55 replies to this topic

[jonano]

Facebook is free so why not ImmInst?

Facebook is for profit and ad driven. ImmInst is non-profit and donations driven.

You keep comparing what you get for what you pay. (hosting, etc.) ImmInst isn't a profit driven company trying to provide you with a service of any kind; The money given is a donation towards the many things ImmInst does in outreach efforts, operational costs, etc.

donations driven... what the hell, full membership is costing money, it's not a donation. I also I dont envy ImmInst, the guy who wrote that assume I am poor and that Bruce own something in ImmInst, ImmInst is not owned by anything as per the saying of Bruce or the other member who wrote that.

Also, non profit? why does ImmInst is selling ads on its web site and why they sell full memberships benefit? I repeat, ImmInst should be 100% free, with a total liberty and no guidelines.

Edited by jonano, 10 January 2008 - 08:53 AM.

[Live Forever]

I repeat, ImmInst should be 100% free, with a total liberty and no guidelines.

Almost everything about ImmInst is indeed free. Also, ImmInst allows much more freedom and is more libertarian than just about any other group that I have been apart of. There have to be some guidelines, or the forums would descend into spam and marketing and become useless. (or we would be shut down because of illegal content being posted)

[jonano]

I repeat, ImmInst should be 100% free, with a total liberty and no guidelines.

Almost everything about ImmInst is indeed free. Also, ImmInst allows much more freedom and is more libertarian than just about any other group that I have been apart of. There have to be some guidelines, or the forums would descend into spam and marketing and become useless. (or we would be shut down because of illegal content being posted)

You can think what you want about ImmInst but personally I think I am working on your liberty. I think you are biased to comment on that since you are a director, it makes you in conflic of interest.

there is a gap between what I wrote, the guidelines presently presented on ImmInst site, and spam, marketing and illegality.

What is making you illegal to be not polite? If I want not to be polite that's my choice and everybody here would be allowed to be no gentle, not polite, everybody here should have the right to attack any people any subject. That's not spam, not marketing, not illegal. The United States has a freedom of speech. so ImmInst should have some.. the only thing they do is to move your post to another topic, place, suggesting that we are not free there where we post.

for spam, I am sure the sofware is doing it correctly and captcha too.

Also when I got rejected from the cryonics institute, nobody helped me here. so don't assume you will get help from people here. Also directors here tend to be self centered to their power.

--Jon

Edited by jonano, 10 January 2008 - 09:35 AM.

[jonano]

I would forward Bruce to read this paper:

http://en.wikipedia....ict_of_interest

Because he is a good proof of that. Directors who have decided not to comment on this discussion are smart.

--Jon

Edited by jonano, 10 January 2008 - 09:44 AM.

[Aegist]

What is making you illegal to be not polite? If I want not to be polite that's my choice and everybody here would be allowed to be no gentle, not polite, everybody here should have the right to attack any people any subject.

Your idea of liberty is very one sided. So 'people' should be allowed to be not polite, not gentle etc, but a group of people voted into power by a larger group of peers shouldn't have the right to ban people who waste their time? I guess that liberty isn't one you really want adopted is it? So liberty should be 'All the things Jonano wants, without any of the things Jonano doesn't want.'

Oh, if only the world were so perfect....

[jonano]

What is making you illegal to be not polite? If I want not to be polite that's my choice and everybody here would be allowed to be no gentle, not polite, everybody here should have the right to attack any people any subject.

Your idea of liberty is very one sided. So 'people' should be allowed to be not polite, not gentle etc, but a group of people voted into power by a larger group of peers shouldn't have the right to ban people who waste their time? I guess that liberty isn't one you really want adopted is it? So liberty should be 'All the things Jonano wants, without any of the things Jonano doesn't want.'

Oh, if only the world were so perfect....

I dont think directors, administrators, are voted by a majority of users & allowed voters here. nobody is voting.

also, if I have the right to write on a forum what I want, because they allow me to do so, but then, after, they move my topic, because for any reason they might think it's good, I dont think it's fair. Personally I would let everyone saying everything everywhere, as in my country, those are basic rules.

--Jon

Edited by jonano, 10 January 2008 - 09:51 AM.

