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Avatarless... eliminating redundant info


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#1 Bruce Klein

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 05:06 PM


The avatar option has been removed, experimenting for a time, w/ the aim of bringing greater focus to forum posts by eliminating redundant information b/c members are now able to quickly see personal photos by hovering over user names:

avatar.png

Additional benefit is that load times are faster, so the forums run quicker...

#2 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 05:25 PM

I like that it will load faster, but just like providing skins--many are very into their customization. I'd rather have the option of skins, than have an avatar, if I had a choice :)

#3 platypus

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 08:04 PM

The avatar option has been removed, experimenting for a time, w/ the aim of bringing greater focus to forum posts by eliminating redundant information b/c members are now able to quickly see personal photos by hovering over user names:

avatar.png

Additional benefit is that load times are faster, so the forums run quicker...

Not having avatars makes it a lot more difficult to spot posts made by someone. Having to read names is a slow action requiring conscious attention while colors and avatars are immediately apparent on a page as the brain processes them differently from text. I don't think removing avatars increases usability, I'd say it has a contrary effect.

#4 cyborgdreamer

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 08:05 PM

Personally, I'd prefer to keep the avatars.

#5 Bruce Klein

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 08:08 PM

makes it a lot more difficult to spot posts made by someone.

Platypus, I agree... however, a new feature you may not be familiar w/ is the "Find Member's Posts" which can be clicked on via the same dropdown link via member's username.

Personally, I'd prefer to keep the avatars.

Cyborgdreamer, could you elaborate a little more please?

#6 Karomesis

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 08:20 PM

Bruce, I was actually a proponent of making them bigger. I undrstand your logic, but is the quickness gained that much more than with avatars in place?

#7 Johan

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 08:31 PM

... however, a new feature you may not be familiar w/ is the "Find Member's Posts" which can be clicked on via the same dropdown link via member's username.


I think what Platypus meant was that when you read a thread, you can better see who has posted what in that thread by looking at the posters' avatars than by reading the user names. During the time that I've been on these forums, I've learned to associate certain avatars with certain users, so that when I see an avatar, I immediately know which users have made which posts.

Edited by namingway, 08 December 2007 - 08:34 PM.


#8 platypus

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 08:37 PM

... however, a new feature you may not be familiar w/ is the "Find Member's Posts" which can be clicked on via the same dropdown link via member's username.


I think what Platypus meant was that when you read a thread, you can better see who has posted what in that thread by looking at the posters' avatars than by reading the user names. During the time that I've been on these forums, I've learned to associate certain avatars with certain users, so that when I see an avatar, I immediately know which users have made which posts.

Exactly. Also, such recognition is nonverbal and an order of magnitude faster than reading.

#9 Bruce Klein

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 08:54 PM

Thanks so much, all good points that will be carefully considered.

#10 Kalepha

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 08:56 PM

Hi, Bruce. If eliminating avatars is cost effective elsewhere besides faster load times, including you and other admins members being able to get work done faster, then I understand. But say if it's mainly to be considerate for members as a whole, then besides reduced aesthetics it seems it would be hard to measure (and hence hard to use as justification) that any gain is made between faster page loads and how members in general, as has been mentioned, [want to be] drawn to posts with additional avataric personality. Then again, if it's purely your aesthetic preference, no argument at least from here.

Edited by Kalepha, 08 December 2007 - 08:59 PM.


#11 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 08:59 PM

People change their avatars more often than name. How about we offer forum skins? Other forums I've been on offer them, and people can choose to use one with avatars or a more basic one without avatars (especially if they want things to load faster). I change the forum lay out of the local Austin forum I participate in at least every month, it is fun to change things up--my husband keeps it on a bare simple one since he likes to check posts quickly. How hard would it be for ImmInst to add forum skins, or 'change forum view' to the user options?

#12 Bruce Klein

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 09:07 PM

Thanks, Shannon... I note your point on skins. Creating a customized skin pack would be on par (in terms of effort/time) w/ a forum upgrade itself.... b/c one difficulty of having multiple skins in the way we've done things now, is that I would have to customize each one w/ all the various hacks and mods that we're adding.... so, unfortunately, it's not a trivial thing.

#13 Bruce Klein

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 09:23 PM

Kalepha, well surmised. Aside from the admin load (minimal) and the faster post recognition (which is worthwhile at current) my preference leans away from avatars b/c I think they provide a distraction which lend ourselves toward the amature side of the scale... which then limits our ability to attract a more quality membership base and participation. So, if we successfully attracted higher quality posting members this would likely lessen the need for avatars recognition of posts b/c a larger % of posts would be more worthwhile.

#14 Kalepha

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 10:14 PM

Right, sounds good. Thanks.

#15 Bruce Klein

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 10:26 PM

This is a good opportunity to point out the "! Report" button, which is under every post. Clicking this button allows any members to quickly report posts to the moderator team. Reporting a post automatically makes the post invisible, thus quickly eliminating disruptive material from the forum.

#16 eldar

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 10:29 PM

... however, a new feature you may not be familiar w/ is the "Find Member's Posts" which can be clicked on via the same dropdown link via member's username.


I think what Platypus meant was that when you read a thread, you can better see who has posted what in that thread by looking at the posters' avatars than by reading the user names. During the time that I've been on these forums, I've learned to associate certain avatars with certain users, so that when I see an avatar, I immediately know which users have made which posts.

Exactly. Also, such recognition is nonverbal and an order of magnitude faster than reading.

I agree 100%. It is so much better to follow along the discussion when you can quickly spot who is making which comments. Personally I think this ability alone makes avatars well worth keeping.

Additional benefit is that load times are faster, so the forums run quicker...

By far most people have broadband connections already so I really don't see this being much of a benefit to anyone.

