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TheFirstImmortal ImmInst administered PayPal Account


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#1 Mind

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 09:06 PM


Many people have suggested creating a central account for donations to thefirstimmortal's cancer fighting needs. I have created the following paypal account:

orights.cancer.cryonics.fund@gmail.com

Right now, it is not set-up to accept credit card payments, because I am unsure how to set that up (any suggestions of help would be much appreciated). So use your paypal account for the time being.

I added the "cryonics" part, just in case that would be needed. Any leftover funds could go toward suspension costs.

Shannon (Imminst Chairperson) will be the administrator of the account. William will record and submit to Shannon what supplements he needs and she will make the purchases and have them delivered to him.

#2 Mind

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 10:47 PM

All donations are tax deductible. William has a tax form available for those who wish to deduct.

#3 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 05:07 AM

All donations are tax deductible. William has a tax form available for those who wish to deduct.


Mind, I PMed the following to you;

Hi Mind,
I reviewed the thread and post. You might want to add that any donation is tax deductible. I may even have a form or format that you can use to send a donor so they have a paper for the IRS. I can see if I can locate that for you if you wish.

Live Long and Well
Bill

I didn't hear back from you, but I did locate that document I was talking about. It is a format that Immortality Institute can use if any donations happen to come in, just make the appropriate changes. Listed in next post.

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 18 August 2008 - 05:08 AM.


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#4 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 06:05 AM

Receipt for Donation

Received from (name of individual or business) on (date), a contribution of (list the items donated) to help the (charitable cause).

Received By: _(print name)_______

Date: ________________________

Signature______________________

Title: _________________________

Nonprofit tax identification number:______________________

Receipt for Donation - example

Received from ABC Printing and Stationary on August 15, 2000, a tax deductible contribution of 150 number tags, copying services for 2,000 flyers, and 15 large poster boards to help Northwest High School and Middlewood WomenÆs Shelter.

Nonprofit tax identification number: 5477-12 û 5732.

Received By: Samantha Row

Signature______________________

Title: Action Club Pres, Northwest H.S.



#5 Mind

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 01:43 AM

I put a hundred in to get things started.

If you have 5 or 10 bucks just laying around, please consider donating to William's fund.

#6 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 06:12 AM

I put a hundred in to get things started.

If you have 5 or 10 bucks just laying around, please consider donating to William's fund.


Thank you Mind.

This is off topic, but I found the letter you wrote to me while I was in the hospital. :)

#7 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 12:02 AM

I just found this over in Cryonet. Thought you should be aware of it Mind.

X-Message-Number: 30957
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:58:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: david pizer <pizerdavid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Why we can't take Paypal

Concerning the O'Rights fund raising martin@olah.net said:
"I think it would help if there was a Paypal account for contributions."



I would agree with Martin that if Paypal worked like it should that would be
helpful. But the Venturists have had a lot of trouble with Paypal when we used
them in the past. When we were collecting money for Marce, Paypal froze all the
money in the Venturist Paypal account and would not pass it through to us. It
took us months of hard work to finally get them to release the money. The
process of dealing with them was aggravating as they seemed very hostile to
cryonics and also they were having trouble from the feds on all the Paypal
accounts they allow to collect money that have 501c3 designation.


I speculate they got into some kind of trouble concerning 501c3 accounts and
rather then do the work to straighten in all out they just froze money in those
accounts (to satisfy the feds and keep from getting fines to themselves for
wrongly hanlding the 501C3 money) and made us do the work they should have been
doing.


Further, I suspect that they have not yet straightened out their problems with
regulations concerning how they handle 501c3 organizations' money and either
they or the feds could confiscate the money again. If the feds confiscate the
money, for Paypal not following fed laws or whatever the problem is, we might
never get it back.


I hope that anyone who would send money using Paypal to help Mr. O'Rights will
still send the money direct to the Venturists using a check (or cheque if out of
the country).

Sincerely,

David Pizer
For the Venturists

#8 Mind

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 07:41 PM

I sent a message to cryonet about Paypal, explaining that the Institue has not had any trouble with Paypal and the IRS and we have been using it for over 6 years now, however, I must have done something wrong because it never showed up in the cryonet digest.

Maybe you can post the text William.

