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How to Kill a Human Being


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#1 Live Forever

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:00 PM


Kind of like the reverse of life extension, but how do we humanely kill a human being?



#2 forever freedom

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 04:27 PM

I think that this has already been posted here in imminst somewhere. It's a nice video. It's impossible to know if the lethal injection really causes pain or not because no one has come alive out of the experiment as far as i'm concerned... But i wouldn't mind causing a bit of pain to those who caused so much pain to others that they are sentenced to die.

Edited by sam988, 14 April 2008 - 04:29 PM.


#3 Live Forever

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 06:01 PM

I think that this has already been posted here in imminst somewhere. It's a nice video. It's impossible to know if the lethal injection really causes pain or not because no one has come alive out of the experiment as far as i'm concerned... But i wouldn't mind causing a bit of pain to those who caused so much pain to others that they are sentenced to die.

This specific video hasn't been posted since I just uploaded it a couple days ago, but it might have been another similar one for sure.

The argument that we need to cause pain to people is an exceedingly bad one, in my opinion. We should as a society be better than those we are killing. The state should not stoop to the level of common killers, I do not believe. We have forgone many modes of execution in the past in the name of making the killing "more humane". (why we now use lethal injection instead of hanging or firing squads or beheadings or...) The fact that there are even more humane ways of killing (and that lethal injection may be one of the most painful ways of dying, which is opposed to what was previously thought) should push us towards using the humane ways, I think. The induction of hypoxia through inert gases (as described towards the end) would be a tremendous step up, I believe. As an added bonus, it would be much cheaper than any of the current methods, and safer for those around than either electrocution or the traditional gas chamber. (both of which are also still in use in the US, and both of which pose some non-negligible amount of danger to those witnessing or participating in the execution)

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#4 forever freedom

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 06:44 PM

I think that this has already been posted here in imminst somewhere. It's a nice video. It's impossible to know if the lethal injection really causes pain or not because no one has come alive out of the experiment as far as i'm concerned... But i wouldn't mind causing a bit of pain to those who caused so much pain to others that they are sentenced to die.

This specific video hasn't been posted since I just uploaded it a couple days ago, but it might have been another similar one for sure.

The argument that we need to cause pain to people is an exceedingly bad one, in my opinion. We should as a society be better than those we are killing. The state should not stoop to the level of common killers, I do not believe. We have forgone many modes of execution in the past in the name of making the killing "more humane". (why we now use lethal injection instead of hanging or firing squads or beheadings or...) The fact that there are even more humane ways of killing (and that lethal injection may be one of the most painful ways of dying, which is opposed to what was previously thought) should push us towards using the humane ways, I think. The induction of hypoxia through inert gases (as described towards the end) would be a tremendous step up, I believe. As an added bonus, it would be much cheaper than any of the current methods, and safer for those around than either electrocution or the traditional gas chamber. (both of which are also still in use in the US, and both of which pose some non-negligible amount of danger to those witnessing or participating in the execution)



Yea certainly we shouldn't deliberatly cause pain to the ones who were sentenced. What i'm saying is that if we can't really know if a certain method of killing causes pain or not (it's worth noting that lethal injection is yet neither proven to cause or not to cause pain), let's not make finding "more humane ways to kill animals (okay i know this will backfire at me and many will disagree)" one of our top priorities. We have a lot more pressing problems to solve, that will benefit much more people, and will benefit those that deserve it more than the ones sentenced.


I'm no expert on the subject, but aren't methods like hanging less expensive and not painful at all? And what defines a more "humane" type of killing? Just because a method is more expensive and complex like lethal injection does it mean that it's more "humane"? What's the problem with hanging?? Isn't it just because it makes us remember of the more ancient and "less glamorous" ways we used to kill people many decades and centuries ago?


edit: ah nvm, i just did some search and found that hanging can be painful yes. well there must be some other non painful methods other than lethal injection...

Edited by sam988, 14 April 2008 - 06:51 PM.


#5 Live Forever

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 06:51 PM

I think that this has already been posted here in imminst somewhere. It's a nice video. It's impossible to know if the lethal injection really causes pain or not because no one has come alive out of the experiment as far as i'm concerned... But i wouldn't mind causing a bit of pain to those who caused so much pain to others that they are sentenced to die.

