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Best sunscreens in the U.S on the market today?


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#1 jackie100

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Posted 14 June 2008 - 09:37 AM


From reading the topics on here about sunscreens it appears as if the "best" sunscreens in the U.S today are

Neutrogena with Helioplex
L'oreal/Lancome with Mexoryl
La Roche Posay w/Mexoryl

Are there any other great sunscreens available in the U.S that are photostable and protect against UVA and UVB or are those basically the best ones?????

Also, I hate it how high end brands like Clinique or Chanel or Dior don't have photostable sunscreens in their creams and don't offer enough protection.
And the few ones that DO such as Lancome are just sunscreens and not a "day cream with a photostable sunscreen." My ideal cream would be one
with antioxidants that is highly moisturizing but also with a photostable sunscreen.

Edited by jackie100, 14 June 2008 - 09:38 AM.


#2 jackie100

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Posted 14 June 2008 - 01:23 PM

Also, the thing I don't like about Anthelios is that it doesn't have anti oxidants.

What would be better,

1. Using Anthelios SX Daily SPF 15 moisturizing lotion by itself
2. Using Clinique continuous rescue anti oxidant moisturizer and then Anthelios SX Daily SPF 15 moisturizing lotion on top or
3. Using Clinique continuous rescue anti oxidant moisturizer with a Neutrogena dry touch sunscreen with helioplex on top

?? Also, I do wear CE ferulic underneath all of this too and also makeup on top of the sunscreen so that's a lot of stuff on my face.






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#3 Eva Victoria

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Posted 14 June 2008 - 06:46 PM

Option 2 would be the best for you if you don't want to buy an EU marketed sunscreen from La Roche Posay.
Spf 15 is not high enough for adequate UVA protection though.
Anthelios does have antioxidants (it is based on the thermalwater from La Roche Posay that is rich in minerals esp. selenium).

Also, the thing I don't like about Anthelios is that it doesn't have anti oxidants.

What would be better,

1. Using Anthelios SX Daily SPF 15 moisturizing lotion by itself
2. Using Clinique continuous rescue anti oxidant moisturizer and then Anthelios SX Daily SPF 15 moisturizing lotion on top or
3. Using Clinique continuous rescue anti oxidant moisturizer with a Neutrogena dry touch sunscreen with helioplex on top

?? Also, I do wear CE ferulic underneath all of this too and also makeup on top of the sunscreen so that's a lot of stuff on my face.






#4 cillakat

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Posted 14 June 2008 - 08:19 PM

(will post an intro in a minute)

The US sunscreen offerings, when considered by UVA protection are still fairly paltry. I'd love to be able to buy locally....for ease of access as much as anything else. I tend to leave sunscreen everywhere I go - which means I need to buy more fairly constantly.

While the US options have gotten better as Copperton, HT, Neutrogena and Banana Boat have all moved towards stabilized avobenzone for UVA protection (though they still all have some non stable formulations iirc), they still don't come close to what one can get from a euro s/s containing both tinosorbs. And the vast majority of US screens with reasonable PPD contain oxybenzone. Something I'd like to avoid for my own health, definitely won't use it on my kids, and dont' really want to be rinsing/washing a known endocrine disruptor into our lakes, rivers, streams and oceans.

The new(ish) L'oreal/Cosmair offerings containing mexoryl sx are certainly a step in the right direction, but still, compared to both tinosorbs, they miss a lot of important UVA protection (or so my skin tells me....i hyperpigment very very quickly with all but the most highly protective s/s reapplied multiple times per day)



LRP Anthelios SX is liked by many
Lancome has a mexoryl sx s/s now...slightly more whitening and thicker than the Anthelios SX but not as shiny from what i hear.
L'oreal Revitalift UV is reported to be the lightest of the three but it's as expensive or more expensive than most euro s/s of greater protection.

Banana Boat UltraMist Kids Spray 30 is a shiny, oily continuous spray mist product that contains no oxybenzone.



for those who do not like the shine/oil:
Avene Emulsion 50+ is quite matte. Too matte for me in fact. I find it uncomfortably drying.