[jonano]

also if Bruce want to shut down the web site, he has the power to do so,

by this statement on the whois of imminst.org:

Domain ID:D89076785-LROR
Domain Name:IMMINST.ORG
Created On:06-Aug-2002 07:38:50 UTC
Last Updated On:11-Oct-2007 00:20:59 UTC
Expiration Date:06-Aug-2009 07:38:50 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:GoDaddy.com, Inc. (R91-LROR)
Registrant ID:GODA-035795432
Registrant Name:Bruce Klein
Registrant Organization:Novamente
Registrant Street1:1626 Pierce St
Registrant Street2:#315
Registrant City:San Francisco
Registrant State/Province:California
Registrant Postal Code:94115
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.2059606548
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:bruce@novamente.net

Edited by cnorwood, 10 January 2008 - 12:34 PM.
Shortened quote to relevant info only

[Live Forever]

I repeat, ImmInst should be 100% free, with a total liberty and no guidelines.

Almost everything about ImmInst is indeed free. Also, ImmInst allows much more freedom and is more libertarian than just about any other group that I have been apart of. There have to be some guidelines, or the forums would descend into spam and marketing and become useless. (or we would be shut down because of illegal content being posted)

You can think what you want about ImmInst but personally I think I am working on your liberty. I think you are biased to comment on that since you are a director, it makes you in conflic of interest.

It is a conflict of interest for me to say that ImmInst is libertarian and free in comparison to other sites that I have been apart of? That statement does not make sense, I am sorry.

there is a gap between what I wrote, the guidelines presently presented on ImmInst site, and spam, marketing and illegality.

You wrote "ImmInst should be 100% free, with a total liberty and no guidelines."
I simply said that having no guidelines whatsoever would not work, because of the marketing problem and illegal content. You yourself have gotten into trouble for both things in the past, so you know what I am talking about, Jon. We can not have absolutely no guidelines as you stated, that is all I was saying.

What is making you illegal to be not polite?

What is making me illegal to not be polite? That sentence does not make grammatical sense, but I am assuming you are asking what is illegal about not being polite? Nothing, to my knowledge. I never claimed that people wouldn't be stopped if they were being disruptive; Just stating that there are a certain level of minimum rules to allow for civil discussion. There are plenty of rude people around here that are allowed to say just about anything they want, I assure you.

for spam, I am sure the sofware is doing it correctly and captcha too.

You would be surprised how much of it we have to manually remove.

Also when I got rejected from the cryonics institute, nobody helped me here. so don't assume you will get help from people here. Also directors here tend to be self centered to their power.

ImmInst has nothing to do with why you got rejected from the Cryonics Institute. The illegal operations that you had to do with (that I would rather not discuss here, but I can link to if you really want people to read about all the stuff you have done) has to do with them and not us. When you posted links to illegal content on our site trying to market items that were not yours to sell, all we did was remove it and temporarily suspend you, but (as you can see) you have full posting privileges and as long as you don't cross that line again you should be fine here. Anything that you have to do with the Cryonics Institute, you are going to have to take up with them, though, because they are something that ImmInst has absolutely no control over. I have no idea what "power" ImmInst directors have to be self centered about that you are referring to.

[jonano]

"but a group of people voted into power by a larger group of peers shouldn't have the right to ban people who waste their time? I guess that liberty isn't one you really want adopted is it?"

I never waste my time, if I dont want to read, I dont read. that's all. I dont think for people, I think for me and I let people do what they want. I am not the kind of person to oblige guidelines to other people except to tell them to be free.

[Live Forever]

also if Bruce want to shut down the web site, he has the power to do so,

by this statement on the whois of imminst.org:

Who would you suggest we put the website in the name of?
...and why would Bruce want to shut down the web site?

[jonano]

Live Forever,

Bruce Klein wrote on the Orkut ImmInst group, you will see that ImmInst failed to help me to become an immortal and they will fail with you also. Also I dont think you should discuss about the power of ImmInst, since you are in this power and you have a conflict of interest, you self promote you and your power.


:

Section 1 -- Main Mission
The mission of ImmInst is to conquer the blight of involuntary death.

Section 2 -- Umbrella Organization
ImmInst shall function as an umbrella organization to help its members succeed in working towards the possibility of human physical immortality. This Institute shall serve as a platform for the exhibition, exchange, debate, and creation of concepts and methods toward that end as well as to disseminate any and all relevant information for the purpose of human physical immortality.

[jonano]

"...and why would Bruce want to shut down the web site?"

nobody know what Bruce want to, in his future, only him. He is by the internet law, the only owner of imminst.org

[Aegist]

Damn it Jonano, if you don't like it, leave. This is tedious.

Does anyone else here, feel that anything Jonano is saying is in any way valid? Can I see whether anyone supports his position at all please?

[jonano]

it's fun to see that there is no "basic members forum", and only a "full members forum".

there are 2 groups in this forum, basic, full.

Basic Members should be more united.

