156 replies to this topic

[gashinshotan]

http://www.liveleak....=7d9_1206624103

Is there any other solution than complete extermination of these animals?

Edited by gashinshotan, 28 March 2008 - 09:01 AM.

[drmz]

http://www.liveleak....=7d9_1206624103

Is there any other solution than complete extermination of these animals?

I hope you used the term "animals" for the extreme radicalists only ? Maybe a sollution would be to make them less radical through american foreign policy ? Probably it's too late for that.
It easy to make a 15 minute movie about western world terror as well, then who is the animal ? Fighting a "clean" war doesn't make you less evil.

Edited by drmz, 28 March 2008 - 11:52 AM.

[jackinbox]

http://www.liveleak....=7d9_1206624103

Is there any other solution than complete extermination of these animals?

The remedy to immoral ideology shouldn't be immoral itself.

[forever freedom]

Extremists are among the last threats to global unity, be that communists or muslims. As the case of Iraq proves, violence is not the way to deal with them, as they will only unite more and grow stronger (they will summon more people that previously were not extremists to the cause showing how "evil" the western civilization is by dizimating their families in war).


I think that the best remedy to them is to bring western civilization and it's capitalism to their countries, like south korea and many other asian countries. With time, i think that all countries will adhere to capitalism, it's just a matter of time; when they get poor enough and see the disparities between them and the rest of the world and get to the point where they can't take it anymore, they'll change. Hopefully

[gashinshotan]

http://www.liveleak....=7d9_1206624103

Is there any other solution than complete extermination of these animals?

I hope you used the term "animals" for the extreme radicalists only ? Maybe a sollution would be to make them less radical through american foreign policy ? Probably it's too late for that.
It easy to make a 15 minute movie about western world terror as well, then who is the animal ? Fighting a "clean" war doesn't make you less evil.

Even if Islamism is a product of Western aggression and imperialism this still doesn't lessen the reality that modern Islam is a threat to human survival and progress.

[gashinshotan]

http://www.liveleak....=7d9_1206624103

Is there any other solution than complete extermination of these animals?

The remedy to immoral ideology shouldn't be immoral itself.

Fighting against an ideology that honors terrorism, subjugates its followers into being non-human, and calls for the extermination of non-muslims is not immoral. If you look at it in the long-term, the nonexistence of Islam will have great benefits for humanity.

[gashinshotan]

Extremists are among the last threats to global unity, be that communists or muslims. As the case of Iraq proves, violence is not the way to deal with them, as they will only unite more and grow stronger (they will summon more people that previously were not extremists to the cause showing how "evil" the western civilization is by dizimating their families in war).


I think that the best remedy to them is to bring western civilization and it's capitalism to their countries, like south korea and many other asian countries. With time, i think that all countries will adhere to capitalism, it's just a matter of time; when they get poor enough and see the disparities between them and the rest of the world and get to the point where they can't take it anymore, they'll change. Hopefully

At least the communists were logical and self-serving - they were not willing to harm their enemy if it meant self-destruction which also reflects their sense of internationalism. As in the case of Israel's 1973 war in which it smashed Islamic aggression into submission, overwhelming force produces the best results. In Iraq, the U.S. is restricted from wiping out the insurgency because of self-imposed and international moral restrictions. The war could be over today if every single city with a hint of insurgency was wiped off the face of the map.

[eternaltraveler]

The war could be over today if every single city with a hint of insurgency was wiped off the face of the map.

do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. Last straw in a string of hate. Your account has been suspended for 60 days.

[JonesGuy]

The war could be over today if every single city with a hint of insurgency was wiped off the face of the map.

do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. Last straw in a string of hate. Your account has been suspended for 60 days.

Thank the gods.

We're trying to save lives here, or at least bring sufficient resources to people so that they may save their own lives if they choose.

[forever freedom]

The war could be over today if every single city with a hint of insurgency was wiped off the face of the map.

do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. Last straw in a string of hate. Your account has been suspended for 60 days.

