12 replies to this topic

[InquilineKea]

For one thing, chronic (and probably asymptomatic) infections probably lead to conditions like http://www.scienceda...80522155752.htm. For another thing, infections oftentimes lead to inflammation, and inflammation contributes to aging. And then there's anecdotal evidence that many supercentenarians were rarely ill when they were younger. Here are some questions:

=> Does this include latent asymptomatic infections? If the immune system attacks latent agents, this could still lead to inflammation. And foreign invaders can mess with your body's DNA.
=> Does this apply to colds? Colds don't seem to cause the sort of cellular damage that other diseases may cause.

[VictorBjoerk]

http://www.futurepun...ves/002365.html

[InquilineKea]

yeah, that didn't help... (i want stuff on infectious illness-induced inflammation)

[maestro949]

Replying to Would preventing infection help increase longevity

I haven't seen much in the literature suggesting that significant viral or bacterial infection suppression during the first 5 or so decades of life would have a significant impact on maximum lifespan though I have seen more reports like the one you cite that there are viruses that increase the risk of cancer and heart disease. EBV and other herpes strains are known to stimulate inflammation thus potentially increases the risk of heart attack or stroke. Also, it's fairly well known that some viruses can damage heart and other tissues.

A couple of years back I was studying viral transactivators as a means for controlling gene expression and still wonder how much these DNA insertions and rogue proteins interfere with normal cellular gene expression. I doubt it helps.

And then there's anecdotal evidence that many supercentenarians were rarely ill when they were younger. cause.

Above average immune and inflammatory response systems would certainly be a key factor in avoiding the numerous infections that cut down many of the elderly but whether it plays a key role in minimizing all of the damage types associated with aging, I suspect not.

Edited by maestro949, 29 May 2008 - 08:00 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

There seem to at least a fringe group of researchers that believe almost all chronic diseases and diseases of aging are linked to or sparked by various infections. We see several types of cancer now that have been positively linked to a pathogen. I'm sure many more of these relationships will be uncovered in the years to come.

It is no coincidence that a common trait in supercentenarians is the maintenance of effective innate immunity.

[InquilineKea]

Well https://www.aging-us...cle/203577/text

[Mind]

Since everyone is exposed to various micro-organisms, bacteria, viruses, and various other pathogens constantly throughout life, yet everyone usually makes it through 6 or 7 decades and some above 100 years, it seems to be more a question of maintaining a healthy immune system. Creating an absolutely sterile environment to live in and avoid every "infection" would probably be more harmful, in my opinion.

[Hip]

everyone usually makes it through 6 or 7 decades

 

That's a rather narrow view, based on considering only the present era.

 

It is only because of the increased sanitation, antibiotics and vaccines which protect us from the pathogens that many people now live to 70. 

 

Building sewers, providing clean water supplies with chlorinated water, and the use of antibiotics has resulted in much increased lifespan, by protecting us from nasty pathogens.

 

In Victorian Britain in 1850, average life expectancy it was 40 for men and 42 for women. Ref: here.

 

Currently life expectancy in the UK has now doubled, 80 years for males and 84 for women. 

 

 

 

 

However, much as life expectancy has now improved, we are suffering with more and more chronic diseases and cancers because of our longer lives. 

 

Many of these diseases and cancers may be caused by chronic low-level infections which live in our bodies. Unfortunately we do not have the medical technology to remove these infections. Antibiotics for example are good for addressing an acute infection flare up; but antibiotics cannot eliminate all the bacteria from your tissues and organs. 

 

Many nasty chronic diseases have been linked to viruses and bacteria in the diseased organs.

[Turnbuckle]

I think the results of no infections will not be earthshaking in a modern society with healthcare. Here is a paper that speaks of inflammation and longevity --

 

Pro-inflammatory immune responses are our first line of defence against infectious non-self. Inflammation however, has a cost. During the life-history of a human, low-grade inflammation, develops gradually and contributes to the pathogenesis of a range of age-related diseases from leaky gut to neurodegeneration. Conversely, ageing through cell senescence, can influence immune function with the depletion of the pool of naïve T-cells ready to respond to infection making older individuals more vulnerable to viral disease and less responsive to vaccination regimes. This can in turn, influence human lifespan. In the apparent complexity of this dual relationship it is difficult to arrive at a mechanism of causality because cause and consequence are intimately linked.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6535424/

 

Life in a bubble, with no germs at all, has some positive impact, but less than living with reduced calories...at least for mice--

 

An investigation was undertaken to study the effects of germfree (GF) status and mild food restriction on life span in GF and specific pathogen-free (SPF) male ICR mice either full-fed (ad libitum) or on a restricted diet of 4.5 grams per day (equivalent to approximately 80% of full-fed intake) from five-week-old. The mean life span of the full-fed SPF and GF mice was 75.9 and 88.9 weeks respectively, while the mean life span of the food-restricted SPF and GF mice was 117.5 and 109.6 weeks, respectively. Mice in both GF and SPF food-restricted groups were characterized by lower body weight and increased survival. These findings suggest that the cessation of growth may be importantly and perhaps causally related to longevity. The GF mice survived longer than the SPF mice, but the combination of GF status with food restriction did not seem to extend life span more than food restriction alone.