The avatar option has been removed, experimenting for a time, w/ the aim of bringing greater focus to forum posts by eliminating redundant information b/c members are now able to quickly see personal photos by hovering over user names

I for one wouldn't have never guessed you could see the image by clicking user name, and I can see many people being the same way. That said, I think there is much to gain in regards to credibility, when new people come to the site and immediately see some people posting under real pictures of themselves. If it requires some arbitrary action to see ones image, this benefit is lost.

I have to add that I had no idea I liked avatars this much. I guess it's one of those things that you don't even notice before it's taken away from you :wink:

#17 cyborgdreamer

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 10:36 PM

Personally, I'd prefer to keep the avatars.

Cyborgdreamer, could you elaborate a little more please?


I think the avatars make the forums more attractive and provide a means of self-expression; especially since some people don't feel comfortable posting actual photos of themselves on the internet. Also, I agree with platypus that they make it easier to differentiate between users.

#18 DukeNukem

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 10:48 PM

Without avatars, this site losses 80% of it's community feel and personality.

Is that the goal?

#19 eldar

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 10:48 PM

Kalepha, well surmised. Aside from the admin load (minimal) and the faster post recognition (which is worthwhile at current) my preference leans away from avatars b/c I think they provide a distraction which lend ourselves toward the amature side of the scale... which then limits our ability to attract a more quality membership base and participation. So, if we successfully attracted higher quality posting members this would likely lessen the need for avatars recognition of posts b/c a larger % of posts would be more worthwhile.

This is what I get for posting before refreshing the thread...That is, I missed this reply when posting.

I don't really see how removing avatars would bring more quality members. People aren't that superficial. If there is an amateurish image it is because of the quality of the posts, not because of the avatars.
Besides the avatars seen here are very discreet, i.e. you don't see many wizards or naked girls shaking booty here.

#20 Mind

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 10:49 PM

I like the avatars. I prefer to keep them. I particularly like the "real picture" avatars of the people who are posting. I give more credibility to the people who use the real pictures of themselves. Plus, as others have mentioned, I associate the pictures with the poster more readily than their name. Load time is a non-issue in today's mostly broadband world.

Professionalism? I can see that creeping into the conversation for people who use cartoonish images for their avatars. Otherwise, for the people who use actual photos of themselves, I think it lends more credibility and more professionalism to the site. So actually, I would be in favor of using user photos, but limitign other types of avatar....that is, if professionalism was our chief concern.

#21 Shepard

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 11:24 PM

Without avatars, this site losses 80% of it's community feel and personality.


I agree. Is the goal a community of like-minded individuals or pure sterilized information?

#22 Bruce Klein

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 12:03 AM

That said, I think there is much to gain in regards to credibility, when new people come to the site and immediately see some people posting under real pictures of themselves.


I like the avatars. I prefer to keep them. I particularly like the "real picture" avatars of the people who are posting. I give more credibility to the people who use the real pictures of themselves.

Many (if not most) members do not post pic of themselves as avatars.

#23 siberia

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 12:19 AM

I'm glad not having to see a few members' avatars. I'd prefer that you keep the avatars, but let members have the option to hide them.

#24 Athanasios

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 01:05 AM

let members have the option to hide them.

That is a good idea. Although, we are starting to get enough options that a 'preferences' page could be a good way to group them in one place (maybe in the users control panel). Otherwise, too many options could make things less user friendly.

#25 Bruce Klein

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 01:18 AM

Within "Controls" under "Options" under "Board Settings" members can choose to see an avatar-less forum view... an option that has been around for a while.

#26 Athanasios

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 01:36 AM

Within "Controls" under "Options" under "Board Settings" members can choose to see an avatar-less forum view... an option that has been around for a while.

That is my bad, I overlooked it. Can we get the 'personal profile' and 'board settings' bumped up to be above or directly under 'messenger'?

#27 Liquidus

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 02:32 AM

Large avatars can be bloated and ruin a forum, however, no avatars can make it hard to quickly identify members. I was liking the 64x64 sized avatar, I advocate avatars of that size, not much bigger if anything.

#28 Kalepha

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 02:49 AM

Within "Controls" under "Options" under "Board Settings" members can choose to see an avatar-less forum view... an option that has been around for a while.

If that implies the possibility that guest and default board settings are to an avatar-less view, then that could be something to consider.

#29 Bruce Klein

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 02:58 AM

If that implies the possibility that guest and default board settings are to an avatar-less view, then that could be something to consider...

Agree.

#30 REGIMEN

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 04:56 AM

1. Eliminate animated avatars.
2. Censor garish avatars.
3. Slim down the excessive border thickness; several connective broad planes and bars of unused colored space with numerous shading and line weights kills the enthusiasm for scrolling("travelling") that the simple, light-weight, yet immersive visual language engendered by the old forum style. All mentioned elements don't gel in a visually logical or pleasing manner and it distracts the eye. You've wrapped a focally dispersing optical illusion around the plane of textual content and it needs editing. And the MOST IMPORTANT PART is that it takes more mouse-wheel clicks to move the page and with all this extra dreary weight to move - it - is - ex-haus-t-ing!
4. Those "Post Icons" are ugly as well (cLuNkY__). My eye jumps to that damn "Uncle Sam Wants YOU!" pic and I feel threatened every time...stop....looking at...pointing at me, damn it!

edit: addition

5. I realized what was making me feel queasy: too many similar shades/tones of the same two colors. Quick count is eleven shades(less the gradient panels). Subtle contrast can be indicative of refined taste but this doesn't accomplish that. Queasy. Wait, you're trying to get rid of the visually sensitive derelicts, aren't you? Just don't make the mistake of trying this configuration out in flesh tones.

Edited by liplex, 09 December 2007 - 05:09 AM.





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