This specific video hasn't been posted since I just uploaded it a couple days ago, but it might have been another similar one for sure.

The argument that we need to cause pain to people is an exceedingly bad one, in my opinion. We should as a society be better than those we are killing. The state should not stoop to the level of common killers, I do not believe. We have forgone many modes of execution in the past in the name of making the killing "more humane". (why we now use lethal injection instead of hanging or firing squads or beheadings or...) The fact that there are even more humane ways of killing (and that lethal injection may be one of the most painful ways of dying, which is opposed to what was previously thought) should push us towards using the humane ways, I think. The induction of hypoxia through inert gases (as described towards the end) would be a tremendous step up, I believe. As an added bonus, it would be much cheaper than any of the current methods, and safer for those around than either electrocution or the traditional gas chamber. (both of which are also still in use in the US, and both of which pose some non-negligible amount of danger to those witnessing or participating in the execution)



Yea certainly we shouldn't deliberatly cause pain to the ones who were sentenced. What i'm saying is that if we can't really know if a certain method of killing causes pain or not (it's worth noting that lethal injection is yet neither proven to cause or not to cause pain), let's not make finding "more humane ways to kill animals (okay i know this will backfire at me and many will disagree)" one of our top priorities. We have a lot more pressing problems to solve, that will benefit much more people, and will benefit those that deserve it more than the ones sentenced.


I'm no expert on the subject, but aren't methods like hanging less expensive and not painful at all? And what defines a more "humane" type of killing? Just because a method is more expensive and complex like lethal injection does it mean that it's more "humane"? What's the problem with hanging?? Isn't it just because it makes us remember of the more ancient and "less glamorous" ways we used to kill people many decades and centuries ago?


We don't have to make it one of our top priorities since it has already apparently been solved. (hypoxia through inert gases) It produces death in under 1 minute, is extremely easy to do (no botched executions like with hanging, electrocution, lethal injection, etc), does not cause trauma to those having to perform the procedure and clean it up (like the bloody messes that come from some methods of execution), it is painless and provides a sense of drunkenness (or even euphoria) to those it is administered to, is not a danger to those administering the execution or witnessing it, etc.

There are many objections to hanging. The tables used to determine the height at which to drop the body are 1) different in different countries, 2) exceedingly inaccurate and can cause decapitation if the rope is only 2 feet too long, and will not break the neck if too short. If you watch the above program, I think it failed 2 out of the 4 criteria needed for a "perfect" execution.

Edited by Live Forever, 14 April 2008 - 06:53 PM.


#6 niner

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 11:09 PM

Veterinarians are pretty well versed in humane killing. My understanding is that they don't think much of the way we kill humans.

#7 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 12:08 AM

The inhumane thing is the knowledge of impending death, something other animals do not agonize over the way humans do. I do think there are ways that cause no physical pain--other than the manifestations of mental duress in humans.

#8 Live Forever

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 07:07 AM

The inhumane thing is the knowledge of impending death, something other animals do not agonize over the way humans do. I do think there are ways that cause no physical pain--other than the manifestations of mental duress in humans.

True, I personally would prefer that there were no death penalty whatsoever. But, if there is going to be one, I would prefer that it be as humane as possible. The lady at the start talking about how painful it was to be injected with the first 2 drugs that are used in the lethal injection procedure and how much excruciating pain she was in (but was basically paralyzed and couldn't move) made me feel sorry for her. I know the people did terrible things to be put in the situation to be executed, but the government should be required to be on higher moral ground than those they are executing.

#9 Lazarus Long

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 02:08 PM

The SCOTUS upheld Kentucky's lethal injection case yesterday so expect the present defacto moratorium to end. There will be a quick surge of executions as the backlog goes into effect.

BTW an interesting aside is that more and more nations are refusing to extradite back into the US anyone that might be facing the death penalty. However it is not clear that the deals being made between State prosecutors and foreign governments will be upheld if a judge refuses to go along with the deal once the dependent is formally charged when present. However if we see that type of behavior then suspects like the Marine that escaped to Mexico earlier this year after killing his pregnant lover could have their extradition processes complicated to the point of absurdity.

#10 Live Forever

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 05:39 PM

The SCOTUS upheld Kentucky's lethal injection case yesterday so expect the present defacto moratorium to end. There will be a quick surge of executions as the backlog goes into effect.