https://pubmed.ncbi....ih.gov/1748169/

 

 

Here is a paper that gives some background of the concept of gnotobiosis, in which there are no germs, or just one --

 

Historically, the concept of gnotobiosis, where all forms of life present within an organism are known, can be attributed to Louis Pasteur. In 1885, he speculated that animals lacking bacteria would not be able to survive because of the close synergistic evolution of microbes and their hosts (Pasteur, 1885; Gordon and Pesti, 1971). After the Second World War, and following the advent of antibiotics, a life without microbes became a popular topic of discussion (Kirk, 2012). By the 1960s, GF life was prominently featured in medical, scientific, and popular press, often represented as the futuristic mixture of fact and fiction. In the early years of space exploration, scientists recognized that extraterrestrial ventures could introduce terrestrial microorganisms to space and, conversely, extraterrestrial microorganisms to earth with potentially devastating outcomes (Wolfe, 2002; Kirk, 2012). It was thus suggested that GF men may be necessary to explore space. This idea entered public awareness with Michael Crichton’s The Andromeda Strain, which narrated a fictional battle against a deadly extraterrestrial pathogen introduced to earth as a result of man’s travels in space (Crichton, 1993). Life without microbes has continued to garner interest in popular culture, perhaps most notably with David Vetter, a patient with severe combined immunodeficiency who was raised isolated in sterile conditions and became known as the Bubble Boy (Lawrence, 1985; Kirk, 2012)...

 

The extent to which Pasteur was correct in his assertions of the importance of the microbiota for an organism’s health is now clear; GF animals are functionally and structurally abnormal across numerous body systems. GF research has revealed that the microbiota is necessary for normal aging and immune, metabolic, digestive, GI, and nervous system function (Grenham et al., 2011).

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5006193/

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 02 June 2022 - 07:07 PM.

[Michael Lustgarten]

There is ample evidence that infection and/or, microbial burden affects many of the hallmarks of aging, so I'd say yes:

 

Microbial Burden: A Major Cause Of Aging And Age-Related Disease

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01G48A88A

Edited by Michael Lustgarten, 05 June 2022 - 11:03 AM.

[Mind]

There is ample evidence that infection and/or, microbial burden affects many of the hallmarks of aging, so I'd say yes:

 

Microbial Burden: A Major Cause Of Aging And Age-Related Disease

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01G48A88A

 

Whether or not microbial burden affects the hallmarks of aging (current research says mostly yes), is not the question of this thread, but rather, would preventing infections help increase longevity. I say no.

 

Considering that we live in a constant milieu, stew, soup (or whatever adjective you prefer) of micro-organisms for our entire life, both inside and outside of our body, ingesting microbial life with every bite of food and every breath of our entire life, it seems like a bizarre quixotic quest to eliminate all infection. Trying to completely extricate yourself from the "natural" world, is as bizarre as staying young by going into cryonic stasis, right? Lower body temperature is correlated with slower aging, so why not stop aging altogether and go into cryostasis. You would never age.

 

Cure the infections, don't try to sterilize the environment (preventing infection).

[Hip]

Cure the infections, don't try to sterilize the environment (preventing infection).

 

Once an infection has taken grip in the body, it's impossible to remove it by current technology. This is true for viruses and bacteria.

 

Viruses have many ways of evading the immune response, and living inside your cells on a long term basis, where they can cause disease. Each of us is full of viruses and bacteria, and almost all of us will die via a chronic disease, which may be caused by these infections living in us.

 

The best bet at the moment is to develop more vaccines which prevent these viruses spreading among the population, and prevent you from catching a virus.

[Michael Lustgarten]

Whether or not microbial burden affects the hallmarks of aging (current research says mostly yes), is not the question of this thread, but rather, would preventing infections help increase longevity. I say no.

 

Considering that we live in a constant milieu, stew, soup (or whatever adjective you prefer) of micro-organisms for our entire life, both inside and outside of our body, ingesting microbial life with every bite of food and every breath of our entire life, it seems like a bizarre quixotic quest to eliminate all infection. Trying to completely extricate yourself from the "natural" world, is as bizarre as staying young by going into cryonic stasis, right? Lower body temperature is correlated with slower aging, so why not stop aging altogether and go into cryostasis. You would never age.

 

Cure the infections, don't try to sterilize the environment (preventing infection).

 

Yes, I agree, I would never favor sterilization, unless that involves selectively killing off "bad" microbes that have a definitive negative role on human health.

Edited by Michael Lustgarten, 12 June 2022 - 11:18 AM.