I am with all the basic members. go for them!

Edited by jonano, 10 January 2008 - 10:13 AM.

[Aegist]

You are trying to create an "us and them" within ImmInst? Very productive.

Sorry mate, but I'm with the Basic Members, and the Full Members, and the leadership, and I would even go so far as to say all of the non-members who just happen to share the same basic long term goal as myself and ImmInst but simply haven't found the site yet, or don't see the point in joining.

Stop trying to cause division, it can only ever be harmful.

[jonano]

There is no basic members forum. It's a fact. If you would be with the basic members, you would offer them a forum.

Edited by jonano, 10 January 2008 - 10:36 AM.

[Bruce Klein]

also if Bruce want to shut down the web site, he has the power to do so,

by this statement on the whois of imminst.org:

Domain ID:D89076785-LROR
Domain Name:IMMINST.ORG
Created On:06-Aug-2002 07:38:50 UTC
Last Updated On:11-Oct-2007 00:20:59 UTC
Expiration Date:06-Aug-2009 07:38:50 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:GoDaddy.com, Inc. (R91-LROR)
Registrant ID:GODA-035795432
Registrant Name:Bruce Klein
Registrant Organization:Novamente
Registrant Street1:1626 Pierce St
Registrant Street2:#315
Registrant City:San Francisco
Registrant State/Province:California
Registrant Postal Code:94115
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.2059606548
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:bruce@novamente.net

Actually, this does need to change.

Have done so now... so that ImmInst ED, Justin Loew is registrant:

Domain ID:D89076785-LROR
Domain Name: IMMINST.ORG
Created On:06-Aug-2002 07:38:50 UTC
Last Updated On:11-Oct-2007 00:20:59 UTC
Expiration Date:06-Aug-2009 07:38:50 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (R91-LROR)
Registrant ID:GODA-035795432
Registrant Name: Justin Loew
Registrant Organization: Immortality Institute
Registrant Street1: 1626 Pierce St 315
Registrant Street2:
Registrant City:San Francisco
Registrant State/Province:California
Registrant Postal Code:94115
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.2059606548
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email: support@imminst.org

[kevin]

Jon,

I have seen the way you interact with people and frankly, you have had a number of problems with different life-extension groups to the point of being banned because of your activities and statements. It seems that this thread is a very good example of how you get yourself into trouble.

During these difficult times you have been through as a result of the friction your views have caused, I have personally supported you and so has Bruce and others who have seen you around life-extension circles because of your perceived sincerity in supporting life-extension goals. Given the largely irrational nature of many of your comments in the past and poor relationship-building skills with others, I'm beginning to wonder if your professed sincerity is truly sincere. Your behavior serves only to largely alienate others and perhaps this is the logical outcome of what you really want to do which is "argue".

You say you "like to debate".. well I think that your love of argument often fails to take into account facts and involves logical inconsistencies. Perhaps you may wish to examine your history within the life-extension community to see whether it is logical for you to continue in this fashion. How successful are you at gaining support for your ideas? In light of your record do you think you might wish to re-evaluate your approach? or is everyone who gets annoyed with you and points out your wrong-headed thinking wrong?

You might want to seriously take a look at that lest you cut more ties with those who have cut you a LOT of slack in the past.

[jonano]

I want a basic members forum, available only to basic members. that's simple. no discremination.

[jonano]

Dear Jon:

I think it is possible. I will have to talk it over with everyone else, and you will have to explain your financial need so that everyone will understand.

Sincerely, Justin

I also invite you to create a basic membership subforum available only to basic members. As well as to create a page informing people that they can have free full membership, by requesting it and providing useful information or any other guideline.

So that ImmInst become friendly free.

--Jon

Edited by jonano, 12 January 2008 - 07:24 AM.

[Brainbox]

Full members are also basic members, the groups are not disjunct as implied by your suggestion.
Take this analogy: there are basic bread eaters and full bread eaters. The full bread eaters pay extra to put cheese on their bread, but they still eat bread just like the basic bread eaters that eat only bread.

[Brainbox]

I warn you now, you are treading a treacherous path of self deception that could result in the total demise of Imminst.

The quality of our perceptions determines the quality of our judgement. Our judgement determines how we interact with the world.
How we interact with the world changes the world. So, the quality of our perceptions changes the world.

[RighteousReason]

Jon... in the interest of greater transparency, my primary motivator for advancing ImmInst, and other transhumanist related non-profits, isn't profit motivated... but a fervent wish to speed the day when I can take sex out of my brain... as I explained here in an interview w/ Madeline Minx

...!!!