The Immortality Institute has been using Paypal for 6 years. It is a 501©(3) and has had no trouble. We currently have a paypal account orights.cancer.cryonics.fund@gmail.com up and running for some donations. Money will go to any supplements he needs to battle cancer and stay alive as long as possible with any leftover going toward suspension costs if needed.

Justin Loew
Immortality Institute



#9 Mind

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 09:34 PM

Many thanks to Robert C. for 50 pounds (=90.55 USD) into the fund.

#10 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 10:06 PM

Please note the following information if you are planning on donating to William O'Rights papal account, administered by ImmInst.

Write in the notes with your donation, or send me an PM or email--if you would like your money going to cryonic suspension, or going towards supplements for William to fight the cancer. You can designate the full proceeds towards either, or designate an amount towards each option.

Here is the paypal account email for William O'Rights:

orights.cancer.cryonics.fund@gmail.com


(This was set up by ImmInst for him, the proceeds will be going to the Venturist's fund, or if not enough is raised for his suspension then Marce's. In Marce's case anyone that contributed will get their money back if Marce is not suspended, unless they noted otherwise and wanted the Venturists to keep it for future charity work, or cryonics support).



The following issue is open to comment from all ImmInst members, as well as Membership:

Should we put the paypal account fund ImmInst created and is administrating for William O' Rights, on our front page?

Thanks,
Shannon Vyff Chair of Immortality Institute

#11 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 03:56 AM

Please note the following information if you are planning on donating to William O'Rights papal account, administered by ImmInst.

(This was set up by ImmInst for him, the proceeds will be going to the Venturist's fund, or if not enough is raised for his suspension then Marce's. In Marce's case anyone that contributed will get their money back if Marce is not suspended, unless they noted otherwise and wanted the Venturists to keep it for future charity work, or cryonics support).

The following issue is open to comment from all ImmInst members, as well as Membership:


Hi Shannon,
I posted the following on Cryonet regarding what happens in case of a shortfall.


Hi Shannon,

I hate to correct you on this, but that is not what was represented to the donors. Message Number: 30880
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:40:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: david pizer < pizerdavid@yahoo.com>

Subject: Chance to help cryonicists in trouble

The Venturist policy is as follows:

If for some reason Mr. O'Rights is not suspended at legal death we will refund
the contribution to the contributor UNLESS the contributor instructs us to use
it for some other similar charity venture, for instance the suspension of
another person who needed financial help.


All donations go to the cause they are intended for!

Shannon, I’m certainly not opposed to the money going to Marce, I have already made my feelings on that matter well known at Imminst, but the policy for this has already been put forth. It is for the Donor to decide what happens to the donation if I do not make it. By default Shannon, they get their money back.

Live Long and Well
William C. O'Rights
The First Immortal

#12 Matthias

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 11:21 AM

According to this thread in the full member area, it's possible to define the purpose of the donation like this, or a subset of it:

for example:

1.) supplements for William O'Rights
If that project gets cancelled, then:
2.) cryonic suspension for William O'Rights
If that project gets cancelled, then:
3.) cryonic suspension for Marce Johnson


(overview-thread)

Attached Files


Edited by Matthias, 29 August 2008 - 06:39 PM.


#13 Matthias

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 11:41 AM

The following issue is open to comment from all ImmInst members, as well as Membership:

Should we put the paypal account fund ImmInst created and is administrating for William O' Rights, on our front page?


vote=yes


btw, there is another paypal-thread outside the members forum.

(overview-thread)


#14 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 12:56 PM

btw, there is another paypal-thread outside the members forum.

(overview-thread)

Actually, shouldn't this thread be moved into the public domain?

#15 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 01:26 PM

I sent a message to cryonet about Paypal, explaining that the Institue has not had any trouble with Paypal and the IRS and we have been using it for over 6 years now, however, I must have done something wrong because it never showed up in the cryonet digest.

Maybe you can post the text William.

The Immortality Institute has been using Paypal for 6 years. It is a 501©(3) and has had no trouble. We currently have a paypal account orights.cancer.cryonics.fund@gmail.com up and running for some donations. Money will go to any supplements he needs to battle cancer and stay alive as long as possible with any leftover going toward suspension costs if needed.

Justin Loew
Immortality Institute

Done, I reposted this for you. Usually takes a day or so to show up.

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 29 August 2008 - 01:27 PM.