LRP Anthelios Dermo-Pediatrics 40 spray was universally loved. Three bottles are currently remaining from my Firenze stash. I use it on my neck as it doesn't rub off on clothing. LRP has now discontinued it and replaced it with Anthelios Dermo-Pediatrics 50 *spray* which is a shinier continuous spray/mist product. great for kids, easy to apply (still needs to be rubbed in though). no oxybenzone.

On my face, I use Bioderma MAX lait 50+/PPD 35 (was labeled 100 until EU regs changed that) with a drop of Bioderma MAX tinted cream 50+ to take care of any white cast. I love love love Bioderma Anti-Age 30 spf/30ppd. However, it's hard too find and is $30 for one measly ounce. When i use it, i mix it half half with my max lait. it dries down to a great finish for me (will be too shiny for some). but i wont' use a s/s that's going to last me about 10 days (b/c of reapplications). So i save it for times when cosmetic elegance is more imporant....and still mix it with the lait.

Mixing with Bioderma MAX fluide also gives great cosmetic elegance and helps diffuse costs....as the fluide can be found for around $20/40 mL.

With all but the Anti-Age, i need to use a bit of the tinted cream to deal with the white effect.

i no longer wear body s/s.....just long sleeves, sun protective jacket etc.....Foxgloves gloves all the time. When i do swim, I wear a swimshirt, apply vv waterproof sunscreen (like lrp dermo-pediatrics....any of them) and leave my legs unprotected. To offset my sundeprivation, I take about 2000 IU D per day to maintain 25(OH)D levels of 50-55 ng/mL (always right around 52-54)

Apparently there's also a Garnier Kids Spray either 30 or 40 that's very similar in wearability to the old LRP d-p. It can be found on ebay.co.uk

;)
katherine

#5 cillakat

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Posted 14 June 2008 - 08:29 PM

The current L'oreal/Cosmair mexoryl sx options (anthelios, lancome, l'oreal) all have a ppd of about 15 which is Very Good uva protection by most standards. It is vastly superior to anything that was available here until recently. And until US mfg's figured out how to stabilize avobenzone (with octocrylene) and quite *destabilizing* avobenzone (with octinoxate), there was nothing that came close to 15. Now there are 10-15 ppd's available.

the neutrogena likely has a ppd of about 19 (though it's been disputed). Carol Demas' book _Sunscreens_ covers tremendous ground on this subject including a lot of information from direct conversations she had with neutrogena scientists.

Of available sunscreens, there are no US products above 20 PPD.....and while many of us are very familiar with the 20+ PPD euro products, they are a relatively small group as a percent of totally available products.

Personally, I do see a big difference when wearing ppd 25 or above - esp when it's both tinosorbs (best protection in the 360nm++ range) but I wouldn't go so far as to say that PPD of 15 isn't 'high enough'. It's significant.

IMESHO, we shouldn't be counting on sunscreen to provide atioxidants. That should come from 1)internal protection from eating mostly dark/bright produce and 2)topical targeted antioxidants like CE ferulic or skinmedica C complex or whatever it is that your wallet and skin tolerate.

Carol Demas' book _Make your own effective cosmetic treatments_ is wonderful for anyone wanting to DIY w/ E, C, Ferulic etc
http://www.cafepress...iochem.30393410

;)
katherine

#6 jackie100

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Posted 14 June 2008 - 11:21 PM

Thank you so much for your advice Cillkat and Eve, that was so healthful.

Sorry but I just had another really quick question. What do you guys think is a better antioxidant moisturizer, the clinique one or this one by
DHC "Q10 coenzyme cream" (it has really good reviews online). I can't find the ingredients online but it has better reviews from users vs the clinique
cream although I do know tha the clinique one is packed with antioxidants...

