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Deprenyl/Selegine Efficacy: Authenticity?


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#1 integral

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 06:32 PM


* Selegine authenticity?


... I recently ordered Selegiline tablets from Julab/Biolab, manufactured in Thailand at 5 mg dosage settings, for its documented uses as a nootropic, for longevity and enhancement of attention and focus.

Upon initial ingestion of a single 5 mg dose to test for potency, and duration of 60 minutes, no effect was noted. Following a timed 120 minute interval and no discernable subjective changes in wakefulness, attention or concentration, one more 5 mg tablet was ingested.

Three hours later to no discernible effect, an additional 10 mg was ingested. There were still no subjective effects. Finally, at six hours post-onset, 10 mg more were ingested. No effects were noted.

At these high dosage ranges -- 30 to 40 mg, subjective effects should be clearly noted after a period of nine hours. I have no tolerance or prior history of stimulant usage, so this should not be a factor in efficacy. I'm interested in learning if there is some misconception of the effects of this nootropic, or if the manufacturer may be supplying placebo pills in place of the actual formulation. Any insights would be appreciated ...

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#2 StrangeAeons

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 06:55 PM

* Selegine authenticity?


This looks like it might be a more appropriate topic for the Research & Suppliers subforum

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#3 brotherx

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 08:02 PM

You would get quite strong effects from 10mg! But you don't get these effects immediately. I can take some time until the dose becomes effective - due to the MAO Inhibition effect.
40mg of Selegiline would have strong negative results!

Have you taken the Julab Selegiline today? How many hours is your first ingestion ago?

Experience gained during the development of selegiline reveals that some individuals exposed to doses of 600 mg per day suffered severe hypotension and psychomotor agitation. Since the selective inhibition of MAO-B by selegiline is achieved only at doses recommended for the treatment of Parkinson's Disease (10 mg per day), overdoses are likely to cause significant inhibition of both MAO-A and MAO-B. Consequently the signs and symptoms of overdosage may resemble those observed with non-selective MAO inhibitors. Delays of up to 12 hours between the ingestion of selegiline and the appearance of signs of overdose may occur. Death has been reported following overdoses with non-selective MAO inhibitors. Signs and symptoms of overdose may include dizziness, faintness, irritability, hyperactivity, agitation, severe headache, hallucinations, hypertension, hypotension and vascular collapse, respiratory depression and failure, rapid and irregular pulse, cool clammy skin, diaphoresis, convulsions and coma.

Cheers

Alex

* Selegine authenticity?


... I recently ordered Selegiline tablets from Julab/Biolab, manufactured in Thailand at 5 mg dosage settings, for its documented uses as a nootropic, for longevity and enhancement of attention and focus.

Upon initial ingestion of a single 5 mg dose to test for potency, and duration of 60 minutes, no effect was noted. Following a timed 120 minute interval and no discernable subjective changes in wakefulness, attention or concentration, one more 5 mg tablet was ingested.

Three hours later to no discernible effect, an additional 10 mg was ingested. There were still no subjective effects. Finally, at six hours post-onset, 10 mg more were ingested. No effects were noted.

At these high dosage ranges -- 30 to 40 mg, subjective effects should be clearly noted after a period of nine hours. I have no tolerance or prior history of stimulant usage, so this should not be a factor in efficacy. I'm interested in learning if there is some misconception of the effects of this nootropic, or if the manufacturer may be supplying placebo pills in place of the actual formulation. Any insights would be appreciated ...



#4 integral

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 08:32 PM

* Twelve hours post-administration

... it's now been more than 12 hours post-administration, and no subjective cognitive, mental or physical effects have been observed, either primary or secondary side effects. This wasn't an impulsive decision, of course -- before receiving the Julab prescription, I first researched the maximum safe dosage, and waited several hours post-administration to test for response before ingesting a second 5 mg tablet. MedLine literature search referenced several medical studies which administered doses in range of 30 mg or more for use in treating depression. Thus, a 30 mg dose appears to be safe from review of the available literature.

The box appeared authentic, though I'm inclined to believe that the tablets aren't selegiline, as no reponse after more than twelve hours would indicate either low potency or placebo.


#5 brotherx

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 08:39 PM

Well - you should have felt something.
Wait until tomorrow - if you don't feel anything then - switch to another brand.