Thank the gods.

We're trying to save lives here, or at least bring sufficient resources to people so that they may save their own lives if they choose.

Now be careful elrond; gashinshotan's plans may now include blowing this website up.

[Brainbox]

Religion is a fact of life and evolution, if you like it or not. Well, I don't like it, that's for sure.

But just stop whining like little kids over this. Deal with it as adults. Although everyone with a little governmental responsibility in Holland did wet their pants in anticipation to this "movie", it's good to see that the nett result seems to be today that a good dialog between groups and organisations of several backgrounds is starting to develop.

[Brainbox]

The war could be over today if every single city with a hint of insurgency was wiped off the face of the map.

do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. Last straw in a string of hate. Your account has been suspended for 60 days.

Good call!

[forever freedom]

Religion is a fact of life and evolution, if you like it or not. Well, I don't like it, that's for sure.

Religion is only a fact of the imaturity of our civilization. Once we get mature enough there won't be a need for religion anymore. I hope i'll be alive to see this day.


As Arthur Clarke said: "Religion is a necessary evil in the childhood of our particular species"... that sums it up.

Edited by sam988, 28 March 2008 - 07:04 PM.

[Brainbox]

Religion is a fact of life and evolution, if you like it or not. Well, I don't like it, that's for sure.

Religion is only a fact of the imaturity of our civilization. Once we get mature enough there won't be a need for religion anymore. I hope i'll be alive to see this day.

Yep, me to. But I think that's optimistic. But at least that's THE reason to start or continue good dialogues IMO.

[Lazarus Long]

The latest review of the film which was the basis for all the hoopla and this thread is sort of an extended yawn. Anticlimactic is probably a better word. It seems that like the hate speech here these kinds of provocations only work if the intended victims help them to work. Ignoring the extremist harangue and rhetoric sometimes will allow more rational minds to reign in the zealots.

http://www.time.com/...l?xid=rss-world

[Brainbox]

The latest review of the film which was the basis for all the hoopla and this thread is sort of an extended yawn. Anticlimactic is probably a better word. It seems that like the hate speech here these kinds of provocations only work if the intended victims help them to work. Ignoring the extremist harangue and rhetoric sometimes will allow more rational minds to reign in the zealots.

http://www.time.com/...l?xid=rss-world

Ha, yeah, Wilders (the producer) made his point already by the created media fuzz. He would have done better to not publish the movie itself as seen from his point of view. He would have created the ideal cliffhanger not publishing it.

Edited by brainbox, 28 March 2008 - 08:39 PM.

[abolitionist]

Christians extremists are those who protect Israel and condone it's actions.

You can't just focus on one religion they are all poison.

Islamic militants create bombs (for example) while Christian extremists take over cultures and spread their dogma - I don't condone terrorism but in the long haul the 'soft' approach of Christianity is probably more damadging.

[nefastor]

The war could be over today if every single city with a hint of insurgency was wiped off the face of the map.

do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. Last straw in a string of hate. Your account has been suspended for 60 days.

How nice... so you deprive someone from his freedom of speech simply because you find him hateful ? I find this remarkably similar to what happened to LiveLeak (see their website for more details).

When the Muslim conquered Alexandria, they burned its library. Why ? Because the books inside were not in agreement with the Quran, and those who were, were not "necessary" since you only need one Quran only.

Meditate this : if you need to ban someone hateful, doesn't it mean your position isn't as strong as you wish it were ? If there was indeed no reason to hate the Muslim, someone speaking harshly against them would definitely have no credibility and everyone would just ignore it. Your reaction was sectarian, and similar to the reaction the Muslim had to the cartoons of Mohamed.