Also, do you guys know if it's bad to use a makeup primer and/or powder containing silica on top of sunscreen? I read that the ingredients in makeup primer can inactivate avobenzone and that silica can as well. I usually use primer before foundation to set it. I never use powder directly on top of my sunscreen but on top of my foundation. Do you think that would affect the sunscreen? From an article on Makeupalley it says :

"There is some evidence that uncoated TiO2 and ZnO can degrade avobenzone13 14 so it is best not to layer makeup with uncoated physical filters or OMC with an avobenzone-containing sunscreen. The only way to be assured your make-up uses coated filters is to ask the manufacturer. Two popular grades of coated TiO2 and ZnO are made by BASF and coated with Trimethoxycaprylylsilane and Triethoxycaprylylsilane respectively, so if you see the latter two names in the ingredient list, it is likely the filters are coated. In my opinion, applying oil-absorbing substances such as starches, silica, talc, etc. over sunscreen could possibly have an adverse effect on protection, so I would recommend applying coated ZnO (such as Z-Cote HP1) as a mattifier. More info here. "

Also, are there any other great anti oxidant creams I should consider besides the clinique and dhc one? Thanks

#7 cillakat

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Posted 15 June 2008 - 03:08 AM

<<Sorry but I just had another really quick question. What do you guys think is a better antioxidant moisturizer, the clinique one or this one by
DHC "Q10 coenzyme cream">>

I'd actually go with the research proven/supported combo of C, E and Ferulic over the clinique or DHC. And if you really want to use Q10, consider a Bieirsdorf Q10 product as they literally 'wrote the book' on Q10 in skincare.

To quote Carol Demas.....on a scale of one to ten here's how various skincare ranks:

1000 the mostly highly UVA protective sunscreen you can obtain and tolerate (applied at proper use rates)

10 an rx retinoid applied

3 ascorbic acid topically
2 other antioxidants (Q10, green tea, MAP, SAP etc)
1 everything else (cleansers, peels etc)



"Also, do you guys know if it's bad to use a makeup primer and/or powder containing silica on top of sunscreen? "

some would say so....or would theorize so. i'd put as little as possible over the sunscreen. if you absolutely can't *bear* to go without something over it, conisder first using coated minerals like aromaleigh glissade - silicone coated mineral powder.



"Also, are there any other great anti oxidant creams I should consider besides the clinique and dhc one? Thanks "

first and foremost i'd consider ascorbic acid. there is a huge body of evidence supporting it's use as an effective topical. it's easy and inexpensive to make effective C topicals yourself, or you can purchase skinceuticals ce ferulic, skin medica c complex, or many of the other c preparations available. in a serum form, penetration will often be more effective than in a moisturizer form due to the vehicle.

apply antioxidant serum....wait 20 min.....moisturizer only if necessary...wait, then s/s. if you must apply makeup over s/s (and consider carefully if you do), then wait another 20 min,then apply.

for those of us engaging in sun avoidant behavior and for most others living a modern life, working indoors etc, taking sufficient vitamin D3 from supplements is critical. most will need around 2000 IU per day, some more, some less.

;)
k

#8 jackie100

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Posted 15 June 2008 - 04:27 AM

thanks cillakat, actually I already use CE ferulic... First I wash my face, apply CE Ferulic, wait, then apply the skinceuticals B5 hydrating gel... I was looking for an additional moisturizer to use on top before using the sunscreen (La Roche Posay) because I use retinols at night and it drys up my skin. I was debating between the Clinique Antioxidant one vs the DHC Q10 cream. I ended up getting the Clinique one today at Sephora. I hope I like it.

I have read that CE Ferulic protects you against the sun even more and has a lot of scientific evidence to back it up so I bought that one right away. I just wanted an additional moisturizer with even more antioxidants on top of that underneath my sunscreen and makeup. I hope that's not TOO much antioxidants and that my skin won't "overdose" on it.

My skin is clear and I have no acne/scars but I just love to weark makeup, I feel like I can't do without it, it just makes me happy... Sounds crazy but it does, I don't wear heavy foundations, only sheer coverage stuff but I need foundation because I like my skin to look poreless and flawless/airbrushed and sometimes I like to look "glowy".

Edited by jackie100, 15 June 2008 - 04:31 AM.


