other variables accounted that would have biased this study?

What type of neighborhood do you live in? Even in upper class neighborhoods, the kids suffer in a number of ways from broken homes that might not be readily noticeable.

Small town, sadly. Many divorced children who have stronger bonds with their single parental figure and have no readily apparent emotional voids.

Not only does it take a village to properly raise children, it takes a strong, intact family (with both a male and female parent) to do the job right. You put the child at risk any other way.

I was raised by two parents, and my family is relatively intact. That said, I've noticed that having two parents weakens the bond with both of them, and keeping them both happy is a major stressor. The bond is not quite as personal as it would be with a single parent, as I've noticed as a trend with fatherless or motherless persons: they feel more open with those parents because they are their primary caregivers, rather than an estranged and walled relationship with both parents (where you tell the father only A and the mother B, etc. but never one AB).

As for being raised by the village, I'm rather misanthropic in this regard. I teach myself my own lessons, and I find it to be far more efficient than trusting broken, opinionated non-factual lectures on things such people know nothing about but pretend to.

[cyborgdreamer]

Give me studies, I know plenty of people with divorced parents who are living better-than-normal lives and who never had either a male or female parental influence.

In the booklet Marriage and Family: The Missing Dimension it says:


http://www.gnmagazin.../FM/fathers.htm

I use to read a lot of Pre-Sentence Investigation (PSI) reports and noticed this problem too.

What type of neighborhood do you live in? Even in upper class neighborhoods, the kids suffer in a number of ways from broken homes that might not be readily noticeable.

Not only does it take a village to properly raise children, it takes a strong, intact family (with both a male and female parent) to do the job right. You put the child at risk any other way.

That's interesting but are you familiar with the saying 'corrolation does not imply causation'? Sure, the source of those kids' problems could have to do with the lack of a father. But it could just as easily be because of the strain caused by going through a divorce or because single women get pregnant by accident when they don't have the means to support a child. If this is the case than people who deliberately start families without a mother and a father would have no disadvantage.

[william7]

I see by your handle (cyborgdreamer) you have an investment in things artificial. May be stuff like that will work someday. I don't know.

I can see why you'd think that. However, I don't value artificiality for its own sake. Rather, if used responsibly, technology has the potential to help humanity in places where nature falls short.

Then you would agree that when nature has already done an excellent job artificial methods shouldn't be substituted?

[william7]

[eternaltraveler]

Humans have much that can be improved. We wear out, we can't generate energy through nuclear fusion, or withstand accelerations greater than 20 g (and for very short periods at that).

[cyborgdreamer]

I see by your handle (cyborgdreamer) you have an investment in things artificial. May be stuff like that will work someday. I don't know.

I can see why you'd think that. However, I don't value artificiality for its own sake. Rather, if used responsibly, technology has the potential to help humanity in places where nature falls short.

Then you would agree that when nature has already done an excellent job artificial methods shouldn't be substituted?

Yes, but in the context of artificial insemination, nature hasn't done such a great job for gays/lesbians/single people who are ready to be parents.

[Shannon Vyff]

Fatherless can imply single parents, which I think do have higher statistical problems than two parent households. I know many gays who have had their children natural ways, or adopted. Women using donated sperm, through sex with their male friend. It is quite natural for some species, ours included, to adopt babies that have little future due to their parents being dead, or not able to care for them. Not to mention a plethora of areas that nature has enabled us with empathy.

My church is not in my neighborhood, it is comprised of members from all over Austin. Children do best when raised within a community of some sort.

There are also successful people with single parents, and messed up adults who were raised by two heterosexual, Christian parents.

[eternaltraveler]

There are also successful people with single parents, and messed up adults who were raised by two heterosexual, Christian parents

They can be really messed up, and believe all kinds of wacky things without any supporting evidence, like the earth is less than 10,000 years old, and women are derived from men's ribs.

Some of them, surprisingly, manage to out grow such a terrible upbringing and gain some quantity of rationality.

[basho]

if her and her wife want to have a child they certainly can through artificial insemination.