I am French, that means I live in a country with about 10% Muslims now. Have, for the best part of 30 years. And I can tell you a few things about them, from actually living with them around :

There is no such thing as a "moderate" Muslim, but when they are in minority they keep quiet and smile, so people THINK they are moderate. Get in ANY French neighborhood with a majority of Muslims and you're suddenly looking at something very different. You probably have forgotten the thousands of cars they burned :

2005 civil unrest in France

Here's the short story, from someone who pretty much was in the thick of it : two Muslim kids fled from the Police, and in doing so ended-up dead (they tried to hide into a power transformer, IIRC, and electrocuted themselves). The French Muslim community blatantly ignored that the kids were fleeing from the Police (and why), instead claiming the Police was somehow hunting them Gestapo-style and therefore had killed them. Cue the crying mothers shouting for revenge... and you get thousands of innocent average French people with burned cars. And trust me, none of these cars belonged to a Muslim.

That, my friends, is the kind of people we are talking about. Their strategy is strength in numbers, and sneak attack. Dammit, you Americans should know that by now : after 5 years in Iraq how did most of your soldiers die ? In ambushes, not in face-to-face, by-the-book battles.

Muslims in France are perpetually lobbying for specific advantages. That includes the construction of Mosques on land that belongs to the government, when France has separation of church and state ! That's the kind of power you get when you represent 10% of the country !

Outside of riots, and I can assure you this is the absolute truth, 90% of the time when a small-game criminal or mugger is arrested in France and shown on TV... he's a Muslim. Just check the AFP feeds (AFP is the French Reuters). When I take the train, guess who's the one guy in the car who hasn't bought a ticket and gets thrown off at the next station, manu military ? Yeah, the Muslim dude who, by the way, has spent the whole trip harassing the cute girls traveling alone and smoking in the non-smoking cars.

And on a personal note, I'm of Armenian origin. The Turkish (Muslims) invaded the land of my ancestors (who were orthodox Christians) and committed genocide in 1915. My grandfather was made to watch as his own father was buried alive, then he was reduced to slavery, fed only one orange a day until he escaped to France.

You guys really don't get it, do you ? The Muslims don't consider Islam a religion, but a complete political and legal system which should govern the world and while we sit here debating whether or not we should hate them, they go on the offensive.

The Fitna movie was, to me, perfect in that it was perfectly on target. It does not portray anything I haven't had first-hand or second-hand experience with (though family and friends). This movie may make you yawn, but it's only because it places no emphasis on violence : it doesn't need to, because ultimately that is the only facet there is to Islam. Try finding Muslim humanitarian programs.

To me, Islam is just as dangerous as Christianity : we're talking about book-burning suicidal killers. People who care about efficiency in warfare more than they do about morality and their own life, which gives you suicide bombers, rioters and gangs.

But don't take my word for it. Just wait until they finally grab hold of a modern country with nuclear weapons like the UK.

In closing, unless you've actually lived with "Joe average" Muslims like I have, or you have lived in a Muslim country, don't criticize Fitna : you weren't there, the guy didn't just go to all the trouble of making this movie so you guys could play high and mighty and peg him as a racist and feel all warm and fuzzy about how tolerant you are.

Sorry if that's too "in your face", but there's just no tiptoeing around this. Come to France someday, I'll show you the places you don't see on tourist routes.

Nefastor

[JonesGuy]

I think no one's defending Islam.

But we can see that someone who calls for killing is not really all that welcome on a site devoted to curing death.

[nefastor]

I think no one's defending Islam.

But we can see that someone who calls for killing is not really all that welcome on a site devoted to curing death.

Unless things here have changed a lot while I was gone, Imminst isn't about curing DEATH, but AGING as a cause of death (hence the unlimited LIFESPANS in the banner at the top of this page)

Stopping aging is one tough problem, stopping death ? Don't count on it, there will likely still be sickness, murder, suicide and accidents in a civilization of immortals. Not to mention lead poisoning from Chinese toys, and the odd nano-ebola plague of January 2162.

As for me, my point was simple : an attitude of tolerance against Islam born from having never experienced Islam is as dangerous as saying "what the hell is bad about Plutonium ? Can't be that bad, with such a funny name ? Worst thing that could happen, you might get some in your eye."