#9 Eva Victoria

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Posted 15 June 2008 - 02:38 PM

I would rather go for Clinique Continous Resque Antioxidant Moisturizer.
It contains EUKARION-134 which is a very stable antioxidant complex with renewable qualities (chalating antioxidant). It is built up by several antioxidants that together make a more stable antioxidant which also last longer than one antioxidant alone like VitC (without VitE) or Idebenone or Q10.
This is crutial for an antioxidant to be ale to perform its job.
This Clinique creme is a bit strange in consistency but one can get use to it. It is also possible that you use it as a serum in a thin layer.
(I have to say if there is one thing to recommend from the cosmetic world then it would be this product from Clinique and Sunscreens -since they are regulated as cosmetics in the EU not OTC as in the US-containing Tinosorb or Mexoryl)

(On EUKARION please see my previous posts where you can also find the studies on EUK).

http://www.imminst.o...134-t20382.html


http://www.nature.co...ml#figure-title

I agree with Katherine on that Ascorbic Acid is a very good add to your skincare regime (preferably with Vit.E for more stability). But as long as you are using C+E+Ferulic you won't need to think of this.

About make-up over sunscreen: I never heard of that TiO2 or ZnO (common ingredients in powder/foundation and sunscreens) would destabilize AVO (if it is already stabilized by Octocrylene or Tinosorb). It is also allowed in the EU to mix AVO with physical particles (ZnO, TiO2) in a sunscreen. Even though it is forbidden in the US (by the FDA).

So I would not worry about applying powder/foundation above sunscreen (they would even add to your longUVA protection). Even though you should wait to apply the above till the sunscreen is fully dry.

Thank you so much for your advice Cillkat and Eve, that was so healthful.

Sorry but I just had another really quick question. What do you guys think is a better antioxidant moisturizer, the clinique one or this one by
DHC "Q10 coenzyme cream" (it has really good reviews online). I can't find the ingredients online but it has better reviews from users vs the clinique
cream although I do know tha the clinique one is packed with antioxidants...

Also, do you guys know if it's bad to use a makeup primer and/or powder containing silica on top of sunscreen? I read that the ingredients in makeup primer can inactivate avobenzone and that silica can as well. I usually use primer before foundation to set it. I never use powder directly on top of my sunscreen but on top of my foundation. Do you think that would affect the sunscreen? From an article on Makeupalley it says :

"There is some evidence that uncoated TiO2 and ZnO can degrade avobenzone13 14 so it is best not to layer makeup with uncoated physical filters or OMC with an avobenzone-containing sunscreen. The only way to be assured your make-up uses coated filters is to ask the manufacturer. Two popular grades of coated TiO2 and ZnO are made by BASF and coated with Trimethoxycaprylylsilane and Triethoxycaprylylsilane respectively, so if you see the latter two names in the ingredient list, it is likely the filters are coated. In my opinion, applying oil-absorbing substances such as starches, silica, talc, etc. over sunscreen could possibly have an adverse effect on protection, so I would recommend applying coated ZnO (such as Z-Cote HP1) as a mattifier. More info here. "

Also, are there any other great anti oxidant creams I should consider besides the clinique and dhc one? Thanks


Edited by Eva Victoria, 15 June 2008 - 02:49 PM.


#10 jackie100

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 07:20 AM

Thank you so much for your thorough and in depth explanation of EUK-134 Eva Victoria. I didn't even know that the Clinique cream contained that.
I bought the tube for combination skin and so far my skin seems ok with it, no break outs or anything like that and I like the feel of it on my face.

I have to say though, the La Roche SX Anthelios cream is very very moisturizing. I don't recommend it for people with oily skin but it works for me because I use
a retinol cream at night which tends to make me peel a bit and dry my skin out so it actually works for me.

All in all I am happy so far my choice with the Clinique anti oxidant cream and La Roche sunscreen on top of that. Before that I was using Chanel Rectifiance as my day cream with SPF 15 but I don't think that it even protected against UVA rays, probably only UVB and I'm sure it wasn't photostable either. It's so misleading that a lot of sunscreens don't protect from UVA rays. When I was youngr I just automatically assumed that all sunscreens protect against UVA's. I never even heard of such thing as
"photostable" sunscreens. If I only knew that earlier I could have protected my skin even more.

#11 Kingston

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 07:47 AM

Agree, great stuff on EUK-134 Eva. I've been thinking about using Clinique Continuous Rescue Antioxidant Moisturizer along with my CE Ferulic. I'm currently using Oil of Olay Total Effects as my moisturizer, mainly for the niacinamide that Dr. Leslie Baumann raves about. Do you think its worth a switch? I saw the Clinique product had niacinamide listed down in the ingredients, and im hoping that I can get the benefits of both.