#16 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 01:49 PM

(overview-thread)

The overview page Matthias, well done. :|o

#17 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 01:59 PM

1.) supplements for William O'Rights
If that project gets cancelled, then:
2.) cryonic suspension for William O'Rights
If that project gets cancelled, then:
3.) cryonic suspension for Marce Johnson

This seems confusing. It appears that all donations will first go to supplements and doesn't seem to offer a choice between the two options of supplements and suspension.

And there may be a few issues with the wording, "If that project gets cancelled" :|o

#18 Matthias

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 06:31 PM

yes sry, it looks strange. I wanted to express :

priority 1.) supplements for William O'Rights
priority 2.) cryonic suspension for William O'Rights
priority 3.) cryonic suspension for Marce Johnson

because these 3 purposes and some kind of need to express them explicitly were mentioned in the other paypal thread. But perhaps I have misunderstood it. I didn't want to make it more complicated than necessary.

Edited by Matthias, 29 August 2008 - 06:38 PM.


#19 caliban

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 04:58 PM

Firstly, I have merged another two threads relating to this initiative.
We really have to stop having threads and discussions running concurrently to the same discussion.


Now please note:
The Immortality has no official capacity to be the legal custodian of funds that are donated to support William Constitution O'Rights fight against cancer by supplying him with nutritional supplements.
The Institute can run newsitems and discussions pertaining to that issue, and we can allow people to solicit donations.
BUT we cannot oversee an account for that purpose, handle donations for that purpose, ensure that donations are spent responsibly and in line with the donors wishes, or make any warranties or representations whatsoever about whether or not money donated for that purpose is invested wisely.
Specifically, the Institute does not endorse any assertions that taking nutritional supplements may have a beneficial effect for cancer sufferers.

If you wish to donate to Bill in order to subsidize the purchase of nutritional supplements, please donate to him directly.

It so happens that two key members of ImmInst leadership (our Executive Director and our Chair of the Board) are personally in favor of this charitable giving. However, until sanctioned by a board vote this initiative should not be misconstrued as an official ImmInst project.


On a personal note:
Millions of people are dying of cancer right now. What makes this case different is that William O'Rights is a long-standing member of this community.
It brings home to many of us how urgent our aim to conquer the blight of involuntary death really is. I find the response by the community to Bills plight tremendously inspiring. Bereft of the empty formula "I'll pray for you", members are turning to science, researching studies, quoting the literature thinking vigorously, imaginatively and practically about the problem at hand. Watching this case from afar has made me proud to be an Immortalist, and proud to have such peers. However, Imminst has its limits. We are working to grow in capacity and expertise. Maybe this case has already taught us a lot that may be useful in the future. But as it stands and on an ad-hoc basis, we do not have the capacity to legally vet charitable donations for this purpose. We do not have the requisite experience, expertise and assurances in place to setup a system that is 100% proof against allegations of wrongful conduct.
I also don't think it is necessary that ImmInst gets involved at that level. Those who want to donate to Bill directly can do so.
Bill - you know ImmInst better than many, I hope you'll take the above statements for what they are - not a personal attack, not a withdrawal of support and sympathy, but a clear assessment what the Institute can and cannot do at this stage of its evolution. We are all rooting for you in your fight against the Grim Reaper.

#20 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 04:08 AM

The Immortality has no official capacity to be the legal custodian of funds that are donated to support William Constitution O'Rights fight against cancer by supplying him with nutritional supplements.

Where is the Immortality Institutes policy that speaks against this?

#21 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 06:54 AM

The Institute can run newsitems and discussions pertaining to that issue, and we can allow people to solicit donations.
BUT we cannot oversee an account for that purpose,

Cannot or will not? And again, based on what?

#22 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 07:19 AM

The Institute… cannot… ensure that donations are spent responsibly and in line with the donors wishes, or make any warranties or representations whatsoever about whether or not money donated for that purpose is invested wisely.


Really??? Amazing. This isn’t rocket science Caliban, the undertaking conceptually couldn’t any easier. This organization may run a fundraiser for charitable giving (unless some policy is against it) and collect money. It may then perform a charitable act.
The organization can have donors give thru pay pal and then provide the gift of vitamins. Whatever do you mean when you say The Institute cannot “ensure that donations are spent responsibly and in line with the donors wishes,” Donors who give for the vitamin effort expect there money will go to some form of vitamin. Donors who give for the cryonics fund expect that the Society of Venturism will receive the funds. You can’t ensure that those wishes will be respected? Immortality institute can’t be trusted with the donors money. I find that hard to believe.