You know how they say "ignorance is a very thin armor" and "what you don't know can still kill you" ? Well they are right. And based on my experience of everyday Islam I can tell you this : it should be fought like we fight cancer and child molesters. As for those who believe using the enemy's own terror tactics is lowering ourselves to their level... what do you prefer, really ? Being defeated and killed while keeping a good conscience ?

Or doing what it takes so you'll actually be alive to regret what you've done ?

Me, I'd rather live with regrets than die. And make no mistake : when we become immortal, there will inevitably come a day when we do something we'll regret forever. Hell I'm 31 and there are already half a dozen things in my past I'd love to be able to change. Doesn't stop me from living my life.

Anyway... we all know why there is a religion section on this forum, of all places : because as immortalists we need to keep a close eye on those who, out of bigotry, would want to silence us... or worse. And I'm not exaggerating : you know who lobbied to ban embryo stem-cell research in the USA.

You have to realize, seeking physical immortality puts us all in the crosshairs of every religion I've ever heard about. You might feel tolerant about them, but exactly how tolerant of our dream do you think THEY are ?

So I don't think banning a member for having harsh words against a religion, ANY religion, is really a good idea here.

I don't even know who the original poster was, but it doesn't matter. Like someone I can't remember once said (I'm paraphrasing) : I may not agree with a word of what you say, but I'll fight for your right to say it.

Nefastor

[eternaltraveler]

Nefastor I encourage you to read that poster's history before defending that particular bigot. All you saw here was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back.

[inawe]

I heard the commotion and came to see what's going on in this thread.
A discussion of Fitna and this guy gas* was suspended.

A few weeks ago I read a post by this guy gas*. I thought that by
posting like that he derived some satisfaction thinking he was
shocking people. I'm not shocked by crap like that. Just bored and
feeling I'm wasting my time. So I just avoided reading any of his
crap.

This is to point out I'm not going to miss gas*. But I started
thinking that this is a sort of censorship. Nothing wrong. Since Imminst is
owned and administered by somebody, posting in it is like driving, not
a right but a privilege.

But should hateful staff like that be allowed or censored in the society at large?
Let's for a moment assume it should be censored. Then what about
something like the Koran (Qur'an)? The quotations in Fitna are not
made up, they are in that "holy" book. It is fair to ask ourselves this
question: How comfortable can we feel knowing that our neighbor's children are
being indoctrinated from a book with the exhortation that it is their
duty to kill us?

[nefastor]

Nefastor I encourage you to read that poster's history before defending that particular bigot. All you saw here was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back.

I will. I know some people can be really nasty posters. The reason I didn't check the OP's previous posts was that I didn't really find his posts in this thread to be so extreme. But then again, since my family has been the victim of Muslim pogroms, I'll always find it hard to disagree with lines like this one :

Even if Islamism is a product of Western aggression and imperialism this still doesn't lessen the reality that modern Islam is a threat to human survival and progress.

Not everyone is aware of it, but before Islam, the Middle East was the height of civilization. The word "Algebra" sounds Arabic for a reason, and the symbols we use as numbers are Arabic. these people explored concepts such as eye surgery before anyone in Europe even got the idea of surgery. Then Islam came along and ever since, the Middle East is one of the most barbaric places on Earth.

Since Imminst is owned and administered by somebody, posting in it is like driving, not
a right but a privilege.

Good point, though I'd like to believe we all agree freedom of speech is very important when trying to push the boundaries of science. What would you say if Imminst's Powers That Be suddenly decided embryo stem cells should never be mentioned here ?

Most forums have do's and don'ts, ESPECIALLY when it comes to religion and politics. But these forums normally don't deal with subjects that can be affected by either. Here, on the other hand, we can't afford to tiptoe around religion and politics.

should hateful staff like that be allowed or censored in the society at large?
Let's for a moment assume it should be censored. Then what about
something like the Koran (Qur'an)? The quotations in Fitna are not
made up, they are in that "holy" book. It is fair to ask ourselves this
question: How comfortable can we feel knowing that our neighbor's children are
being indoctrinated from a book with the exhortation that it is their
duty to kill us?

