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Adverse effects of occasional cigar smoking


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#1 Athanasios

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 04:27 PM


I have talked to some cigar smokers who have claimed no significant adverse effects of a cigar or two a day or less (primary cigar smokers, meaning never smoked cigarettes). I didn't believe it at first because 5 cigarettes a week is harmful. After doing some snooping around I too believe that it isnt harmful and am considering taking up the habit (twice a week). Am I missing something?

They believed that it was due to:

a. No inhalation into the lung, which also makes nicotine intake very low.
b. No crazy additives and the tobacco is aged, reducing ammonia content significantly.
c. The fat long sizes of cigars keep the smoke very cool, not hot.

It seemed like many studies try to jumble these types of smokers with those who smoke 5+ a day or with secondary smokers so they can make blanket statements. All specific statements are very mild.

P.S. Feel free to move the post to a more appropriate forum if you think of one.

#2 platypus

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 04:55 PM

Have you got a reference/link to the claim that 5 cigarettes per week is harmful (I'm quite sure it is)?

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#3 Live Forever

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 04:56 PM

I smoke an occasional cigar (by occasional I mean 2 or 3 times a year) and I can't imagine the health effects of puffing on a cigar would be anywhere near that of a cigarette smoker. I used to smoke a pipe just because I liked the smell of pipe tobacco more than that of cigars...

I seem to remember a study I read awhile back which said that occasional pipe or cigar smoking actually led to a lower risk of dying from some things (such as coronary disease) while slightly increasing the risk for things like mouth cancer. I can't remember where I saw it, though, so I may be misremembering.

#4 krillin

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 05:38 PM

http://cancerres.aac.../37/12/4608.pdf

Chart one shows that smoking 1-5 cigars per day gives you a 4-5 times greater risk of oral cancer. I had trouble finding other studies that broke down cigar smoking into different frequencies: they're usually lumped together as "cigar smokers", with consistently negative effects.

You could argue that the risk of 1-2 per day might be much less than 3-5, but there's also the risk of being mistaken for a Republican.
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#5 health_nutty

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 05:48 PM

You could argue that the risk of 1-2 per day might be much less than 3-5, but there's also the risk of being mistaken for a Republican.


LOL.

And cigars stink.

#6 rabagley

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 06:59 PM

I used to occasionally smoke cigars (maybe one a week), but the side effects were more than a little distressing.

1) The taste of cigar residue would remain for several days. Not only did this taste much worse than the pleasant cigar (and for much longer), it interfered with enjoying many foods that had subtle flavors.

2) My salivary glands went all over the place, and both dry mouth and excessive salivation happened seemingly at random. I'm not against a little excess salivation when I smell something wonderful, but in the middle of a presentation, it's problematic.

3) Finally, all of my clothes and the house began to stink, even though I would only smoke outside or at the pipe shop around the corner.

So I'll smoke a cigar when a friend has a baby or wedding, but that's only two or three a year. Even then, I'll only smoke an inch or so of the cigar before finding a way to discretely toss the rest.

#7 Athanasios

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 07:04 PM

OK, from further reading it looks like there is risk of 1 to 2 a day, and there is lack of data below that. Th risks appear to be that smoking 1-2 cigars per day doubles the rate for oral cancers and esophageal cancer and increases by six times the risk of cancer of the larynx. This comes out to a 2% greater all cause mortality.

Here is a report that is very thorough:
http://cancercontrol...aphs/9/m9_4.PDF

Edited by cnorwood, 28 October 2007 - 11:15 PM.


#8 Mind

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 10:11 PM

I am like Liveforever. I smoke about 2 to 3 cigars a year, mainly during celebrations. I feel that at this rate (2 or 3 per year) I am not increasing my risk of oral cancer very much. The thing I don't like is the cigar taste remaining in my mouth for a day or 2 afterward.

#9 Athanasios

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 10:32 PM

I am like Liveforever. I smoke about 2 to 3 cigars a year, mainly during celebrations. I feel that at this rate (2 or 3 per year) I am not increasing my risk of oral cancer very much. The thing I don't like is the cigar taste remaining in my mouth for a day or 2 afterward.

No, i don't think you are. One thing to note is that some of these cancers are quite rare so a potential doubling may not give a significant risk.

I think I am going to smoke 1/2 a cigar (sharing it) every wednesday and saturday. One from a local shop and one from an online cigar club.

#10 niner

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 03:48 AM

I'm also like Mind and Liveforever; an infrequent cigar smoker. In fact, getting more infrequent. They never seem to have the richness and flavor that I imagine they will, but rather seem to be kind of hot and dry. I used to chew tobacco long ago (talk about your gross addictions...) and I think that might be coloring my opinions about what tobacco "should" be like. So have I just not found a good cigar, or are they all kind of hot and dry?

I think I'm going to drop half a tab of acid (sharing it) every tuesday and alternate thursdays.