Cheers

Alex

* Twelve hours post-administration

... it's now been more than 12 hours post-administration, and no subjective cognitive, mental or physical effects have been observed, either primary or secondary side effects. This wasn't an impulsive decision, of course -- before receiving the Julab prescription, I first researched the maximum safe dosage, and waited several hours post-administration to test for response before ingesting a second 5 mg tablet. MedLine literature search referenced several medical studies which administered doses in range of 30 mg or more for use in treating depression. Thus, a 30 mg dose appears to be safe from review of the available literature.

The box appeared authentic, though I'm inclined to believe that the tablets aren't selegiline, as no reponse after more than twelve hours would indicate either low potency or placebo.



#6 StrangeAeons

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 10:35 PM

In case those drugs do work, I have an important warning for you:
Selegeline loses its MAO-B selectivity at dosages higher than 10mg daily. Dosages that high make it function like a classic MAOI, meaning that if you take anything with tyramine (aged cheeses and wines, for instance) in it you will go into profound hypertensive crisis. In case you have partaken of tyramine products while on the drug, then it's a dud... and consider yourself lucky that it is.

#7 integral

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 11:39 PM

* MAOI

... thanks for the heads-up. I was aware of this effect through prior research on the pharmacology of the compound, in which doses of up to 60 mg per day were administrated for treatment of depression, so I've taken care to avoid ingestion of foods containing tyramine as a preliminary precaution. The question as to its accuracy of contents as stated on the label thus remains an open question. I'll post back with an update after a few more days of continued administration at more conservative levels (2.5, 5, or 10mg). The beneficial cognitive benefits, if present, should manifest by then.

In case those drugs do work, I have an important warning for you:
Selegeline loses its MAO-B selectivity at dosages higher than 10mg daily. Dosages that high make it function like a classic MAOI, meaning that if you take anything with tyramine (aged cheeses and wines, for instance) in it you will go into profound hypertensive crisis. In case you have partaken of tyramine products while on the drug, then it's a dud... and consider yourself lucky that it is.



#8 brotherx

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 02:21 PM

I would not to recommend to go for levels up to 60mg.
This sounds very risky to me!
I wouldn't even go as high as 10mg.

Cheers

Alex

* MAOI

... thanks for the heads-up. I was aware of this effect through prior research on the pharmacology of the compound, in which doses of up to 60 mg per day were administrated for treatment of depression, so I've taken care to avoid ingestion of foods containing tyramine as a preliminary precaution. The question as to its accuracy of contents as stated on the label thus remains an open question. I'll post back with an update after a few more days of continued administration at more conservative levels (2.5, 5, or 10mg). The beneficial cognitive benefits, if present, should manifest by then.

In case those drugs do work, I have an important warning for you:
Selegeline loses its MAO-B selectivity at dosages higher than 10mg daily. Dosages that high make it function like a classic MAOI, meaning that if you take anything with tyramine (aged cheeses and wines, for instance) in it you will go into profound hypertensive crisis. In case you have partaken of tyramine products while on the drug, then it's a dud... and consider yourself lucky that it is.



#9 integral

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 07:26 PM

* 2.5, 5 mg dose/response curve

... Concurred. I'm planning to post back with an update after a few more days of continued administration at more conservative levels (2.5, 5, or 10mg). The beneficial cognitive benefits, if present, should manifest by then. At that point I'll know if the contents are indeed selegine or placebo.


I would not to recommend to go for levels up to 60mg.
This sounds very risky to me!
I wouldn't even go as high as 10mg.

Cheers

Alex



#10 mikeinnaples

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 04:16 PM

I notice 1-2mg sublingual within 15-20 minutes.

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#11 integral

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 05:08 PM

* Follow-up: approx. four weeks

... For this particular tablet formulation of selegiline, several days were required before a discernable effect was manifest. Perhaps sublingual formulations are more effective and immediate. However, after approximately two to three weeks of varied titration, .5 to .75 mg / twice a week is in the optimal range for life-extension and cognitive enhancement. This may be on the low end, but as in many U-shaped response curves, less is more. DukeNukum's regimen is a good starter in this regard.

 Thanks for the many words of advice :)



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