BTW an interesting aside is that more and more nations are refusing to extradite back into the US anyone that might be facing the death penalty. However it is not clear that the deals being made between State prosecutors and foreign governments will be upheld if a judge refuses to go along with the deal once the dependent is formally charged when present. However if we see that type of behavior then suspects like the Marine that escaped to Mexico earlier this year after killing his pregnant lover could have their extradition processes complicated to the point of absurdity.

With all the stories you hear of people that are exonerated after being on death row for many years, it makes you wonder how many innocent people we have executed. This is one of the main reasons I wish it was much harder to execute people in the US. (I wouldn't mind so much if it was just Timothy McVeigh type people that were put down)

#11 Zans Mihejevs

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 06:31 PM

You don't. Period.

End of story.

#12 niner

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 09:20 PM

The SCOTUS upheld Kentucky's lethal injection case yesterday so expect the present defacto moratorium to end. There will be a quick surge of executions as the backlog goes into effect.

BTW an interesting aside is that more and more nations are refusing to extradite back into the US anyone that might be facing the death penalty. However it is not clear that the deals being made between State prosecutors and foreign governments will be upheld if a judge refuses to go along with the deal once the dependent is formally charged when present. However if we see that type of behavior then suspects like the Marine that escaped to Mexico earlier this year after killing his pregnant lover could have their extradition processes complicated to the point of absurdity.

Hmm. I thought we were a Moral Beacon to the world. Guess not, eh?

#13 Lazarus Long

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 09:57 PM

Hmm. I thought we were a Moral Beacon to the world. Guess not, eh?


Nope.

The immediate company we share on the issue of capital punishment are China, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Libya, and others like Turkey.

Ooops I almost forgot, I think Turkey abolished capital punishment to join the EU in 2004 and even South Africa abolished it.

Most of Latin America has banned capital punishment. In fact the trend worldwide is to ban it.

It doesn't stop *extra judicial killings* but it has at least set a different tone for official policy.

Nations with capital punishment

#14 Lazarus Long

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 10:07 PM

BTW we are the fifth nation in the world in total executions for 2007 but that was in part due to the quasi moratorium the SCOTUS imposed by hearing the case. 2008 will likely turn out to be a killer year.

We actually execute more people than China accounted for in terms of per capita numbers. We execute a larger percentage of our total population and definitely our prison population than even the Chinese, though they have us beat in terms of total numbers. However the smaller nations of Pakistan, Iran, and Saudi Arabia have us both beat on the per capital analysis though Iraq is catching up fast.

#15 Live Forever

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 10:15 PM

BTW we are the fifth nation in the world in total executions for 2007 but that was in part due to the quasi moratorium the SCOTUS imposed by hearing the case. 2008 will likely turn out to be a killer year.

We actually execute more people than China accounted for in terms of per capita numbers. We execute a larger percentage of our total population and definitely our prison population than even the Chinese, though they have us beat in terms of total numbers. However the smaller nations of Pakistan, Iran, and Saudi Arabia have us both beat on the per capital analysis though Iraq is catching up fast.

And that is with only 36 states allowing capital punishment. (and many of those officially allow it, but hardly ever carry it out)

#16 niner

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 03:34 AM

Hmm. I thought we were a Moral Beacon to the world. Guess not, eh?


Nope.

The immediate company we share on the issue of capital punishment are China, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Libya...

Isn't that the list of countries to be invaded?

#17 abolitionist

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 08:07 AM

Cruel punishment is when you hurt someone to make yourself feel better - IE : killing them and letting them wait for capital punishment.

Just punishment is when you provide a learning motivation aimed at rehabilitation.

The 8th Amendment forbids cruel punishment - then again the Bush Admin is working on eliminating the constitution/bill of rights.

#18 Prometheus

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 08:36 AM

You don't. Period.

End of story.


Yep.

#19 abolitionist

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 09:28 AM

The inhumane thing is the knowledge of impending death, something other animals do not agonize over the way humans do. I do think there are ways that cause no physical pain--other than the manifestations of mental duress in humans.


that's a really strong point - supporting the branding of capital punishment as cruel
besides the process of killing them, the psychological pain while waiting is immense

punishment is not about getting your gun off and feeling satisfied - it's about reform
you can't reform others if you get off on killing people




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