#11 rabagley

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 04:06 AM

This whole thread reminds me of a scene in "Johnny Dangerously" Jonny gives his ailing mother a cigarette case for her birthday. In response, she exclaims, "Thanks Johnny! I was thinking of taking up smoking. This clinches it!"

There's something surreal about someone thinking of taking up smoking and asking for advice on the imminst forums. If you really want to be immortal: inhale as few pollutants as possible, including tobacco smoke.

#12 fearfrost

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 09:12 AM

There's something surreal about someone thinking of taking up smoking and asking for advice on the imminst forums.  If you really want to be immortal: inhale as few pollutants as possible, including tobacco smoke.


There is something surreal about someone thinking that inhaling as few pollutants as possible is going to make them immortal.

You always know its going to be an awesome quote when it start with "If you really want to be immortal..." :)

Rabagley, I can assure you that you are far from being immortal, and trying to inhale as few pollutants as possible wont get you an inch closer.
There is a huge difference between living healthily and trying to become immortal, it is a shame that these two ideas are considered interchangeable on this forum.

#13 s123

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 10:07 AM

If you want to be healthy or live longer you don't want to inhale this poison.

It contains: polonium-210 (only a few times more deadly than sarin nerve gas and high radioactive ), radium-226, radon (radioactive gas), lead-210, bismuth-210, hydrogen cyanide (poison gas), PAKs (e.g. benzo[a]pyrene), nitrosamines, aflatoxin, dioxines (PCDDs and PCDFs), benzene, hydrazine, phenol, resorcinol, cresol, aniline, acrolein, formaldehyde, arsenic, cadmium, mercury, aluminium, nickel, aromatic amines, nicotine, carbon monoxide, acetaldehyde, pesticides (you buy organic grown products to avoid this and then you inhale it when you smoke), toluene, methanol, methyl chloride, cholesterol, carbonyl sulfide, pyridine, ammonia, crotonaldehyde, butyraldehyde (becomes butyric acid in the air), fine dust, acetone,...

The tar (you know the same thing they put on the roads) consists of aliphatic hydrocarbons, phenols, PAKs, benzene, organic acids and wax.

Yes, cigars have a good smell. I like the smell of ammonia and naphthalene.

Edited by s123, 29 October 2007 - 10:34 AM.


#14 MP11

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 10:48 AM

Here's a link to an article that cites some studies that say smoking may lower the risk of alzheimer's.

http://www.straightd...ics/a5_096.html

#15 maxwatt

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 11:01 AM

Here's a link to an article that cites some studies that say smoking may lower the risk of alzheimer's.

http://www.straightd...ics/a5_096.html


Any form of nicotine lowers the risk of Parkinson's. So does use of cocaine, heroin or other opiates, and probably any addiction that increases release of dopamine in the substantia nigra or nuclear accumbens.

Of course cigars are hot and dry. You have a raging trash fire four inches in front of your nose.

When my kids were born, I handed out chocolate cigars.

#16 quarter

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 11:39 AM

Even if there is minimal downside I fail to see any upside that would make someone want to take this up.

I have been to a number of weddings and a few of my friends have had babies but I have never seen anybody smoke a cigar in real life.

#17 Mixter

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 11:58 AM

It does a great many of things, but maybe show them a link:
http://en.wikipedia....action_with_DNA

Whatever internal tissue cigar/pipe/whatever smoke touches, it will deliver
at least some benzopyrene there, and simply put, this slowly destroys your
anti-tumor genes there, permanently. This accumulates over a lifetime, so
definitely some damage is done every time, the question is when it will show.

But allright, not inhaling is "smart": tongue and mouth cancers are also common
among smokers, and nasty, but the survival rates are of course better than lung cancer.

#18 Live Forever

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 12:57 PM

Even if there is minimal downside I fail to see any upside that would make someone want to take this up.

Like I said, I only puff on them 2-3 times a year, but relaxation and social-ness seems to be the main upsides.

My brother smokes them all the time (several times a week) and he is a very good marathon runner and stuff.

Yes, cigars have a good smell. I like the smell of ammonia and naphthalene.

I still prefer pipes because of the "sweet" smell. There are some cigars that use sweeter smelling tobacco, but they are usually the low end ones. (Black and Mild, etc)

#19 rabagley

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 02:51 PM

There is something surreal about someone thinking that inhaling as few pollutants as possible is going to make them immortal.

My first troll! How cute! Alright, I'll respond.

Reading skills are important and expected on this forum. I am writing to people who have an IQ well above the US President's.

But for you, I'll spell it out: Smoking tobacco reduces your chance at a long and healthy life. Not smoking is therefore necessary to a long and healthy life. This does not mean that "not smoking" is sufficient to guarantee a long and healthy life.

There are lots of things that are necessary but not sufficient to obtain various goals. Smoking and quasi-immortality fit this category neatly.