Like I was pointing out earlier, if our society is truly sound, it stands to reason no one will give any credit to what hateful people say, and we shouldn't fear to let them speak till they run out of breath.

However, actual society is based (in part) on a certain... let's say... "reality distortion field". For instance, we agree humans are not animals, and are inherently good : that allows us to more easily make acquaintances, otherwise we'd always be paranoid about new faces.

But deep down, instinctively, we know that to be utter, complete B.S. and that is why we censor : to make sure no inconvenient truths get out, because wherever there's a lie, truth has enormous power. "Enormous" being a euphemism.

The challenge we face as a civilization is this : are we able to renounce (temporarily at least) some of the comfortable lies that cement our civilization in order to save it ? Can we admit we were not created by a God but are just hairless monkeys with our fair share of stupid ideas ?

Can we admit one of these stupid ideas is religion and our respect for it ?

Me, I've already made that decision, and I'm acting on it. I'm no Dawkins, though : I don't presume to tell anyone what to think, and won't declare war on religion. I believe if people are truly intelligent creatures they'll come to the same conclusions I have. If not, if religious leaders still manage to grab control of most of Mankind, then maybe we are critically flawed and all deserve to die in a religious nuclear war before we spread our stupidity outside this Solar System.

See you tomorrow, guys... I hope

Nefastor, signing out for the night.

[niner]

Nefastor I encourage you to read that poster's history before defending that particular bigot. All you saw here was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back.

I will. I know some people can be really nasty posters. The reason I didn't check the OP's previous posts was that I didn't really find his posts in this thread to be so extreme. But then again, since my family has been the victim of Muslim pogroms, I'll always find it hard to disagree with lines like this one :

Even if Islamism is a product of Western aggression and imperialism this still doesn't lessen the reality that modern Islam is a threat to human survival and progress.

Not everyone is aware of it, but before Islam, the Middle East was the height of civilization. The word "Algebra" sounds Arabic for a reason, and the symbols we use as numbers are Arabic. these people explored concepts such as eye surgery before anyone in Europe even got the idea of surgery. Then Islam came along and ever since, the Middle East is one of the most barbaric places on Earth.

Since Imminst is owned and administered by somebody, posting in it is like driving, not
a right but a privilege.

Good point, though I'd like to believe we all agree freedom of speech is very important when trying to push the boundaries of science. What would you say if Imminst's Powers That Be suddenly decided embryo stem cells should never be mentioned here ?

Nefastor, sorry to hear about your family's experience with genocide. Would it help to understand the 60 day suspension of gashinshotan's account if you knew that he had promoted genocide on more than one occasion, and against more than one group? The Powers That Be of ImmInst have a job, which is to support the Institute's mission. When a poster persistently interferes with that mission, and has been repeatedly warned, suspension from this organization is entirely reasonable.

[siberia]

I think that this video with Sam Harris (5 mins, don't mind that Tucker guy) pretty well depicts the problem with Muslims, the way most westerners deal with them and how we view our role in the world.



Just some thoughts.

Islam must be tamed, just as christianity have lost and continues to lose its importance in the west. A badly made piece of (kind of racist) propaganda like Fitna can't ever deserve to be subject of so much attention, or to be a cause of threats of murder. However many people think that this "movie" and that people like Wilders (van Gogh, Rushdie, Manji etc.) do deserve just that, and I hate to see that the concept of free speech, and human rights, is changing, that so many people accepts it indifferently and even welcomes it.

To secularise the Muslims seem very difficult though. Not least since the slightest attempt at challenging their beliefs is viewed as racist and/or "islamophobic" by the media, politicians, and the politically correct. Ignoring them won't do though, I fear.

Edited by siberia, 30 March 2008 - 11:14 AM.