#23 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 07:45 AM

But as it stands and on an ad-hoc basis, we do not have the capacity to legally vet charitable donations for this purpose.

I’m not sure I understand this quote. Could explain this a little more thoroughly?


We do not have the requisite experience, expertise and assurances in place to setup a system that is 100% proof against allegations of wrongful conduct.


You don’t, well, happily for you Anthony over at RevGenetics set up a program to collect funds. Why don’t you just copy his system? It’s open so that people can see both the incoming amounts and every order is publicly posted for everyone to see. How much experience do you think this takes? How much expertise do you think is involved? As far as a business model is concerned, it’s about one notch above operating a lemonade stand.

#24 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 07:56 AM

I’m not finished responding to this, not by a long shot. But that’s all I got in me for tonight. To be continued… :)

#25 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 08:08 AM

Oh, just one more.

Caliban, you clearly did not read this, although it was intended for you.
http://www.imminst.o...&...st&p=253657

I addressed your issues on 29-Jul 2008, 12:18 PM, and my post fell on deaf ears. Do you care to answer these questions now?

#26 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 12:34 PM

Good Mourning

Attached Files

  • Attached File  04.gif   275bytes   0 downloads

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 03 September 2008 - 12:36 PM.


#27 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 02:12 PM

Hey Mind. I know the paypal fees have been an issue in general. I posted the following in the cryonet thread, but I thought this data might be useful to the organization in general, aside from the current issue of pay pal.

X-Message-Number: 30964
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:14:28 -0400
From: jhinek@gmail.com
Subject: Paypal alt: Google for non-profis

Here's one alternative to Paypal (and there are others) specifically
intended for non-profits:

http://www.google.co...uttutorial.html

Google for non-profits

Checkout: Collect donations online and process them for free, with no
monthly, setup, or gateway fees Increase donations to your
organization with a streamlined checkout process that allows your
supporters to quickly and easily make online donations with a single
login.

Process online donations for free until 2009 and pay no monthly,
setup, or gateway fees.

Enhance data security with this safe online donation tool that
protects a donor's credit card number. Google Checkout lowers the
costs and risks associated with managing sensitive data.

1. Sign up for Google Checkout for Non-Profits. You will be asked to
provide basic information about your organization including name,
contact information, and Non-Profit Tax ID number.

2. Copy and paste Google Checkout donation buttons onto your website or blog.

3. Process donations by charging donors' credit or debit cards using
Google Checkout.

--
Jonathan Hinek
Cold Filter Forum

#28 Mind

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 02:44 PM

Thanks for the idea William. Will have to look into it. If it is free for non-profits it would make a nice adjunct to the Paypal account.

I understand Caliban's concerns about the fine details of charity. It does add a little time and legal complexity to Imminst's endeavors. I am sure this can be worked out for the benefit of all sides.

#29 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 04:08 PM

I just found this posted on cryonet. It resolves the issue of Imminst offering to provide a pay pal donation collection for the society of venturism. That issue seems resolved, through another organization.

X-Message-Number: 30971
From: "Nick Pavlica" <npavlica@live.com>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?O'Rights_Paypal_Option?=
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:47:46 -0400


As David Pizer mentioned earlier this week, PayPal can be very difficult to deal
with. However, after much effort, the Cryonics Society was able to secure a
working PayPal account where people can contribute in that manner, (in addition
to using their regular credit card accounts, etc.) Although the continuation of
the PayPal option is tenuous, it is currently operational on the Cryonics
Society website.


As specified on Cryonet Wednesday, I will match all contributions made on the
CryonicsSociety.org website through September, and will send a check to the
Venturists in the amount that is generated by the Cryonics Society during that
time period. (The contribution will come from my personal account, not from
Cryonics Society funds.)


So if you want to use your PaypPal account to contribute to the O'Rights fund,
this is a way you can do it and also be helping your Cryonics Society at the
same time.

Regards,
Nick Pavlica

#30 caliban

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 05:45 PM

I'm happy to see this issue on the road to resolution form your perspective.
I am still unclear whether the Venturists/ the Cryonics Society are happy to receive money for vitamin purchases?




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