You always know its going to be an awesome quote when it start with "If you really want to be immortal..."  :)

Rabagley, I can assure you that you are far from being immortal, and trying to inhale as few pollutants as possible wont get you an inch closer.

I actually believe that there is a chance that my generation (those currently approaching middle age) can push out the current maximum theoretical human lifespan. Push it out indefinitely? Maybe not. Another twenty or thirty years of quality living? Seems possible.

Do I think I'm immortal? No. Even aside from being more vulnerable than most to accidental death (I commute on a motorcycle), I'm simply using the name of the group in my rhetorical argument that smoking will take you in the opposite direction from our ostensibly collective goal of living longer.

(edit: added response to trollish mistake)

Edited by rabagley, 29 October 2007 - 04:00 PM.


#20 quarter

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 03:13 PM

Like I said, I only puff on them 2-3 times a year, but relaxation and social-ness seems to be the main upsides.


Fair enough, these things are not to be under estimated.

#21 s123

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 03:47 PM

It does a great many of things, but maybe show them a link:
http://en.wikipedia....action_with_DNA

Whatever internal tissue cigar/pipe/whatever smoke touches, it will deliver
at least some benzopyrene there, and simply put, this slowly destroys your
anti-tumor genes there, permanently. This accumulates over a lifetime, so
definitely some damage is done every time, the question is when it will show.

But allright, not inhaling is "smart": tongue and mouth cancers are also common
among smokers, and nasty, but the survival rates are of course better than lung cancer.


Oh this is nothing in comparison with the radioactive compounds that you inhale.
Polonium-210 is about 250 million times more toxic then hydrogen cyanide.
It's very funny that people on this forum are worried by the presence of fluoride in green tea but not worried about smoking. [8)]

#22 Athanasios

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 04:41 PM

So have I just not found a good cigar, or are they all kind of hot and dry? 

Sounds like it was dried out. Go to a cigar shop with a walk-in humidor and get a 12 year+ rocky patel ($5-$7) and see if it has the same prob.

#23 health_nutty

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 05:02 PM

Oh this is nothing in comparison with the radioactive compounds that you inhale.
Polonium-210 is about 250 million times more toxic then hydrogen cyanide.
It's very funny that people on this forum are worried by the presence of fluoride in green tea but not worried about smoking. [8)]


Yes, quite surprising.

#24 Live Forever

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 06:14 PM

It's very funny that people on this forum are worried by the presence of fluoride in green tea but not worried about smoking. [8)]

I think the point of this thread, and others like it, is that people here are very worried about smoking.

#25 s123

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 06:24 PM


It's very funny that people on this forum are worried by the presence of fluoride in green tea but not worried about smoking. [8)]

I think the point of this thread, and others like it, is that people here are very worried about smoking.


You're worried but you do it?

#26 Live Forever

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 06:37 PM


It's very funny that people on this forum are worried by the presence of fluoride in green tea but not worried about smoking. [8)]

I think the point of this thread, and others like it, is that people here are very worried about smoking.


You're worried but you do it?

I would hardly call puffing on 2-3 cigars a year being a smoker....and no, I am not worried about the health effects of doing it that infrequently.

However, if I drank several cups of green tea (or anything) a day, I would be more cautious about what was in it.

#27 resveratrol

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 06:42 PM

There are many stressors that generate a positive response at very low levels -- for example, lots of evidence indicates that small amounts of alcohol intake and UV exposure are more optimal than none at all. The curve rises slightly and then dips down dramatically with these types of stressors.

However, all the data I've seen indicates that smoking is the major exception. The damage you inflict on your body is linear with the amount that you smoke, and there is no threshold at which the damage is negligible or at which the body generates any sort of positive response that can cancel out the overwhelmingly negative effects of smoking. I can't believe smoking still exists in the 21st century.

#28 Athanasios

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 07:20 PM

The way I see it is that if 7-14 cigars a week gives a 2% increase in all cause mortality, and the report says it even 'fails to show significance', 1 a week is very insignificant.

A can of cola looks to be more detrimental but taboo and lumping it in with cigarettes skews perception.

#29 eternaltraveler

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 07:37 PM

A can of cola looks to be more detrimental but taboo and lumping it in with cigarettes skews perception.


Indeed.

Cigar smoke is not inhaled, it's not even in the same ballpark as the risk associated with cigarette smoking.

I'll have a cigar maybe 6 times a year.

A lot of people who admonish things like cigars (or cigarettes even) get down right angry when some centenarian smoked his whole life.

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#30 Shepard

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 07:46 PM

Sometimes you've got to drink too much with some old friends.
Sometimes you've got to have that slice of cheesecake.
Sometimes you've got to have a good tobacco product.

Completely cutting out anything that you have the self-control to enjoy in moderation is counterproductive to living to your fullest.
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