[inawe]

I got the impression that many members of Imminst hope to live for all
eternity (give or take a few years). Could it be that some
human(oids?) have been alive for 15 centuries already? I'm asking this
because many suras in the Koran seem to have been written by
gashinshotan.
He has evolved over the years and now he wants to kill muslims also.

[JonesGuy]

what do you prefer, really ? Being defeated and killed while keeping a good conscience ?

It's actually a question I struggle with continuously.

But I fully intend to shun and ostracise those who've partaken of highly immoral activity during their lives. What use is immortality if you don't have a proper society to live in?

[Brainbox]

I got the impression that many members of Imminst hope to live for all
eternity (give or take a few years). Could it be that some
human(oids?) have been alive for 15 centuries already? I'm asking this
because many suras in the Koran seem to have been written by
gashinshotan.
He has evolved over the years and now he wants to kill muslims also.

I do not poses the wisdom of a 1500 years lifetime. But:

It's indeed a bit ironic that gas* has been banned due to contributions in this thread. In several way's, but I'm not going to elaborate on that. Only that I agree with the suspension, it could have been done months ago, but it has been the liberal position of imminst towards contributors that allowed him to continue. Which was good as well.

In general, it's the extreme herd mentality that is beginning to worry me alot. It started with defending your own backyard back in the old ages, has ben adopted by developing societal, religious and political structures into some kind of concept that thrives on the feeling of the need to defend the backyard, but actually did lose all rational connection with that. Greed seems to be a large motivation as well. "I'd like to have what you have, but I haven't, so I'll make sure you loose it also." Something like an "inverse backyard syndrome". And then there's the "good religion" all of a sudden, that wants to deal with this problem by putting a halt to all progress. At the end resulting in the same problem again, although at a somewhat larger scale, since some herd still had (and will always have) a little more progress and therefore wealth than others. And this escalation went on and on. We now came to a point where the herds are spanning the entire earth and became mixed, so that, again, we have an intense modernistic experience of the "defend your own backyard" feeling. Not just the feeling, but the actual need as well.

Are we completely nuts? We must be.....

Sorry for the somewhat naive reasoning, but it's very near to the essence if you ask me.

Edited by brainbox, 30 March 2008 - 01:14 PM.

[nefastor]

Islam must be tamed, just as christianity have lost and continues to lose its importance in the west. (...)
To secularise the Muslims seem very difficult though. Not least since the slightest attempt at challenging their beliefs is viewed as racist and/or "islamophobic" by the media, politicians, and the politically correct. Ignoring them won't do though, I fear.

Okay, first, it took centuries for Christianity to be "tamed", and this was in very different times. In the age of WMD's we don't have that kind of time.

Also, part of Christianity's "taming" process involved a phased where it pretty much controlled all of Europe, Illuminati-style, and had hundreds of thousand Swiss mercenaries going into every country "helping" kings fight their wars in exchange of increases in Vatican influence.

Once was enough, no one in Europe wants a second era like that one.

Second, most people fail to realize (though I've written it again in this thread) that Islam doesn't consider itself a religion but an actual political and legal system. Therefore you can't "secularize" them, because they already see themselves as a secular power. This isn't even unique to Islam : the Vatican of old didn't maintain its gigantic mercenary army for nothing. And they are, even today, a sovereign state : what do think they laws are if not the Ten Commandments ?

I wish more (or even all) atheists joined me in actually studying religions. Sun Tzu wrote it 2500 years ago : know your enemy. The biggest mistake an atheist can make is to believe his immunity to faith is a sword that can break through others' faith.

As for the way Muslims never fail to call a racist anyone who challenges their faith... it's just one more example of the kind of dishonest, ruthless strategies that have been killing US troops in Iraq for the past five years. You cannot expect fairness from a Muslim : his entire faith is about converting you and your family, or hurting you if he can't. Until you die, if that's what it takes.