Artificial is key word here. It's not natural. The penis and the vagina were designed to do the job.

* Your legs were designed (evolved) for locomotion, but I'm sure you have used artificial transportation (cars, bicycles, etc) to go places.

* Your vocal chords have evolved for talking, but you use methods of artificial communication such as the internet.

* You brain is evolved to store large amounts of information, but you use artificial, paper-based storage devices like the Bible to externalize knowledge.

Use of the artificial to extend our reach pretty much defines the human species. You could say it's natural.

Still not quite sure what male nipples have evolved for though.

[Lazarus Long]

I agree Basho. The more we study the more we learn that *artificial* (human made) is certainly a *natural* part of human nature.

The concern I have is balancing our productivity and destructiveness with the rest of *nature*.

[Luna]

I can't wait to the point we "by our human nature" create ourselves wings and immortality

[Shannon Vyff]

good points Basho!

[william7]

But you better be careful not to replace something natural that's functioning perfectly well with something artificial that's going to do a much poorer job than the natural method. Best not to get caught in that trap again. Like cars and planes. You don't want to become machine heads do you? Or miss out on natural intercourse.

[Lazarus Long]

But you better be careful not to replace something natural that's functioning perfectly well with something artificial that's going to do a much poorer job than the natural method.

Elijah any good engineer will tell you: "If it ain't broke don't fix it".

Human made is appropriate when it is more task effective than the natural alternative, replacing worn, damaged, or defective parts, better adaptive to harsh conditions that we did not evolve with, and even as individual artistic expression for the body as art.

For example eyes are great but microscopes and telescopes are more task effective. If you have good working eyes then simply augmenting them with external technology is sufficient but if you were already blind and had the alternative to see *better* than with normal eyes, in a wider range of EM spectrum, and with great focal resolution both for larger and smaller objectives then most people (not you obviously) would probably opt for the enhanced version.

Best not to get caught in that trap again. Like cars and planes.

You have repeatedly demonstrated by your words a real antithetical position on travel methods and objectives than most of us will ever accept. I (probably *we*) will not ever again be confined to small regions of this or any world voluntarily. We humans can definitely improve on the methods of travel but speed and distance require that we will fly and move faster than walking or human powered transport can over the ground.

You don't want to become machine heads do you?

Actually many of us, myself included probably do want to be *machine heads* by your definition.

Or miss out on natural intercourse

Could you please define *natural intercourse*?

I do hope you are not suggesting that only the kind of *intercourse* that is *natural* is the type restricted to procreation.

If so you have such highly unrealistic expectations that no wonder you persist in waiting for an externalized salvation because the *natural course* of events will never produce the result you hope for.

BTW, thanks for the Deep Purple clip, that was highly nostalgic.

Edited by Lazarus Long, 23 October 2007 - 01:44 PM.

[basho]

...
You don't want to become machine heads do you?

The scariest thing I have seen all week can be found by clicking one of the related videos to the one you included above.

This is just... indescribable. Its like one of those nightmares you have when you are really sick. The tight gold satin pants, the puffy shirt, the dancing. Its just horrible. And those '60s women in the clip are unbelievably hot. Really really hot. I am suffering cognitive dissonance from the contrast.

Deep Purple (1968) - Hush

[Luna]

My eyes :(

[basho]

My eyes :(

Oh god, I just watched it again. I just couldn't stop myself. oooowwwww

[Lazarus Long]

This is just... indescribable. Its like one of those nightmares you have when you are really sick. The tight gold satin pants, the puffy shirt, the dancing. Its just horrible.

I resemble that remark [angry]

Actually I loved the song Hush and now you can see the evolution of fashion that led to the Disco Movement.

Anyway, you haven't seen anything yet, soon fabrics that can change colors will vie for attention in the clubs and the cacophony of colors might even confuse the bands.

BTW have you ever looked at male fashions from the Elizabethan era?

[basho]

I resemble that remark [angry]

Parties at your house must be awesome!

BTW have you ever looked at male fashions from the Elizabethan era?

