6 replies to this topic

[ajnast4r]

has anyone used this before? my understanding is that its a gentle AHA, usually devoid of the side effects of glycolic/etc...

ive managed to all but eliminate any inflamed acne on my face, but i still have a few problems:

my skin is still INCREDIBLY oily. i can blot it and i will have visible oil pools in the pores within half hour.
large clogged pores & blackheads
my skin tone is a bit uneven... tends to be blotchy and redish around my nose

i figured since im pretty young (26) retinoids would be my last option... i ordered some 15% mandelic acid serum from nucelle after reading 26+ pages of positive reports on it on acne.org and seeing incredible results like this

i was also looking at this stuff, which seems to be retinol w/ some sort of emulsifier added to actually make it penetrate into the skin. would this be a good alternative to a retinoid?

Edited by ajnast4r, 11 January 2008 - 04:16 AM.

[sdxl]

Don't know much about mandelic acid, but 26 is absolutely not too young to start with retinoids. The retinol in the green cream needs to be converted first by the enzymes in your skin to be active and may share some side effects similar to tretinoin. It's pretty expensive compared to prescription retinoids. I don't see a reason why you would need an alternative to a retinoid, if you never used one. You could start with a low strength tretinoin or adapalene gel and work your way up to a higher strength.

[ajnast4r]

Don't know much about mandelic acid, but 26 is absolutely not too young to start with retinoids. The retinol in the green cream needs to be converted first by the enzymes in your skin to be active and may share some side effects similar to tretinoin. It's pretty expensive compared to prescription retinoids. I don't see a reason why you would need an alternative to a retinoid, if you never used one. You could start with a low strength tretinoin or adapalene gel and work your way up to a higher strength.

i'll keep that in mind if the mandelic acid doesnt work... any good reading on retinoids?

[sdxl]

Can't think of anything in particular you should read. There must be tons of info on the subject online. Reading the prescribing information is a good start.

[Wulf]

I looked into Mandelic Acid a few months ago. I ran into a paper on Google Scholar (no PubMed entry) that made me reconsider.

(emphasis mine)

Neurophysiological Changes in Rats Subchronically Treated with Styrene or Its Metabolites

Junichi MISUMI1, Megumi NAGANO2, Wenyuan ZHAO1 and Kazuo AOKI1

Neurophysiological Changes in Rats Subchronically Treated with Styrene or Its Metabolites: Junichi MISUMI, et al. Department of Public Health and Hygiene, Oita Medical University-The purpose of this study was to clarify the causative agent(s) in the peripheral neuropathy induced by styrene. Styrene 600 or 300, and its metabolites; hippuric acid 600 or 300; mandelic acid 300; styrene oxide 100; mg/kg were subcutaneously injected into rats for 10 to 12 wk. The changes in maximum sensory conduction velocity (SCV), maximum motor conduction velocity (MCV), and motor distal latency (DL) in the rat's tail nerve were tested. Compared with the control group, decreases in MCV, SCV, and an increase in DL were observed in the rats injected with styrene 600, styrene oxide 100 and mandelic acid 300 mg/kg. No significant changes were found in the rats treated with hippuric acid 300 or 600 mg/kg. The MCV and SCV values in the styrene oxide 100 and mandelic acid 300 mg/kg groups were significantly lower, and DL values were significantly longer than those in the styrene 600 mg/kg group. It is presumed that the neuropathy caused by styrene is related to the neurotoxicity of its intermediate metabolites, namely mandelic acid and styrene oxide. It appears that the neurotoxicity of mandelic acid needs to be further evaluated in styrene-produced neuropathy.

Here is the full paper.

The amount used here was 300 mg/kg of mandelic acid and was injected. In a 70 kg human, this is 21000 mg. I'm not sure what kind of exposure a 10% cream would represent. In the end, I went with azelaic acid and I've enjoyed the results.

[spacetime]

I looked into Mandelic Acid a few months ago. I ran into a paper on Google Scholar (no PubMed entry) that made me reconsider.

(emphasis mine)

Neurophysiological Changes in Rats Subchronically Treated with Styrene or Its Metabolites

Junichi MISUMI1, Megumi NAGANO2, Wenyuan ZHAO1 and Kazuo AOKI1

Neurophysiological Changes in Rats Subchronically Treated with Styrene or Its Metabolites: Junichi MISUMI, et al. Department of Public Health and Hygiene, Oita Medical University-The purpose of this study was to clarify the causative agent(s) in the peripheral neuropathy induced by styrene. Styrene 600 or 300, and its metabolites; hippuric acid 600 or 300; mandelic acid 300; styrene oxide 100; mg/kg were subcutaneously injected into rats for 10 to 12 wk. The changes in maximum sensory conduction velocity (SCV), maximum motor conduction velocity (MCV), and motor distal latency (DL) in the rat's tail nerve were tested. Compared with the control group, decreases in MCV, SCV, and an increase in DL were observed in the rats injected with styrene 600, styrene oxide 100 and mandelic acid 300 mg/kg. No significant changes were found in the rats treated with hippuric acid 300 or 600 mg/kg. The MCV and SCV values in the styrene oxide 100 and mandelic acid 300 mg/kg groups were significantly lower, and DL values were significantly longer than those in the styrene 600 mg/kg group. It is presumed that the neuropathy caused by styrene is related to the neurotoxicity of its intermediate metabolites, namely mandelic acid and styrene oxide. It appears that the neurotoxicity of mandelic acid needs to be further evaluated in styrene-produced neuropathy.

Here is the full paper.

The amount used here was 300 mg/kg of mandelic acid and was injected. In a 70 kg human, this is 21000 mg. I'm not sure what kind of exposure a 10% cream would represent. In the end, I went with azelaic acid and I've enjoyed the results.

A few problems with associating topical use to any of the results observed in that study. Topical/transdermal diffusion will result in maybe 30% bioavailability and even this is difficult to accomplish. While it possesses a MW low enough to traverse the skin layers it's not very lipophilic thus it won't really penetrate to any significant deegree and thus not be absorbed systematically. Also recall, that you have to factor in human equivalent dose(HED) which for rats is 7, I believe. So you would take the rat dose and divide by 7 to achieve HED. So let's assume 3,000mg. To acheive this amount via topical delivery you would likely have to sit in a buthtub of mandelic acid all day long.

[Wulf]

A few problems with associating topical use to any of the results observed in that study. Topical/transdermal diffusion will result in maybe 30% bioavailability and even this is difficult to accomplish. While it possesses a MW low enough to traverse the skin layers it's not very lipophilic thus it won't really penetrate to any significant deegree and thus not be absorbed systematically. Also recall, that you have to factor in human equivalent dose(HED) which for rats is 7, I believe. So you would take the rat dose and divide by 7 to achieve HED. So let's assume 3,000mg. To acheive this amount via topical delivery you would likely have to sit in a buthtub of mandelic acid all day long.

Sorry, I forgot to divide by 7 (though I think rats is 6). Thank you for explaining how transdermal diffusion would affect the amount absorbed. Perhaps then, topical mandelic acid isn't such a bad idea. It would still be nice to see more safety studies tried at lower dosages.