And ignoring the media WILL do. I've seen my fair share of TV news when I was in the US. Let me tell you, your so-called "journalists" are stupider than poultry. These people get their panties in a bunch over Obama's lapel pin and wonder if his middle name "Hussein" makes him a muslim : and you would tell me anything they can ever say actually matters ? By comparison, french TV news are all about the issues. When there's a presidential election, we don't even SEE the potential first ladies in the news, and no one gives a damn about what they are wearing and which God they believe in.

Bill Maher says it best :

Ignore what idiots say. Ignore it all. Waste of time.

Nefastor, sorry to hear about your family's experience with genocide. Would it help to understand the 60 day suspension of gashinshotan's account if you knew that he had promoted genocide on more than one occasion, and against more than one group? The Powers That Be of ImmInst have a job, which is to support the Institute's mission. When a poster persistently interferes with that mission, and has been repeatedly warned, suspension from this organization is entirely reasonable.

I can understand how most people would want to ban someone promoting genocide, I really do. But I have to be honest with myself, and with you : suppose some kind of Hitler-esque dictator suddenly decided to wipe out all Muslims ? Well no one in my family, and dare I say my people (and we are millions), no one will shed a single tear. As for a single Armenian trying to stop that genocide ? There's a higher probability Jesus will come again.

My grandma was lucky in that she only died last month, at age 94 (and 3 years after a very crippling brain stroke) but in 1915 she lost all trace of her family. She's had to live her entire life without ever knowing if anyone in her family survived, and as such she was technically an orphan. And when I say she died at 94... no one is actually sure because the Muslim burned all our churches and in the process destroyed all birth records. Those of my people who managed to escape the genocide, if they were children, never knew their exact age and had their birthday estimated in the country who granted them asylum.

My grandpa didn't like that : like many, he was estimated older than he thought he was, and as a result was forced into retirement years before he should have. Retrospectively, it was a good thing : sequels from captivity caused him to die in his 70's. I barely got to know him. I wouldn't have, if he'd kept working.

To this day, Turkey still claims ARMENIA tried to invade them and they had to defend themselves. Just typing this makes me want to find the nearest Muslim and punch him in the face a few times.

You can think what you want : when that kind of stuff happens to you, there is no way you can forgive and still call yourself "human". Those who think it's possible simply never had such terrible things happen to them, or their brains have been fried by too much religion and don't know what will happen when they DO turn the other cheek.

Me, as an atheist, all I see is this senseless crap : another people attacked mine because they both believe in different fairy tales.

Now that I have said this, let me add I understand people in my position are a minority here. So really if you want to blame a guy because he advocates pogroms, based on what you know and believe, I think it's fine.

I also understand that gashinshotan may be a bigot who doesn't have nearly the same reasons I have for hating Islam and religions at large. Some people like to post to offend and attract attention, but when all is said and done, I think Islam deserves attention, and not in a "warm and fuzzy" kind of way.

So... to conclude this rather length post : guys, eat your veggies and learn about the Bible and Quran. You need it if you're going to make it to age 10,000

Nefastor

[nefastor]

what do you prefer, really ? Being defeated and killed while keeping a good conscience ?

It's actually a question I struggle with continuously.

But I fully intend to shun and ostracise those who've partaken of highly immoral activity during their lives. What use is immortality if you don't have a proper society to live in?

Learn history, dude : in feudal Japan, being gay was very much OK especially in the higher castes, starting with the samurai.

Your notions of morality are yours and yours alone. And you are incredibly stupid if you think you'll feel the same way about morality when you've aged a thousand years.

As for "proper society" : based on history and the huge number of now-fallen civilization, it's a fact that ALL societies have been "proper" for their inhabitants, even decadent Rome. Based on the observed LIFESPAN of societies, I can also guaratee that as an immortal you'll get to live in, and outlive, a large number of societies. Over just the last 300 years France alone has gone through two monarchies, two empires and five republics, with wild variations in borders... and moral standards.

Nefastor

(edited for grammar)

Edited by nefastor, 30 March 2008 - 01:25 PM.