Ah yes

[william7]

You have repeatedly demonstrated by your words a real antithetical position on travel methods and objectives than most of us will ever accept. I (probably *we*) will not ever again be confined to small regions of this or any world voluntarily. We humans can definitely improve on the methods of travel but speed and distance require that we will fly and move faster than walking or human powered transport can over the ground.

Motor vehicles and aircraft are just too destructive of human life and the environment for my taste. They're "killin machines" as the Deep Purple song says. Not my idea of Christian behavior at all. A wise and merciful people should be able to come up with ways to live without them.

Actually many of us, myself included probably do want to be *machine heads* by your definition.

To use highly advanced technology to become machine heads like you guys are thinking of will really take a people blessed by the Lord. It would have to be done just right or you would end up like the monsters in those science fiction movies.

Could you please define *natural intercourse*?

I do hope you are not suggesting that only the kind of *intercourse* that is *natural* is the type restricted to procreation.

I consider natural intercourse to be between a man and a woman as a part of their loving relationship. Unnatural intercourse is of the homosexual variety. Any artificial insemination used to further the goals of the homosexual relationship I would consider to be unnatural.

If so you have such highly unrealistic expectations that no wonder you persist in waiting for an externalized salvation because the *natural course* of events will never produce the result you hope for.

Even though I wait for the Lord to bring about His salvation, I also prepare myself for it. This is why I study the Bible carefully and try to put it into practice to the best of my ability.

BTW, thanks for the Deep Purple clip, that was highly nostalgic.

I'm glad somebody around here is old enough to remember Deep Purple. We use to spend hours on end cramped up down a basement somewhere "frying our brains" and blasting stuff like that on a record player or 8 track.

[william7]

This is just... indescribable. Its like one of those nightmares you have when you are really sick. The tight gold satin pants, the puffy shirt, the dancing. Its just horrible.

I have to agree with you. I use to watch that stuff on television when I was 11 or 12, but it wasn't until 1970 that I got into the scene. By then it was old faded blue jeans, t-shirts, flannel shirts, and beat up looking tennis shoes. We all use to pretty much look like carbon copies back then.

BTW have you ever looked at male fashions from the Elizabethan era?

Remember Paul Revere and the Raiders? .

[Luna]

Sex is overrated..

Virgin forever! yay =)

[cyborgdreamer]

To use highly advanced technology to become machine heads like you guys are thinking of will really take a people blessed by the Lord. It would have to be done just right or you would end up like the monsters in those science fiction movies.

I think you underestimate humanity. If the scientists involved were responsible and careful and if they tested it carefully before use in humans, I think we could build a 'machine head' that would retain the person's individuality. Otherwise, no one would ever want one anyway. I know I would never let anyone touch my brain if I was unsure of my safety.

[Shannon Vyff]

hey that singer is sexy! love that codpiece totally

If I come back in the future and get to help colonize a planet its gonna be sixties style and free love! hmmm Halloween coming up... I'm so gonna be a sixties girl, gotta get a cool wig...

Elijah, lesbians can have sex with a male friend to get pregnant, and they can also adopt. You can be a 'machine head' for God

Maybe in a thousand years I'll think sex is overrated --but for now, I love the legal way to get the best hormonal highs, daily....

[william7]

To use highly advanced technology to become machine heads like you guys are thinking of will really take a people blessed by the Lord. It would have to be done just right or you would end up like the monsters in those science fiction movies.

I think you underestimate humanity. If the scientists involved were responsible and careful and if they tested it carefully before use in humans, I think we could build a 'machine head' that would retain the person's individuality. Otherwise, no one would ever want one anyway. I know I would never let anyone touch my brain if I was unsure of my safety.

It'll take extraordinary human character to live out the immortal lives such technology would make possible. It'll take a thousand years of living humbly and meekly in the Kingdom of God on earth under Jesus Christ's rule just to develop such character along with all the other necessary knowledge to make it possible.

Instead of dreaming about cyborgs you should consider meditating on the Scriptures.