Hows the sunscreen coming along Eva??? I saw that you developed your own formula. Keep us posted!

Lastly, does anyone know the ppd of Anthelios SX?? I've been using it as my sunscreen when I'm indoors or in the car, but use the Bioderma for when outside. Hoping it can give fair amount of UVA protection

#12 Eva Victoria

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 01:44 PM

Agree, great stuff on EUK-134 Eva. I've been thinking about using Clinique Continuous Rescue Antioxidant Moisturizer along with my CE Ferulic. I'm currently using Oil of Olay Total Effects as my moisturizer, mainly for the niacinamide that Dr. Leslie Baumann raves about. Do you think its worth a switch? I saw the Clinique product had niacinamide listed down in the ingredients, and im hoping that I can get the benefits of both.

I would defenetely go for Clinique or any other product that contain EUK-134 (though I don't know anything else).

Hows the sunscreen coming along Eva??? I saw that you developed your own formula. Keep us posted!

I'll do ;)

Lastly, does anyone know the ppd of Anthelios SX?? I've been using it as my sunscreen when I'm indoors or in the car, but use the Bioderma for when outside. Hoping it can give fair amount of UVA protection

Anthelios in the US has approx. PPD8 (not as good as Bioderma though). It should be good enough in the summer the North as an every-day-sunscreen when you are not much outside, I believe.



#13 Eva Victoria

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 03:02 PM

The sad truth is that even though you knew more about UVA protection you would not have had much choice about it. Unless you would have wanted to go around with very white face that was painted with thick ZnO-paste :(

It is only lately that it is possible to have a good UVA protection from sunscreens.


Thank you so much for your thorough and in depth explanation of EUK-134 Eva Victoria. I didn't even know that the Clinique cream contained that.
I bought the tube for combination skin and so far my skin seems ok with it, no break outs or anything like that and I like the feel of it on my face.

I have to say though, the La Roche SX Anthelios cream is very very moisturizing. I don't recommend it for people with oily skin but it works for me because I use
a retinol cream at night which tends to make me peel a bit and dry my skin out so it actually works for me.

All in all I am happy so far my choice with the Clinique anti oxidant cream and La Roche sunscreen on top of that. Before that I was using Chanel Rectifiance as my day cream with SPF 15 but I don't think that it even protected against UVA rays, probably only UVB and I'm sure it wasn't photostable either. It's so misleading that a lot of sunscreens don't protect from UVA rays. When I was youngr I just automatically assumed that all sunscreens protect against UVA's. I never even heard of such thing as
"photostable" sunscreens. If I only knew that earlier I could have protected my skin even more.



#14 Ben

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 10:43 AM

The sad truth is that even though you knew more about UVA protection you would not have had much choice about it. Unless you would have wanted to go around with very white face that was painted with thick ZnO-paste :(

It is only lately that it is possible to have a good UVA protection from sunscreens.


Thank you so much for your thorough and in depth explanation of EUK-134 Eva Victoria. I didn't even know that the Clinique cream contained that.
I bought the tube for combination skin and so far my skin seems ok with it, no break outs or anything like that and I like the feel of it on my face.

I have to say though, the La Roche SX Anthelios cream is very very moisturizing. I don't recommend it for people with oily skin but it works for me because I use
a retinol cream at night which tends to make me peel a bit and dry my skin out so it actually works for me.

All in all I am happy so far my choice with the Clinique anti oxidant cream and La Roche sunscreen on top of that. Before that I was using Chanel Rectifiance as my day cream with SPF 15 but I don't think that it even protected against UVA rays, probably only UVB and I'm sure it wasn't photostable either. It's so misleading that a lot of sunscreens don't protect from UVA rays. When I was youngr I just automatically assumed that all sunscreens protect against UVA's. I never even heard of such thing as
"photostable" sunscreens. If I only knew that earlier I could have protected my skin even more.



The UV here in winter hovers around 1 (that's in full day light and at it's highest peak). I check the uv regularly.

In summer it gets crazy like 14 at it's peak, maybe higher. That's why aussies (especially queenslanders) look raggedy over a certain age.

edit: http://www.bom.gov.a...ourne_VIC.shtml

Edited by Ben - Aus, 17 June 2008 - 10:44 AM.


#15 Eva Victoria

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 02:03 PM

If it is around 1 in the winter, then you don't have to bother about sunscreens at all! :)


The sad truth is that even though you knew more about UVA protection you would not have had much choice about it. Unless you would have wanted to go around with very white face that was painted with thick ZnO-paste :(

It is only lately that it is possible to have a good UVA protection from sunscreens.


Thank you so much for your thorough and in depth explanation of EUK-134 Eva Victoria. I didn't even know that the Clinique cream contained that.
I bought the tube for combination skin and so far my skin seems ok with it, no break outs or anything like that and I like the feel of it on my face.

I have to say though, the La Roche SX Anthelios cream is very very moisturizing. I don't recommend it for people with oily skin but it works for me because I use
a retinol cream at night which tends to make me peel a bit and dry my skin out so it actually works for me.

All in all I am happy so far my choice with the Clinique anti oxidant cream and La Roche sunscreen on top of that. Before that I was using Chanel Rectifiance as my day cream with SPF 15 but I don't think that it even protected against UVA rays, probably only UVB and I'm sure it wasn't photostable either. It's so misleading that a lot of sunscreens don't protect from UVA rays. When I was youngr I just automatically assumed that all sunscreens protect against UVA's. I never even heard of such thing as
"photostable" sunscreens. If I only knew that earlier I could have protected my skin even more.



The UV here in winter hovers around 1 (that's in full day light and at it's highest peak). I check the uv regularly.

In summer it gets crazy like 14 at it's peak, maybe higher. That's why aussies (especially queenslanders) look raggedy over a certain age.

edit: http://www.bom.gov.a...ourne_VIC.shtml



#16 VictorBjoerk

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 12:57 AM

Are there no way of restoring sun-damaged skin by plastic surgery just like they remove veins etc..........

#17 Ben

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 04:22 AM

If it is around 1 in the winter, then you don't have to bother about sunscreens at all! :p



What are you serious? I thought that even that amount of UV is damaging. I'm confused. So one is ok?

Is there somewhere on the web that compares UV index number to damage done?

#18 Eva Victoria

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 03:52 PM

When you see the explanation of the UV-index it says that 1-2 harmless, you can stay outside without protection.
2-3 protection is not necessary..... On this one I don't agree though. I think a good UVA protection is adviseable. UVA is always higher than UVB (UV-index is based on the UVB).

http://www.britishsk.....ex Poster.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UV_Index

http://www.who.int/u.../en/index2.html


UV Index Description Media Graphic Color Recommended Protection
0–2 No danger to the average person Green Wear sunglasses; use sunscreen if there is snow on the ground, which reflects UV radiation, or if you have particularly fair skin.
3–5 little risk of harm from unprotected sun exposure Yellow Wear sunglasses and use sunscreen, cover the body with clothing and a hat, and seek shade around midday when the sun is most intense.
6–7 High risk of harm from unprotected sun exposure Orange Wear sunglasses and use sunscreen having SPF 15 or higher, cover the body with sun protective clothing and a wide-brim hat, and reduce time in the sun from two hours before to three hours after solar noon (roughly 10:00 AM to 4:00 PM during summer in zones that observe daylight saving time).
8–10 Very high risk of harm from unprotected sun exposure Red Wear sunscreen, a shirt, sunglasses, and a hat. Do not stay out in the sun for too long.
11+ Extreme risk of harm from unprotected sun exposure Violet Take all precautions, including: wear sunglasses and use sunscreen, cover the body with a long-sleeve shirt and trousers, wear a very broad hat, and avoid the sun from two hours before to three hours after solar noon





If it is around 1 in the winter, then you don't have to bother about sunscreens at all! :p



What are you serious? I thought that even that amount of UV is damaging. I'm confused. So one is ok?

Is there somewhere on the web that compares UV index number to damage done?


Edited by Eva Victoria, 20 June 2008 - 04:05 PM.





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